The "S" Does Still Stand For "Service"

[soberups]

Interesting take. I agree adjusting the time card would get the driver paid for the work. But that would be an integrity issue, changing the time card would be saying that driver did something he did not. So this is a level of dishonesty from management you are ok with? .....I would have made service, and offered to add the time onto my drivers time card. But then, as Sober has pointed out to me, I am a member of UPS management, and there for a dishonest crook. So be it.

Its not at all dishonest if you are transparent about it.

We can agree that making service on the package is the right choice. We can also agree that the contract prohibits management from doing bargaining unit work. So if the intent of the company is to honor the contract and pay an hourly for the time spent working by the sup, then there is no reason to go thru the formality of filing a grievance. If I recall correctly, there is an actual pay code for "grievance pay" on the timecard that could be used to pay the driver involved the appropriate rate. If all parties involved agree that payment should be made, adjusting the timecard would not be an integrity issue. And as for the last sentence of your post...I have stated on numerous occasions that 95 to 99% of UPS management people are ethical and honest, and if you dont believe me I can find the posts for you to read yourself.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

...or we could just add 30 minutes to his punch out time, which is how long it would have taken him to drive from the center, deliver the pkg and drive back.

 

[brownIEman]

I have stated on numerous occasions that 95 to 99% of UPS management people are ethical and honest, and if you dont believe me I can find the posts for you to read yourself.

Well, you could do that and I could read them, but they would contradict this one...

If you in management were truly held to the same standards that we hourlies are, none of you would still be employed.

So which should I take as your true opinion?

 

[stevetheupsguy]

I suggest no one alters anyone's time card. .

I agree

You guys aren't getting it. The zip code on the pkg is not one of our Saturday zip codes so the pkg was brought back to the center to be held until Monday. The driver did not even see this one. The Saturday sup calls to try to make alternate delivery arrangements on all out of area Saturday NDA's. Most of the consignees will either come pick them up or tell us to deliver them on Monday. The supervisor offered to drop this one off on her way home.

If the pkg was not supposed to be delivered to that area on Saturday, why did the supe feel it was her duty to go against the rule? Our center gets Mondays NDA's on Saturday, should our supe take it upon theirself to deliver those, as well? There's a reason why pkgs are not delivered to that zip code on Saturday, if your supe has a problem with that, maybe she should contact her superiors, to have the rule changed.

Your right upstate, the customer did not mess up. The Saturday air supervisor did the right thing. Who knows she may have already gave the time to the Sat. air driver before he went home.

The supe only did the right thing, if that area was deliverable on Saturday. Since it wasn't, she acted improperly.

Interesting take. I agree adjusting the time card would get the driver paid for the work. But that would be an integrity issue, changing the time card would be saying that driver did something he did not. So this is a level of dishonesty from management you are ok with?
The right thing for her to do per the contract would have been to call that driver or another and ask if they wanted to come in and run it. They would have told her she was nuts and refused. I have run enough saturday air operations to feel quite confident of this. At that point the only correct thing she could have done to follow the contract would be to leave the package for Monday. By following the contract to the letter, we would have failed this customer.
I would have made service, and offered to add the time onto my drivers time card. But then, as Sober has pointed out to me, I am a member of UPS management, and there for a dishonest crook. So be it.

Thanks for the story Upstate...

I agree about the integrity of this situation, but your presumption of what said driver would say when called in/back, is just that, a presumption. That's why there is a contract, so that when this situation arises, you know YOU MUST call a driver.

You are overreacting.... as long as the union is aware of who and why the money is being paid, the grievance is avoided altogether and everyone is fine with it. No one is "altering" anything to stiff the employee, it is the cover-up and mis-management dishonesty that is the problem and needs to be addressed.

Also honestly, I forget the Art 40 language verbatim sad to say, but is it true a package mis-routed or "area not serviced on saturday" does not qualify as Acts of God. Therefore a union person should have delivered the package and if not then the union should be paid for that time worked.

True!

Its not at all dishonest if you are transparent about it.

We can agree that making service on the package is the right choice. We can also agree that the contract prohibits management from doing bargaining unit work. So if the intent of the company is to honor the contract and pay an hourly for the time spent working by the sup, then there is no reason to go thru the formality of filing a grievance. If I recall correctly, there is an actual pay code for "grievance pay" on the timecard that could be used to pay the driver involved the appropriate rate. If all parties involved agree that payment should be made, adjusting the timecard would not be an integrity issue. And as for the last sentence of your post...I have stated on numerous occasions that 95 to 99% of UPS management people are ethical and honest, and if you dont believe me I can find the posts for you to read yourself.

Agreed!

Well, you could do that and I could read them, but they would contradict this one...If you in management were truly held to the same standards that we hourlies are, none of you would still be employed



So which should I take as your true opinion?

There you go again trying to spin the words in your favor. These are totally different statements. I don't see where mgmt being held to the same standard, is calling ALL mgmt schmucks (dishonest).

 

[brownIEman]

I agree about the integrity of this situation, but your presumption of what said driver would say when called in/back, is just that, a presumption. That's why there is a contract, so that when this situation arises, you know YOU MUST call a driver.

You are missing my point. Fine, maybe a driver would come in. But if no driver available agreed to, then, at that point, the only action permitted by the letter of the contract leaves the customer dissatisfied. Agreed?

There you go again trying to spin the words in your favor. These are totally different statements. I don't see where mgmt being held to the same standard, is calling ALL mgmt schmucks (dishonest).

Drivers are held to the standard of behaving honestly. The only practical way to remove a driver from employment is if they do something illegal or dishonest. Sober said if management were held to that standard, NOT ONE would be employed. How are you possibly interpreting that as him not calling ALL of us crooks? Seriously, I am not trying to twist words, I am just reading them.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

You are missing my point. Fine, maybe a driver would come in. But if no driver available agreed to, then, at that point, the only action permitted by the letter of the contract leaves the customer dissatisfied. Agreed?




Drivers are held to the standard of behaving honestly. The only practical way to remove a driver from employment is if they do something illegal or dishonest. Sober said if management were held to that standard, NOT ONE would be employed. How are you possibly interpreting that as him not calling ALL of us crooks? Seriously, I am not trying to twist words, I am just reading them.

The customer wouldn't be dissatisfied, because we don't service that area on that particular day.

The other part, I'm done with. It sounds like you're looking for a knock em down, drag em out, and I think my point has been made.

 

[DS]

Upstate,I'm not trying to take away from the positive aspect of your thread.
I for one,am sincerely happy for a job well done.I don't care who made the delivery.
The sad reality of it is that this is a rarity with all the cutbacks.
You are lucky to work in a facility that gives your supervisors the time to offer that little bit of "S" that you mentioned.After all, ups is a big company and each hub/center is run quite differently.
The switch from customer service to production,started when they went public.
The truth is,that ups as a whole,no longer provides the service they once did.

DZ helped me create this monument to our old friend.

 

[Just Lurking]

Did the supervisor use DOT placard vehicle to deliver the package? Was the supervisor DOT qualified to drive said DOt placard vehicle? Both would be violations of federal law including TSA regulation regarding parcels that could use aircraft. Just saying.

 

[DS]

Did the supervisor use DOT placard vehicle to deliver the package? Was the supervisor DOT qualified to drive said DOt placard vehicle? Both would be violations of federal law including TSA regulation regarding parcels that could use aircraft. Just saying.

It was frikkin baseball jerseys man....no planes required just sayin'

 

[soberups]

Drivers are held to the standard of behaving honestly. The only practical way to remove a driver from employment is if they do something illegal or dishonest. Sober said if management were held to that standard, NOT ONE would be employed. How are you possibly interpreting that as him not calling ALL of us crooks? Seriously, I am not trying to twist words, I am just reading them.

The thread that you are quoting involved performance standards, not dishonesty.

What I meant....was that if management were held to the same standards of performance ( missed packages, clerical errors, misdeliveries, etc.) that the company tries to hold its drivers to, that none of you guys would still be employed.

As a driver, If I misdeliver 2 packages per day, every day...I will be issued a warning letter within a few days, suspended within a week or two, and terminated soon after if I do not immediately correct my problem.

But are similar consequences imposed upon the IE man who screws up multiple timestudies.... or the operations manager who fails to accurately forecast volume to the extent that the dispatch fails and dozens if not hundreds of stops are missed? No.

Nowhere in the thread you are quoting is willful dishonesty discussed, and nowhere in the thread do I make the claim that "all management are crooks". I am referring only to the blatant double standard that exists at UPS regarding personal responsibility for mistakes. As a management person, you can sweep them under the rug or shift the responsibility for them to another part of the operation. As an hourly, I can't.

 

[soberups]

You are missing my point. Fine, maybe a driver would come in. But if no driver available agreed to, then, at that point, the only action permitted by the letter of the contract leaves the customer dissatisfied. Agreed?

No.

If an available driver doesnt "agree" to come in, then as a management person you instruct him to come in. This isnt a democracy. You are running a business. He chose to sign up for Saturday work and be on call, so he will report for work when instructed to do so.

If for whatever reason the employee cannot or will not come back into work when instructed to do so, and no other employees are available, then under Article 10 of the National Master agreement the supervisor would in fact be allowed to make service on the package himself if necessary.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

No.

If an available driver doesnt "agree" to come in, then as a management person you instruct him to come in. This isnt a democracy. You are running a business. He chose to sign up for Saturday work and be on call, so he will report for work when instructed to do so.

If for whatever reason the employee cannot or will not come back into work when instructed to do so, and no other employees are available, then under Article 10 of the National Master agreement the supervisor would in fact be allowed to make service on the package himself if necessary.

Lord knows the average Saturday sup would not exhaust a call-in list for one exception package. That one hour of work for one package would throw their Saturday numbers into the crapper, paid hours and staffing, esp a tiny operation like the one Upstate works in. After all, this is a numbers based operation where nothing else matters except what can be mathematically derived, formulated and demonstrated within a paper trail.

People can say "heartfelt customer service, what a feel good story!" however had the sup declined to delivery the pkg himself/herself, they would have been reamed and out of a job the following Monday for not following direct orders. I'm sure it wasn't done out of the goodness of their heart.

 

[old levi's]

Upstate, see what you started! No more feel good stories.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

kumbaya, Thread Killer!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Lord knows the average Saturday sup would not exhaust a call-in list for one exception package. That one hour of work for one package would throw their Saturday numbers into the crapper, paid hours and staffing, esp a tiny operation like the one Upstate works in. After all, this is a numbers based operation where nothing else matters except what can be mathematically derived, formulated and demonstrated within a paper trail.

People can say "heartfelt customer service, what a feel good story!" however had the sup declined to delivery the pkg himself/herself, they would have been reamed and out of a job the following Monday for not following direct orders. I'm sure it wasn't done out of the goodness of their heart.

Actually, the sup was not "ordered" to do anything. She assessed the situation and did what she felt was the right thing for the customer. I would be surprised if the center manager even knows about it.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Did the supervisor use DOT placard vehicle to deliver the package? Was the supervisor DOT qualified to drive said DOt placard vehicle? Both would be violations of federal law including TSA regulation regarding parcels that could use aircraft. Just saying.

She drove her personal vehicle as she was going home right after dropping off the pkg. This is no different from one of us being asked to run off a LIB on the way home and having our timecard adjusted.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

If the pkg was not supposed to be delivered to that area on Saturday, why did the supe feel it was her duty to go against the rule? Our center gets Mondays NDA's on Saturday, should our supe take it upon theirself to deliver those, as well? There's a reason why pkgs are not delivered to that zip code on Saturday, if your supe has a problem with that, maybe she should contact her superiors, to have the rule changed.

It's called customer service.

When I work the occasional Saturday I will try to deliver all of the NDA for a particular address, if possible. I can recall one Saturday when I had 1 Saturday NDA and 16 large NDA for Best Buy. Rather than work around the 16 I delivered all 17 at the same time. The customer appreciated this and the mall driver did not have to deal with those on Monday.

The supe only did the right thing, if that area was deliverable on Saturday. Since it wasn't, she acted improperly.

It's called customer service.

I agree about the integrity of this situation, but your presumption of what said driver would say when called in/back, is just that, a presumption. That's why there is a contract, so that when this situation arises, you know YOU MUST call a driver.

We have already agreed that his timecard should be adjusted (30 minutes) and I will mention this to my center manager when I relay this story to him Monday morning.

I find it ironic that some of you here who complain about the loss of customer service due to the production push and the poor dispatching are also complaining when a supervisor goes out of her way to take care of the customer. Crystal didn't have to do this. She could have told the customer what Steve said--"we don't deliver to your zip code on Saturday--you'll get it on Monday and you'll like it"--but she knew that the customer paid a premium to get this package on Saturday, knew that he needed it on Saturday, and made the decision to do the right thing (on Saturday).

One thing that has not been mentioned is the way that the shipper dropped the ball on this one. When the consignee ordered this and requested Saturday delivery, the shipper could/should have confirmed that the destination zip was one that we serviced on Saturday. When he realized that it wasn't, he could/should have relayed that to the consignee who then would have used an alternate address which we do deliver to or had it sent to the center and picked it up there (on Saturday). The consignee works in the service department at a local car dealer which is one of our Saturday zip codes and would have had it sent there as he was working there yesterday.

Steve, I would say that I am surprised at your response but that would be a lie. Your current situation has caused you to drop the ball when it comes to taking care of the customer. Dave.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

No.

If an available driver doesnt "agree" to come in, then as a management person you instruct him to come in. This isnt a democracy. You are running a business. He chose to sign up for Saturday work and be on call, so he will report for work when instructed to do so.

If for whatever reason the employee cannot or will not come back into work when instructed to do so, and no other employees are available, then under Article 10 of the National Master agreement the supervisor would in fact be allowed to make service on the package himself if necessary.

Let's not forget that the area was NOT a Saturday delivery area.

If the pkg was not supposed to be delivered to that area on Saturday, why did the supe feel it was her duty to go against the rule? Our center gets Mondays NDA's on Saturday, should our supe take it upon theirself to deliver those, as well? There's a reason why pkgs are not delivered to that zip code on Saturday, if your supe has a problem with that, maybe she should contact her superiors, to have the rule changed.

It's called customer service.It's also called, breaking the rules.

When I work the occasional Saturday I will try to deliver all of the NDA for a particular address, if possible. I can recall one Saturday when I had 1 Saturday NDA and 16 large NDA for Best Buy. Rather than work around the 16 I delivered all 17 at the same time. The customer appreciated this and the mall driver did not have to deal with those on Monday.

The supe only did the right thing, if that area was deliverable on Saturday. Since it wasn't, she acted improperly.

It's called customer service.It's also called, breaking the rules.



I agree about the integrity of this situation, but your presumption of what said driver would say when called in/back, is just that, a presumption. That's why there is a contract, so that when this situation arises, you know YOU MUST call a driver.

We have already agreed that his timecard should be adjusted (30 minutes) and I will mention this to my center manager when I relay this story to him Monday morning.I have a problem with the timecard adjustment. I think there may be an integrity issue. I mean, the driver did not work those hours, did they? I believe a grievance would have to be filed in order for the driver to be paid. If you want to keep things out in the open, I would also inform the shop steward of the situation, this way the center manager and shop steward can hash this out.

I find it ironic that some of you here who complain about the loss of customer service due to the production push and the poor dispatching are also complaining when a supervisor goes out of her way to take care of the customer. Crystal didn't have to do this. She could have told the customer what Steve said--"we don't deliver to your zip code on Saturday--you'll get it on Monday and you'll like it"--but she knew that the customer paid a premium to get this package on Saturday, knew that he needed it on Saturday, and made the decision to do the right thing (on Saturday).

One thing that has not been mentioned is the way that the shipper dropped the ball on this one. When the consignee ordered this and requested Saturday delivery, the shipper could/should have confirmed that the destination zip was one that we serviced on Saturday. When he realized that it wasn't, he could/should have relayed that to the consignee who then would have used an alternate address which we do deliver to or had it sent to the center and picked it up there (on Saturday). The consignee works in the service department at a local car dealer which is one of our Saturday zip codes and would have had it sent there as he was working there yesterday.

Steve, I would say that I am surprised at your response but that would be a lie. Your current situation has caused you to drop the ball when it comes to taking care of the customer. Dave.

Dave, my current situation does not skew my thinking or performance. I come to work, deliver/pick up the pkgs, and go home. I do double time on those days that I find it necessary, still deliveringpicking up ALL the pkgs. If I worked on Saturday, I would NOT deliver to a non Saturday delivery location for any reason. I don't remember you saying if the consignee called about the pkg or not, but am assuming they did not. The supe in question stepped over the boundary on this one, customer service, or not.

Your idea that my "current situation" is causing me to make poor decisions is absurd. I am, who I am.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Let's not forget that the area was NOT a Saturday delivery area.

We have already discussed this.

Dave, my current situation does not skew my thinking or performance. I come to work, deliver/pick up the pkgs, and go home. I do double time on those days that I find it necessary, still deliveringpicking up ALL the pkgs. If I worked on Saturday, I would NOT deliver to a non Saturday delivery location for any reason. I don't remember you saying if the consignee called about the pkg or not, but am assuming they did not. The supe in question stepped over the boundary on this one, customer service, or not.

The Saturday sup calls all of the out of area Saturday NDA's (there are usually less than 10 as we are a small center). She meets the driver at the airport, they offload and then sort the pkgs, putting any Saturdays off to the side. They then sort the Saturdays and she takes the out of areas back to the center and the driver starts delivering. She will sort through the out of area Saturdays and try to make alternate delivery arrangements when possible. Now, had she called this customer from the airport, he would have asked her to have the driver deliver his pkg to the car dealership that he was working at and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Your idea that my "current situation" is causing me to make poor decisions is absurd. I am, who I am.

You have already stated that there are days when you rush through your pickups and deliveries so that you can spend time with your girls. Your focus on your personal life has indeed clouded your judgement.

 

[menotyou]

I have worked too many Saturdays to count. I, also, happen to live in an area that is NOT serviced on Saturday's. It is quite annoying to be able to order and pay for a saturday delivery, yet, when the package gets to the center it gets an 'out of area' sticker on it and I don't see it til Monday.

As a driver, if the package is obviously flowers or something like that, I delivered it no matter the heat I would get on Tuesday(Scheduled Tue. thru Sat.).

I am glad the jerseys got to their destination. That is the most important part. But, here goes the joe union in me. I have witnessed, at the Syracuse Gateway, their center manager shuttling a package south because she "wasn't going to take the heat for paying someone to do it". Heard her say it, along with their steward and a few others that were qualified to drive. It was grieved.

I think a simple card adjustment is a great idea. No fuss, no muss. If it would only be that easy to get along. Our customers would most certainly benefit.