The secrecy of Prayer...?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by The Other Side, Feb 1, 2012.

  1. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Something that has been overlooked in the news cycles this week, was an action by the House speaker of Kansas, Mike Oneal. What I didnt know, was that a "secret prayer" has been floating around by right wing religious people and groups. That prayer, has been printed on bumper stickers and tshirts. I have personally seen these things and had NO IDEA what they meant.

    First, lets start with Mike Oneal. He used a prayer and modified that prayer to include the president, michele and his children. The prayer ( psalm 109:8) is one many people who are NOT truly knowledgeable about. Oneal, used the prayer first in his church where the congregation clapped, and then, in an email, forwarded the email to many of his friends until one friend released the email to the media.

    Kansas Speaker Mike O'Neal's prayer for President Obama's Death | Manhattan Diary | IrishCentral

    In part, the prayer (psalm 109:8) says this:

    "When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
    Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
    Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
    Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
    Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labor.
    Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children."

    Using this prayer CLEARLY calls for the presidents death, and harm to his family. But the secret is out. Now all those bumper stickers that have been seen, are now exposed as also calling for the presidents death and eventual harm to his family.


    This is wrong. Oneal who initially refused to apologize to the president, has done so, but still refuses to resign as called for by many citizens of Kansas.

    The use of religious prayers should never be mis used to suit a political purpose.


  2. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    " The use of religious prayers should never be mis used to suit a political purpose."
    Should I issue a fatwā upon him ?
  3. over9five

    over9five Senior Member Staff Member

    That is really weird. Actually you'd have to be a pathetic.....person.... to have that on your car.
  4. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    We should always remember we have the right to free speech. We should never use that speech to wish any harm.
    We should be better that that.

    The President is our leader. No matter how you will vote in the upcoming election, respect needs to be shown to out leader. His family should be off-limits. Period. That prayer is sick.
  5. texan

    texan Well-Known Member

    Second time in 24 hours that I feel compelled to share my thoughts in this area. Others will think this is all I post.

    For followers of Jesus / Yeshua

    The Apostle Paul was inspired to write by the Holy Spirit in the Epistle of Timothy 1 2:1-4
    I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and
    for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable
    in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    Now I tell on myself. Have I followed this instruction. Some
    But I also have expressed other thoughts not in line with this.

    Is the above movement wrong? In my opinion yes.

    Do I desire and pray the current President be re elected? no

    Do I pray His demise or his family's misfoutune? No

    Would I join those who pray this pslam. No

  6. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    Simply sad and telling of the depths of hatred toward the president. I wonder how many enjoy the "secret"? Actually hating the president but so twisted (conflicted?) that they have to dress it up in scripture to feel right about it.
  7. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    I am sure many of you have seen these stickers on cars or trucks depending on your location, and they appear benign so probably, many (like myself) never gave it any thought. Its really sad that a secret prayer against our president exists in our societyand that people would actually support it.

    Give it some thought next time you see one on a car or truck.


  8. over9five

    over9five Senior Member Staff Member

    Exactly. I have never seen one of those stickers, but if I had I certainly would have no idea of the rest of the story (Psalm). Even just the "Let his days be few" part that IS on the sticker is a little much.
  9. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member

    Not much of a secret if you found out about it.
  10. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    I admit that this is the first I have seen this and certainly am not in favor of the whole premise. I must say though that the bumper sticker was more about his time in office to be limited and someone else taking the office. I really doubt that anyone involve with the email, sticker or even Mike Oneal was prying for the presidents death or misfortune to his children. IMO that thinking is a stretch of the intent.
  11. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    I agree with the sentiment that the President needs to be replaced. It would serve the country well if Obama has a lot more free time on his hands after Jan. 20 of 2013 when he is back at his residence in Chicago then in the white house. With that being said claiming to desire death upon the President and or his family is going way beyond the intent of the bumper sticker as trpnkl pointed out.

    Now TOS you claim that prayer should not be used to call for the death of any individual, and I agree fully with that sentiment, but will you show us that your outrage isn't as selective as I believe it is and denounce those who were praying for the death of Chris Christie and George W. Bush?
  12. over9five

    over9five Senior Member Staff Member

    I will side with TOS on this one.

    If you've gone to the trouble to print a bumper sticker with the Psalm number on it AND a part quoted, then you know damn well what the rest of the Psalm says.

    As soon as you've read the whole Psalm, you know it doesn't mean limiting his time in office.

    It's pretty disgusting IMO.
  13. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    Then a bumper sticker saying "Vote Obama To Exit" would suffice. (I know. "Exit" is weak but I had to spell "VOTE".
  14. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    trplnkl has it right, this bumper sticker is only quoting verse 8 from a 31 verse Psalm. My NIV Life Application Bible has "May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership". So I think that the bumper sticker is saying that Obama should be defeated in the next election and a better leader take his place.

    That whole Psalm is dealing with David praying to God to be swift in his promised judgement of evil people. As King, David was dealing with a lot of enemies at that time. He was asking God to take care of them, so he wouldn't have to. This is another case of the Bible being taken out of context, this bumper sticker is only quoting one verse, not the whole Psalm.
  15. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    I think it funny that in other cases where many, many, many contradictions (sometimes horrible and appear immoral) are pointed out in the bible, the apologist accusation is that you can't cherry pick a single verse to use to say what you want it to say. Now the apologists come out of the woodwork to do the very same thing they argue others can't and then twist the original intent to fit their own contemporary uses. Many of the teachings of Jesus alone would be enough to slam Obama but the problem is Obama's not the only one ignoring those teachings. Case in point when Ron Paul suggested the idea of the golden rule in one of the biggest bible thumping states in the nation and he got boo'd. Speaks volumes of the hypocrite christians and then they call atheists incapable of morality. "Depart from me as I never knew you" seems to be coming to mind about now!

    Here is the entire NIV version of Psalm 109 but a very important point to remember in understanding the writer's intent because in the times that the Psalms were contemporary, King's or leaders were such for life and the only method of removal was death. Let us also make note of the ill desires also wished upon the leader's family and fortune. And god is a god of love who divinely inspired such requests to be made in order to write ancient book?

    I'd be hugely impressed had the desires of Psalm 109 been, "Oh Lord, cause my enemy to see the ways of his error. Cause my enemy to change and be my friend and as a result prosper greatly in fortune and in strong family." What would send greater shockwaves and have far greatly effect to life longterm, ill fortune of a leader or a complete philosophical seachange in thinking and method of governance?

    "IF" the intent of the bumper sticker was not such an extreme message, then the originator of the bumper sticker might seriously rethink using the utterances of late bronze age or early iron age writings in the first place!
  16. pickup

    pickup Well-Known Member

    I don't know about you, but I am glad I became aware of this bible psalm that can be a channel of my hatred towards my enemies and yet still be in accordance with the bible and thus 100 percent sanctioned by the Big Guy upstairs. Thanks God.

    With a little editing or deletion, this can be the perfect psalm to recite when thinking about your new center manager who is making your life hell. No you don't have wish him dead or his children fatherless . But the time in his office being short, What's wrong with that ? And how many of you wish that condition on certain people in your workplace???

    And hey it is a psalm, it can even be set to music. Cool!
  17. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    ANy extrapolation of a sentence from a Psalm is NOT CHRISTIAN. To say that a person would extrapolate one sentence takes away from the original intent of the bible and if the intention is to only talk about days being numbered in office, why not just say that instead of trying to hitch a ride on a bible verse?


  18. pickup

    pickup Well-Known Member

    Christian, Smisthen, I just wanna smite my enemies. .
  19. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    While I do not disagree with your stated concept in THIS post, it's hardly the point in your opening post.
    As I said earlier, I agree with the sentiment of the bumper sticker, I'm not wild about the use of the Bible in this manner.
  20. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    You are right that the same message could be delivered by saying "Vote Obama To Exit", however it might lack the impact that the person creating was going for.
    BTW, I didn't have to spell Vote at all, I C&P from your post.