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The Straight Truth About the Bush Economy
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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 85346" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Personally, I don't think Bush is better or worse than most. Looking back through time and comments made about various Presidents at their time, President Bush seems about average IMO. Bush has however advanced the concept of the executive powers being beyond challenge in times of war but he's not the first. Lincoln started much of the game from suspending Habius Corpus to other acts during his tenure that quite frankly leaves one to believe he governed by force of martial law. Wilson added to the misery and then FDR took gov't to a whole new level. Bush is really a "Bush Leaguer" (some pun intended) when it comes to these guys and changing the face of executive powers. Couple of truths you mentioned is the fact the economy wasn't turning bad, it had already turned bad in the fact the down cycle had already started when Bush took office. Truth is economics are cyclical by nature and a down period whether we like it or not is a natural occurrance. Without 9/11 my guess is the economy would have turned upward much quicker but having said that IMO the Bush economy didn't show near the effects that I remember seeing during the Carter years and then in the early Reagan years. It just seems worst now because the political divisions IMO are vastly greater now and both side exploit to their advantage any edge they might find. </p><p> </p><p>Bush and Carter IMO share a lot in common. It's been the people around them that have done the most damage and not the individual President himself and this gets to the real cruks of the issue. The President catches all the heat because we, being human, like to assign blame to the most elementary of causes, in this case the single solitary figure known as The President. Now some of that is founded but you also have to assign blame across the much wider plane known as gov't. Problem again, we like specifics, we like easy answers and easy questions so it's just much easier to blame the single person instead of the much broader organization of gov't. </p><p> </p><p>The Katrina situation was IMO a perfect example of total gov't failure across the board from top to bottom but we want to see it not in that light but rather we want to personify it by totally blaming Bush or the Mayor or the Governor rather than stepping back and realizing and being realistic to ourselves and just accept that a massive public entity who in truth doesn't do a good job. They aren't good at delivering the mail or educating children or for that fact is so shortsided that they would assist with all their being to building an economy and society around an energy source like oil that is shrinking and more and more of it is controlled by people who quite frankly don't give a d#mn about us and now find themselves scrambling for alternatives and the push is towards a singluarity known as hydrogen which in itself has problems. </p><p> </p><p>Do I believe Bush is the cause to all that ails us? Nope. Like you, I'm very disappointed in that he's walked away from the fiscal principles of a true conservative but I never voted for the man because I never believed he had those principles to begin with. At the same time I also don't believe he's the 666 anti-christ either. You know I jokingly say sometimes that every day Al Gore hits his knees and thanks God for the Supreme Court and sez, "Lord, thank you for saving me from having to face that mess!" LOL! If I were him I'm making the same prayer. In other words, I'm not convinced many of the effects Bush saw would not have happened had the 2000' election been different but how Gore would have handled that is open to speculation and that opinion will be driven by one's political opinion or affliation. With all due respect to others, I do believe we would have had war in Iraq at some point because the same saber rattling was happening prior to 2000' and it was just a matter of time. If for nothing more than to save the USA from continuing to dump large sums of money to police Saddam in the no-fly zone, we would have removed him via the war powers so that money could be freed up domestically for saving pensions, social security or some other issue that needs addressing. </p><p> </p><p>Bottomline Tie, I agree, to blame Bush for all ails is totally wrong but that is the nature of the beast these days when you sit in that office. What the American people need to do is look beyond at the big picture and realize the true fault lies in the total gov't itself. One of the shortcomings of UPS which I do believe in time will come to harm the company is the thinking we can only have the experts in the theorectical run this company. I'm speaking of the fact that at one time everyone in UPS who rose up through the ranks came from the ranks of doing the job itself of loading, sorting, driving. Now that is not the case and you have folks making decisions about how the company should operate on a day to day basis by folks in many cases who have never worked loading ,sorting and driving and have no clue as to what the jobs really are. Same is true of gov't. The vast majority of those setting policy in Washington have never worked a real job or dealt with a real life and yet they rely of various political theories to set policy and law that would tell the rest of us how to live, work and play. Until we return to the concepts of limited gov't to where the citizen leaders can rise from among us, like UPS, we will continue to flounder and never really achieve the very best of what we really could if we'd just take a few steps and draw from the past.</p><p> </p><p>Here's you a little something released by the Associated Press yesterday on the porkbarrel spending of our Congress. This is all on Congress IMO but at the same time we have a President who is not willing to weiled the weapon of veto either. </p><p><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,190745,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,190745,00.html</a></p><p> </p><p>Also here's an interesting tidbit from the article IMO. </p><p> </p><p><span style="color: red">"Earmarks have blossomed under GOP control of Congress. Former Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-Ga., advocated the practice to help cement GOP majorities."</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">So much for the principles of the so-called Republican revolution and cutting the size and scope of gov't! Newt ain't what he seems folks and take it from someone who's seen this guy up close since he began his political career back in the 70's and had him for a Congressman. Nope, never voted for the man thanks in many ways because of the sage advice from the late Congressman Larry McDonald who knew about Newt's true colors all to well!</span></p><p> </p><p>You know, where is Susie....uh Tyrone....uh whatever the name of the day is!<img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/group1/lol.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Lol :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 85346, member: 2189"] Personally, I don't think Bush is better or worse than most. Looking back through time and comments made about various Presidents at their time, President Bush seems about average IMO. Bush has however advanced the concept of the executive powers being beyond challenge in times of war but he's not the first. Lincoln started much of the game from suspending Habius Corpus to other acts during his tenure that quite frankly leaves one to believe he governed by force of martial law. Wilson added to the misery and then FDR took gov't to a whole new level. Bush is really a "Bush Leaguer" (some pun intended) when it comes to these guys and changing the face of executive powers. Couple of truths you mentioned is the fact the economy wasn't turning bad, it had already turned bad in the fact the down cycle had already started when Bush took office. Truth is economics are cyclical by nature and a down period whether we like it or not is a natural occurrance. Without 9/11 my guess is the economy would have turned upward much quicker but having said that IMO the Bush economy didn't show near the effects that I remember seeing during the Carter years and then in the early Reagan years. It just seems worst now because the political divisions IMO are vastly greater now and both side exploit to their advantage any edge they might find. Bush and Carter IMO share a lot in common. It's been the people around them that have done the most damage and not the individual President himself and this gets to the real cruks of the issue. The President catches all the heat because we, being human, like to assign blame to the most elementary of causes, in this case the single solitary figure known as The President. Now some of that is founded but you also have to assign blame across the much wider plane known as gov't. Problem again, we like specifics, we like easy answers and easy questions so it's just much easier to blame the single person instead of the much broader organization of gov't. The Katrina situation was IMO a perfect example of total gov't failure across the board from top to bottom but we want to see it not in that light but rather we want to personify it by totally blaming Bush or the Mayor or the Governor rather than stepping back and realizing and being realistic to ourselves and just accept that a massive public entity who in truth doesn't do a good job. They aren't good at delivering the mail or educating children or for that fact is so shortsided that they would assist with all their being to building an economy and society around an energy source like oil that is shrinking and more and more of it is controlled by people who quite frankly don't give a d#mn about us and now find themselves scrambling for alternatives and the push is towards a singluarity known as hydrogen which in itself has problems. Do I believe Bush is the cause to all that ails us? Nope. Like you, I'm very disappointed in that he's walked away from the fiscal principles of a true conservative but I never voted for the man because I never believed he had those principles to begin with. At the same time I also don't believe he's the 666 anti-christ either. You know I jokingly say sometimes that every day Al Gore hits his knees and thanks God for the Supreme Court and sez, "Lord, thank you for saving me from having to face that mess!" LOL! If I were him I'm making the same prayer. In other words, I'm not convinced many of the effects Bush saw would not have happened had the 2000' election been different but how Gore would have handled that is open to speculation and that opinion will be driven by one's political opinion or affliation. With all due respect to others, I do believe we would have had war in Iraq at some point because the same saber rattling was happening prior to 2000' and it was just a matter of time. If for nothing more than to save the USA from continuing to dump large sums of money to police Saddam in the no-fly zone, we would have removed him via the war powers so that money could be freed up domestically for saving pensions, social security or some other issue that needs addressing. Bottomline Tie, I agree, to blame Bush for all ails is totally wrong but that is the nature of the beast these days when you sit in that office. What the American people need to do is look beyond at the big picture and realize the true fault lies in the total gov't itself. One of the shortcomings of UPS which I do believe in time will come to harm the company is the thinking we can only have the experts in the theorectical run this company. I'm speaking of the fact that at one time everyone in UPS who rose up through the ranks came from the ranks of doing the job itself of loading, sorting, driving. Now that is not the case and you have folks making decisions about how the company should operate on a day to day basis by folks in many cases who have never worked loading ,sorting and driving and have no clue as to what the jobs really are. Same is true of gov't. The vast majority of those setting policy in Washington have never worked a real job or dealt with a real life and yet they rely of various political theories to set policy and law that would tell the rest of us how to live, work and play. Until we return to the concepts of limited gov't to where the citizen leaders can rise from among us, like UPS, we will continue to flounder and never really achieve the very best of what we really could if we'd just take a few steps and draw from the past. Here's you a little something released by the Associated Press yesterday on the porkbarrel spending of our Congress. This is all on Congress IMO but at the same time we have a President who is not willing to weiled the weapon of veto either. [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,190745,00.html"]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,190745,00.html[/URL] Also here's an interesting tidbit from the article IMO. [COLOR=red]"Earmarks have blossomed under GOP control of Congress. Former Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-Ga., advocated the practice to help cement GOP majorities."[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]So much for the principles of the so-called Republican revolution and cutting the size and scope of gov't! Newt ain't what he seems folks and take it from someone who's seen this guy up close since he began his political career back in the 70's and had him for a Congressman. Nope, never voted for the man thanks in many ways because of the sage advice from the late Congressman Larry McDonald who knew about Newt's true colors all to well![/COLOR] [COLOR=red][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/COLOR] You know, where is Susie....uh Tyrone....uh whatever the name of the day is!:lol: [/QUOTE]
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