The strike that was

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
705

I think you are missing a big point here. You claim only the company and the union can prevent a strike. What about you? Personally?

Now look at how many more tens of thousand of ftime jobs that were created from this strike. In chicago back in the middle 90s it was a 7 to 8 year wait to go fulltime afer the strike i went with 5 years of ptime.

and you attribute this to the strike? How about a very large number of drivers hitting retirement age. In our area, you could wait 5-7 years at least. Within the next 5 years, 45% of the current stable of drivers will be retiring, maybe more. That will take the time it takes to go full time to less than a year. Is that a result of the 97 strike as well?

d
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
705

I think you are missing a big point here. You claim only the company and the union can prevent a strike. What about you? Personally?

d
You know what im saying, if the company and the union work together and honor the language we wouldnt run into these problems. Absolutely i have a say and in 97 i voted in our strike authorization vote. However since we fall under a seperate agreement the national went out on strike and we followed in support of the rest of the country.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
Sober

When we discussed that "offer" at our union meeting, there was one line in it that would have allowed UPS to subcontract any work it wanted too as long as they could save money doing it. It was 8 or 9 words buried someplace in the subcontrating language that would have essentially rendered the entire conract a moot point
A couple of things. I have several copies of the last and best here. I find no such language you report seeing.

Now riddle me this. Back 10 years ago, UPS was already very interested in leveling the playing field. And one of the best was to pull the rug out from under the contractor scam of FDX.

So why would UPS try to start something they were in the process of destroying at FDX? Would that not raise some flags at the IRS? Sure, we will investigate FDX and the scam they are pulling. And you want to start it at UPS? REally?

Like I said, you shoulda spit insteada swallerd.

d
 

satellitedriver

Moderator
In regards to your solid retirement plan with age, ask the management guys with 5-10 years with the company or I think its birthday post 1972 how solid their retirement is, correct me if I am wrong please.
You say your pension is solid, I think my 25 and out before the age of 45 is pretty sweet and everything that I have earned towards this pension can not be touched by law.
I said I was going to stay out of this discussion, but, I got a sweet little letter today from the Central States Pension Fund.
1st paragraph, last line.( And, I direct quote)
"Enclosed with this letter you will find a notice advising you of the fact that the Pension Fund is in critical status (the so-called "red zone").(end of direct quote)
2nd page, 3rd paragraph, 2nd sentence. (direct quote)
"The law permits pension plans to reduce, or even eliminate, benefits called "adjustable benefits" as part of a rehabilitation plan." (end of direct quote)

The cool part of this little love note is this direct quote.

3rd paragraph, 3rd sentence, first page.
"Also, if your last Contributing Employer as of January1, 2008 was UPS, your pre-age 65 benefits (that is, your adjustable benefits) were transferred to the new UPS-IBT pension plan, and will be paid by that plan." (end of direct quote)
Basically, UPS saved Upser's CS pension and is meeting the promises made by the teamsters.
UPS, as mandated by law (per this CS document) only had to pay a surcharge of 5% in the first critical year, yet they provided 6 billion $ to protect Upser's pensions.
CS is in deep trouble. The letter states the fund will be in deficiency for the 2012 plan year.
This problem for UPSer's in CS could have been avoided in '97.
Good thing you are not under the CS plan, local804.
 

Mike Hawk

Well-Known Member
Sober

A couple of things. I have several copies of the last and best here. I find no such language you report seeing.

Now riddle me this. Back 10 years ago, UPS was already very interested in leveling the playing field. And one of the best was to pull the rug out from under the contractor scam of FDX.

So why would UPS try to start something they were in the process of destroying at FDX? Would that not raise some flags at the IRS? Sure, we will investigate FDX and the scam they are pulling. And you want to start it at UPS? REally?

Like I said, you shoulda spit insteada swallerd.

d

I wasn't around in 97, but UPS could still contract out work, not in the same way FedEx does, but things like feeder department could be contracted to another company not just contracted to the individual who drives the truck.
 

tieguy

Banned
Now do you think the Teamsters take out our money and go place on the Giants in the superbowl or do you think they use the top investors?

In fairness to them I don't think they understand the issues well enough and don't know how to manage those who manage the money.


In regards to your solid retirement plan with age, ask the management guys with 5-10 years with the company or I think its birthday post 1972 how solid their retirement is, correct me if I am wrong please.

not a problem they got what they requested. Company did a survey. the younger management folks wanted a much more potable plan they could take with them. I wish they would have offered me the same thing. If the company offered to buy out my pension put the money in my 401 K plan and give me a six percent match on my future 401 K I would jump on it with both feet.

If the company offered the teamsters a six percent match on their 401 K your brothers would also jump on it with both feet.


You say your pension is solid, I think my 25 and out before the age of 45 is pretty sweet and everything that I have earned towards this pension can not be touched by law.

for your sake I hope you're right. the history of the multi-employer plans to date tells me you may not be.
 

siouxman

siouxman
how silly was it. In hindsight we bailed out the CS plan. I wouldn't be surprised if we bail out others in the future. The cost now was much higher then it would have been in 97.

our offer to buy the pensions and pay 3000 grand a month actually resulted in many plans offering to pay our retirees more a month.

six years after the strike 11 of 21 multi employer plans were less then 70 percent vested.

The new pension reform laws that took affect in january exposed the weaknesses in many plans
 

siouxman

siouxman
ups didnt argree out of the goodness of its heart to take over the csp plan, by doing so it will save the company millions of dollars in cost reductions. Yes the company will actually save it self money over the long haul. I still have mixed feeling over the lose of control of the pension. It remains to be seen if the new plan will be better than what we had.will it be there when we retire?
 

IWorkAsDirected

Outa browns on 04/30/09
pardon me while I throw some gas on the fire.

The strike was about Carey trying to look tough and save his behind (didn't work).

Everything the union got in that strike could have been gotten without a strike. Everything, including getting UPS to drop that silly idea about the pensions.

Sorry, hit the wrong key. I disagree, UPS was very serious about the pension grab, they had been grooming management to groom members for years they really thought they could break the union and grab the pension.

In our district, a year before every hourly employee spent 3 paid days with paid travel at "training" in SLC, we were being wined and dined about how UPS really cared about us and how the company had changed in attitude toward drivers.

UPS wanted that pension money to invest in planes and to buy out foreign companies. When they didn't get it their only option to raise quick cash was to go public with stock.
 

IWorkAsDirected

Outa browns on 04/30/09
We were paid three days pay, travel expenses, motel etc. Food and all just to listen to how much ups loved us. Wined and dined, just an expression.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
And you think that UPS can take over a pension and then use the money of that said pension plan as they see fit?

Wow, Can I learn a lot from you.

d
 

IWorkAsDirected

Outa browns on 04/30/09
Big businesses do it all the time. Think Enron, if you believe they would have left it in tact you are fooling yourself. We would have ended up with stock, not cash.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
So the enron scandal was about the company taking over the employee retirement? REally? And how does that work with gooberment oversight into the retirement plans so this type of hanky panky does not take place?

d
 

IWorkAsDirected

Outa browns on 04/30/09
No, Enron did TAKE OVER their plan, it just was their plan, their retirement was all in Enron stock and it went down the tubes. Don't even think about government oversight, government anything is pretty much a joke. I'm sorry you don't agree, but I firmly believe if we ended up with a UPS pension we would be screwed, I look at it this way. How many times has the union lied to me v/s how many times ups has lied to me.
 

IWorkAsDirected

Outa browns on 04/30/09
Of course I am in Western States, our pension is fully funded. I also work in Life Insurance and understand how ours is set up. Each member will be set up with a life certain annuity, or survivorship annuity (spousal benefit). I'll take that over ups stock any day, at least it is somewhat diversified.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Of course I am in Western States, our pension is fully funded. I also work in Life Insurance and understand how ours is set up. Each member will be set up with a life certain annuity, or survivorship annuity (spousal benefit). I'll take that over ups stock any day, at least it is somewhat diversified.
Last time I checked, the Western States was also about 97% funded, and doing quite well. I am in the PEER 80 plan, when my age plus years of service equal 80, I am gone.
 

tieguy

Banned
ups didnt argree out of the goodness of its heart to take over the csp plan, by doing so it will save the company millions of dollars in cost reductions. Yes the company will actually save it self money over the long haul. I still have mixed feeling over the lose of control of the pension. It remains to be seen if the new plan will be better than what we had.will it be there when we retire?

Thats the problem. UPS fixed the CS plan and you guys keep trying to find reasons to be ungratefull.
 
Top