The strike that was

[soberups]

Yours is an excellent point sober. Lets screw all those hard working upsers out of their pension to save those who have not yet started with this company.

You apparently were incapable of comprehending my point, so I will try and dumb it down so that you can.
1. Central states pension was in a death spiral;
2. It needed 6 billion;
3. That 6 billion came in the form of a wage and benefit cut for future employees;
4. I feel that the cost should have instead been borne by employees who are already here;
5. Otherwise, the long term prospects for our union are bleak when a substantial portion of its members are earning minimum wage with no benefits.

 

[tieguy]

You apparently were incapable of comprehending my point, so I will try and dumb it down so that you can.
1. Central states pension was in a death spiral;
2. It needed 6 billion;
3. That 6 billion came in the form of a wage and benefit cut for future employees;
4. I feel that the cost should have instead been borne by employees who are already here;
5. Otherwise, the long term prospects for our union are bleak when a substantial portion of its members are earning minimum wage with no benefits.

Sober you didn't change a thing. You keep making the point that we screwed the future part timers when we saved the CS folks their pension.

Guess we should have given the future part timers a couple more bucks an hour and screwed the folks that belong to the CS pension eh sober?

 

[Mike Hawk]

Not looking out for future brothers and sisters is rather selfish, would you be so happy if the last generation of teamsters voted in a contract that boned you?

 

[dannyboy]

Mike and sober

I have a question.

What about the brothers and sisters that are left behind in the CS right now. I have not heard your plan to help them as well.

Why are you and others worried about brothers and sisters that are yet to be hired, when there are those that have paved the way for you and I, and now they have fallen by the wayside.

You have not mentioned how the majority of those teamsters that voted, voted to cut and run on those folk, many of whom cant work anywhere.

We have a retired Mason Dixon driver that was on my route making it on $123 a month pension. What about him and others just like him.

How many mouths do you want to assume responsibility for feeding?

d

 

[dilligaf]

Good point Danny. There are many that came before I did, that paved the road for me to be where I am. I am sorry the 'unborn' are taking it in the shorts but they will survive just like I did. D

 

[tieguy]

Not looking out for future brothers and sisters is rather selfish, would you be so happy if the last generation of teamsters voted in a contract that boned you?

you have to show up for the meetings if you want representation. didn't they show up?

 

[dannyboy]

One more thing

if the last generation of teamsters voted in a contract that boned you?

Are you sure that didnt allready happen with the last contract?

d

 

[Dutch Dawg]

What was the question again?

....What was the root cause of the strike, and why did it have to happen....

Ohhh yea....now I remember. It was because many of the IBT/UPS employees either did not agree with or didn't trust what the Company was telling them at that time.

After reading most of the threads in this post, it seems like some things haven't changed.

 

[dannyboy]

It was because many of the IBT/UPS employees either did not agree with or didn't trust what the Company was telling them at that time

Trust factor is a big issue when it comes to UPS and the hourly employee. And the strike of 97 made that very evident. What do you think caused that distrust pretty much across the board?

After reading most of the threads in this post, it seems like some things haven't changed

I wonder why it hasnt changed. Can you tell me why you think it has not changed for the better?

d

 

[Dutch Dawg]

It's pretty simple to answer. Anybody that's been with the Company for any amount of time will most likely have witnessed incidents that create contradiction within their own thought process.

I currently know of a situtation where supervision will talk out of the right side of their mouth and within ten minutes will be talking out of the left side of their mouth, if they believe it will cause the situtation to go away. Note, I did not say solve the problem. While I'm sure in their mind they feel it eases the stress they experience and lessens their burden for the moment, it only adds to the distrust felt by others.

But it's not all management's fault..... I get around to different buildings and witness hourlies attempting to one up each other in pulling one over on management too. One could blame distrust as the root cause of this...Which it could be, but I often tend to see it as click developement that gets a bit out of hand, causing reaction from management creating more distrust among hourlies. Kinda like an endless cycle.

 

[Mike Hawk]

One more thing



Are you sure that didnt allready happen with the last contract?

d

An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind, if you got screwed by the last generation that still does not make it ok to screw the next.

I agree with sober, If I were a driver making top pay I wouldn't mind giving some of what I had to those brothers in need. If every driver did it would help, however I am just a preloader so I can't speak for the drivers.

 

[HazMatMan]

An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind, if you got screwed by the last generation that still does not make it ok to screw the next.

I agree with sober, If I were a driver making top pay I wouldn't mind giving some of what I had to those brothers in need. If every driver did it would help, however I am just a preloader so I can't speak for the drivers.

That's a tough one. Just imagine asking the drivers OR any full-timer making top rate to take a 5 dollar pay cut so we can raise the minimum starting wage rate for part-timers from 9 dollars to 14 dollars an hour how many would say ok?? I am exempt from this question because I am not really a true full-timer (22.3 full-time inside) I make about 6 dollars an hour less than your top rated driver. BUT, if you need to know my 2 cents, no, I would not take a pay cut.

 

[Mike Hawk]

I didn't mean take driver pay to go to p/t pay, I meant driver pay to help the pension, instead of the pay/benefit freeze on new hires. 14 for p/t labor is more than the work is worth, but we all will feel the impact of UPS running out of part timers because Taco Bell pays more, has more hours, flexible hours, not phisical labor and you dont pay union dues.

 

[bones]

I agree with sober, I'm in management, spent 7 yrs p/t and 15 yrs friend/t. It was not right to take so much from the "unborn" to pay for the "sins" (strong word maby should be mistakes) of the generations before them. However, we will all pay for it, if you work in any large building anywhere you know turnover runs over 50% for the year and in many places hits over 70%, this is before we are a true minimum wage employer (minimum wage will continue to go up) that doesn't offer benifits. The real problem is we get almost all friend/t positions, both hourly and management from the p/t's we hire. For the next 5 years go look at the people we are hiring to work nights at a very tough job ( I was a driver and liked it much more than working in the building) for close to miminum wage with no benefits, these will be the future $80,000 (probably close to $100,000 with all benefits included) a year drivers and where we will get our supervisors, managers and above. I guess we can get our management from off the street right out of college, forgot, we have already started that and it is failing miserably, turnover over 80% for these people.

 

[dannyboy]

Mike

THe point of the post was maybe we are the last generation of teamsters? BUt I guess that slipped by you?

First off, pension plans all over the USA are all run differently. Some are in pretty good shape, others, like the CS are more than broke. Might not be the fault of the member, or then again it might be. Who knows. But the bottom line is that regardless of CS problems, UPS keeps pouring more money into the plans nation wide, with less and less money going to the drivers they are paying benefits for. That includes the unborn you are so worried about.

It is interesting to note that you want the drivers to take a cut in pay to pay for the unborn part timers, but you dont want to take the same percentage out of your pay? How does that work. You care enough to take money away from the drivers that make too much, but yet you dont make enough to contribute to the worthy cause you feel so strongly about?

Now, that being said, what is keeping somber and those others that feel so strongly about giving from actually giving to the cause. You could write a check each week or month, or I would bet UPS would even help provide you with a payroll deduction if you want.

What say you, somber and the rest that want to give benefits to the yet hired and unborn. Put your money where your collective mouths are.

Bones, you are that good at retention? Only 50% a year???? Wow, that is impressive. Try 1500% in a year. Real numbers, real issues, all before the contract that "screwed the unborn". And since you feel so strongly about contributing as well, I would expect you to lead the charge to contribute. After all, 15 years as a full time sup, you make more than most drivers. So you wont miss $5 an hour either.

But this addresses the latest contract, not the one where for two weeks America just about came to a stop because of egos and misinformation. Which is the one this thread is about.

d

 

[tieguy]

An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind, if you got screwed by the last generation that still does not make it ok to screw the next.

I agree with sober, If I were a driver making top pay I wouldn't mind giving some of what I had to those brothers in need. If every driver did it would help, however I am just a preloader so I can't speak for the drivers.

you could have offered to do so in your pre-contract talks.

 

[outta hours]

you have to show up for the meetings if you want representation. didn't they show up?

We average ZERO part timers at our union meetings. Why? Because they are PART TIME employees. They do not care , most of them will not be here 6 months from now much less 6 years from now. No company is designed to accommodate part time workers for 10+ years. If you want to stay with the company follow the progression and go full time. If not get what you can while your here(pay,benefits,scheduling convenience,etc.) all while your going to school, working a full time job, being a stay at home mom, or whatever else you choose to do while only working at UPS 3-5 hrs. per day.

We have had p/t people from my hub go on to be pilots,professors,lawyers,doctors,nurses. And I can tell you they could care less about MY pension now that they are gone. And I do not expect them too. I have lived the CS nightmare for 23 years and if it takes 100 p/t people to save MY pension then so be it. Fair? maybe not. Honest? absolutely. P/t employment anywhere is a vehicle to get you somewhere else. Kind of like your first car it runs and gets you where you need to be but eventually you move up to something better. Hopefully anyway, and if not and your still living with your parents and driving a 74 Vega. Then you have bigger issues to deal with. Same principal applies to you if you have been at UPS 10+ years and are still p/t. Instead of blaming the friend/T worker for you being screwed over, maybe you should blame yourself. But what would be the sense in that, it's always easier to blame others for our own failures.

 

[brownmonster]

Hey, it's a 74 AMC Pacer.

 

[soberups]

Sober you didn't change a thing. You keep making the point that we screwed the future part timers when we saved the CS folks their pension.

Guess we should have given the future part timers a couple more bucks an hour and screwed the folks that belong to the CS pension eh sober?

You arent listening. We needed to bail out the CS pension. It should have been done by freezing the wages of full-time employees, such as myself, for the duration of the contract. We shouldnt be screwing part-timers. I am more interested in the long term stabilty of our union than I am over whether or not I am going to get a $.35 raise this August.

 

[dannyboy]

Sober

If you are that dedicated to that idea, why not start a movement to give your $5 an hour to the CS fund. THat way the company will not have to pay in as much, and then can afford to pay the unhired and unborn more.

As a practical matter, if the teamsters is depending on the part time ranks for their future, they are really hurting. I would suspect that Hoffa knows what the long term will be for them somewhat better than a rank and file driver. I would really be interested in the actual percentage of part timers nation wide that are actually in the union. Wanna bet its less than 10-20%?

d