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UPS Union Issues
The Truth About Right to Work (for less) in Indiana
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<blockquote data-quote="PobreCarlos" data-source="post: 933602" data-attributes="member: 16651"><p>crowbar;</p><p></p><p>Let me get this straight; you ask for an example, and when you're presented with one (actually more than one), you say that I "bring no facts to the table"? And you dismiss the union's very real job loss problem by claiming that "We've been gaining membership and jobs"? Really? ["No...Teamsters don't stick their heads in the sand and deny reality. Not THEM!"...smile]</p><p></p><p>Sorry if you consider it all "drivel", "crowbar"....but I'm even sorrier for the union if that's the type of "representation" guys like you have to offer potential members. You see, they (the potential members) might not quite buy into the "I think not" claim in terms of there being Teamster job losses....particularly in light of the numbers the union itself have published. Maybe you believe that you and your associates can somehow hide the loss of more than a MILLION of once-upon-a-time Teamster jobs from them. And that perhaps you can get them to buy into the idea that the union will cover their butts in terms of job maintenance. </p><p></p><p>But assuming you can't (which, in light of the overwhelming evidence available, is rather a decent assumption one would think), what else do you have to offer? Can't really talk about the 100 largest trucking firms of 35 years ago - virtually all of which were "organized" - and as to just how many of them exist now, can you? Nor, I suspect, could you talk-up "union" with new hires at places like UPS, when the best ammunition available to you is the Teamster-"negotiated" wages that have been left virtually unchanged for new hire P/T'ers for almost 30 years. Tough row to hoe, isn't it?</p><p></p><p>In any case, I think the style and substance of your response is quite revealing in terms of why organizations like the Teamsters are absolutely terrified at the thought of "right to work" legislation. Not being able to dictate "membership" scares the Hell out of ya', doesn't it?</p><p></p><p>Yep, "crowbar"...no doubt you "CAN do this all day". Unfortunately, what you "can do all day" isn't very effective in attracting VOLUNTARY membership, is it? Of course, according to you "membership is the price of admission"...as if it's YOU who has the jobs to offer! Gosh, why wouldn't potential members be attracted to THAT type of logic!?</p><p></p><p>Anyway, sorry if it looked like I was trying to upset your little apple cart. No doubt you've made a very good case as to why you - and those like you - need to be able to dictate to those who might not agree with you the terms of THEIR employment. And perhaps you've demonstrated the necessity of your being able to extract funds from your co-workers regardless of whether they see such an expropriation as being to their benefit or not. </p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, I'm not buying into it. And, beyond that, I can't help but think that quite a few reasonable and responsible potential members won't be buying into it, either. My suggestion is that you come up with something REAL to offer them. I just don't think being a blow-hard is going to cut it much longer. Hell, in light of the evidence (and in spite of such "credible" claims as "we've been growing"...smile!), it hasn't been cutting it for some time now.</p><p></p><p>That said, I'll sign off and let you stick that head of yours back in the sand. Have fun!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="PobreCarlos, post: 933602, member: 16651"] crowbar; Let me get this straight; you ask for an example, and when you're presented with one (actually more than one), you say that I "bring no facts to the table"? And you dismiss the union's very real job loss problem by claiming that "We've been gaining membership and jobs"? Really? ["No...Teamsters don't stick their heads in the sand and deny reality. Not THEM!"...smile] Sorry if you consider it all "drivel", "crowbar"....but I'm even sorrier for the union if that's the type of "representation" guys like you have to offer potential members. You see, they (the potential members) might not quite buy into the "I think not" claim in terms of there being Teamster job losses....particularly in light of the numbers the union itself have published. Maybe you believe that you and your associates can somehow hide the loss of more than a MILLION of once-upon-a-time Teamster jobs from them. And that perhaps you can get them to buy into the idea that the union will cover their butts in terms of job maintenance. But assuming you can't (which, in light of the overwhelming evidence available, is rather a decent assumption one would think), what else do you have to offer? Can't really talk about the 100 largest trucking firms of 35 years ago - virtually all of which were "organized" - and as to just how many of them exist now, can you? Nor, I suspect, could you talk-up "union" with new hires at places like UPS, when the best ammunition available to you is the Teamster-"negotiated" wages that have been left virtually unchanged for new hire P/T'ers for almost 30 years. Tough row to hoe, isn't it? In any case, I think the style and substance of your response is quite revealing in terms of why organizations like the Teamsters are absolutely terrified at the thought of "right to work" legislation. Not being able to dictate "membership" scares the Hell out of ya', doesn't it? Yep, "crowbar"...no doubt you "CAN do this all day". Unfortunately, what you "can do all day" isn't very effective in attracting VOLUNTARY membership, is it? Of course, according to you "membership is the price of admission"...as if it's YOU who has the jobs to offer! Gosh, why wouldn't potential members be attracted to THAT type of logic!? Anyway, sorry if it looked like I was trying to upset your little apple cart. No doubt you've made a very good case as to why you - and those like you - need to be able to dictate to those who might not agree with you the terms of THEIR employment. And perhaps you've demonstrated the necessity of your being able to extract funds from your co-workers regardless of whether they see such an expropriation as being to their benefit or not. Unfortunately, I'm not buying into it. And, beyond that, I can't help but think that quite a few reasonable and responsible potential members won't be buying into it, either. My suggestion is that you come up with something REAL to offer them. I just don't think being a blow-hard is going to cut it much longer. Hell, in light of the evidence (and in spite of such "credible" claims as "we've been growing"...smile!), it hasn't been cutting it for some time now. That said, I'll sign off and let you stick that head of yours back in the sand. Have fun! [/QUOTE]
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