The Way it should be!

[Irishman Collins]

I was thinking about the recent issues with U.P.S. and the Union. The supplemental contracts to the master and the local 804 firings. The way I see it as far as the supplements are concerned. Is that either a particular supplement is trying to stall the Master from taking affect due to concerns over the health care or other language in it, or there is a particular area issue, I.e., the local 89 shuttle issue that is the root of this contract dispute. As far as the local 804 issue. I believe that peer pressure and a honest mistake by that local is the root of that issue. So I ask, take all politics aside and ask yourself what should the leader of our Union do in relationship to these two serious issues? Here is How I see it. Issue 1, the supplement issue. Our leader should support and back the autonomy of these respective areas and get behind fixing them. If the issue is health care negotiate with the company to allow these areas to remain in their current plans. Issue 2, support 804 publicly and negotiate with the company to get these drivers back to work. If the I.B.T. doesn't agree and thinks the strike action was illegal or a contract violation then punish said local within our own due process but to not back them publicly shows weakness and a lack of Solidarity. In the end both issues come down to one thing. Support your members and their families and do the right thing all of the time not just when it suits your political agenda.

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[Anonymous 11]

Maybe someday you will make it high enough in the union to make a decision like this. If you do I'm sure you will find out it's not as cut and dry when you are the men that make these decisions. It's so easy to judge but to actually lead and get to this point where you can lead is very hard. Just like the job they have to do. They also have to do it with many many people that judge but will never ever sniff the top.

 

[Irishman Collins]

Mr. Bojangles, you don't agree with what I said should be done? Then please tell me what I said was wrong. If it's being concerned with my own political skin over the well being of the membership then your right, the top is not for me. I would honesty like to know how you would deal with these issues if you were in charge? I truly mean that. I am sure that my opinion is just one of many.

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[Ashell]

As far as the contract goes, I don't see why it didn't pretty much stay the same except negotiate our raises for the next 5 years. Yes there is probably some language that needs cleaned up or better defined, but its not that difficult.

What people fail to realize is that the people UPS promote to management typically live a little beyond their means. They are often young and ambitious. They are the type of people that will take their new found income and buy an expensive car they can barely afford. Maybe this car will impress girls, and even better, possibly girls working for them. So the company asks these people to take a little bit out of everyone's pocket, and in return, they get a little piece of it. If they don't do it, and you risk loosing your cushy management job. Then they can't afford the car, and they definitely won't get the cute new hourly employee. Well it turns out, the people that work in the union are the same way. Take a little from everyone, and get rewarded. They just give us enough so that we have to keep coming back.

I think the problem with 804 is they did it half way. Once the company threatened to fire everyone they all should have said, No. Firing all the drivers is just UPS saying we have the cards and this is what will happen if you strike. Maybe they do... But company image, and especially customer trust can make or break you. There is a lot of false confidence from UPS, because it would be very difficult to buy enough trucks and planes and buildings to setup and compete with us or take us out of business. But times change, and I don't think the company is changing in the right way.

 

[Anonymous 11]

Mr. Bojangles, you don't agree with what I said should be done? Then please tell me what I said was wrong. If it's being concerned with my own political skin over the well being of the membership then your right, the top is not for me. I would honesty like to know how you would deal with these issues if you were in charge? I truly mean that. I am sure that my opinion is just one of many.

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I won't be at the top either. How would I deal with these issues you ask? I would wait for the leaders that were elected to make something happen. I think they have probably already talked. The ball is probably rolling as we speak. It's just not out there for you and I to know about and this is very frustrating. I want to know as much as you brother but I'm not in this position.

I'm betting everyone is trying to figure out how they are going to save face and that it will work out the way it will. Let's watch it together and say a prayer. Just think before you throw out the scab moniker on your union brother and sister who have probably waited up words of 15 years for a full time job. These names have a way of sticking and they are irresponsible to say.

 

[Irishman Collins]

If you know that you are replacing an unjust terminated employee. Then in my mind that makes you a scab. Only, my opinion of course. Brother Bojangles I appreciate your comments though and yes I have been praying that there be an end to this mess but at the moment no one upstairs is listening.

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[oldngray]

If you know that you are replacing an unjust terminated employee. Then in my mind that makes you a scab. Only, my opinion of course. Brother Bojangles I appreciate your comments though and yes I have been praying that there be an end to this mess but at the moment no one upstairs is listening.

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Scab yes but its a gray area for a part timer who has waited years to go driving. Its not really his fault drivers got fired but he should have opportunity to go full time. A new hire off the street would definitely be a scab though.

 

[island1fox]

A man whose Company closed down years ago --has been trying every which way to support a wife and children ---has nothing to do with the UPS --Local 804 mess ---gets an opportunity to get a job with great pay ---has no idea what is right or wrong or legal or illegal about the controversy ----is a SCAB ???

Judge not unless you have walked a mile in his shoes. Most people would see it a little differently with an authorized legal work stoppage --this situation ---SCAB --a little dicey !!

 

[Ashell]

considering the full timers won't fight for part timers to get a full time job, its kind of karma. What did you expect? Why shouldn't he take their job if UPS has every right to fire those drivers? You might not like it, but by the unions contract, they are justified. If everyone looked out for everyone, that is brotherhood, but that is not what we have.

And I'm sorry but elected?!? I think about the half the elections are shams. I would say the 4 locals that are still holding out are probably the only ones with honest elections, because who in their right mind would have passed it. And to trust anyone in this company especially god, would be foolish. The only people that are going to get "saved" out of 804 are "just the people we like." Not the unattractive ones, not the ones that don't like the same sports team, not the ones that don't like the same lunch spot, and don't share the same political views... People in this company haven't matured much socially or morally since high school.

 

[3 done 3 to go]

Either way how the 804 mess turns out. The union is now done. The next contract will be the end of it. If we strike.

 

[710 steward]

10

Could you please elaborate your thoughts in a little better detail on how we are done. Your post is vague and I am interested in the breakdown of how we are done.

 

[3 done 3 to go]

10

Could you please elaborate your thoughts in a little better detail on how we are done. Your post is vague and I am interested in the breakdown of how we are done.

Yes, 710. I can. Just finished work. The union just keeps letting UPS improve technology. Then keeps giving concessions. Orion, for one is the end of needing a driver with knowledge of certain areas. A monkey can now drive the automatic trucks. With Orion. When I first started. As a casual. I knew I need to learn as many routes as possible. Btw I learned all in my center. Also, with rd and hc numbered addresses 25+ yrs ago. (Many of the guys on this site will have no idea what those are) 911 is too easy. I actually get bored without having to think where things are now.

 

[710 steward]

10

I have been there too. I had too learn all of the box numbers for my pull and the pull next to me so we could delegate the correct boxes to the correct route so I get it. Been there over 20 years myself.

I do disagree though. Technology is here and UPS should be allowed to improve their business. I also believe that even if you lay the stops out one by one it still takes a person with area knowledge to deliver those stops. Now factor in which door to use ect. If UPS decides to wipe the slate clean so to speak they then create a really big set of new problems. No business will trust or be patient with an all new workforce. Your customers don't use UPS just for UPS. They know you are the person bring their work and trust you to do so even if they aren't there. You know where they key is, the nearest person as an alternative place, and we'll whatever it takes for them to get what the need. I hear what you see saying but if they release us it will be just a matter if time and the dream ends. Not because one or even one thousand can't be replaced. It's because top to bottom a new workforce won't have the know how or the supervision to get them to that service level for the customers. We are here to stay whether corporate likes it or not.

 

[3 done 3 to go]

10

I have been there too. I had too learn all of the box numbers for my pull and the pull next to me so we could delegate the correct boxes to the correct route so I get it. Been there over 20 years myself.

I do disagree though. Technology is here and UPS should be allowed to improve their business. I also believe that even if you lay the stops out one by one it still takes a person with area knowledge to deliver those stops. Now factor in which door to use ect. If UPS decides to wipe the slate clean so to speak they then create a really big set of new problems. No business will trust or be patient with an all new workforce. Your customers don't use UPS just for UPS. They know you are the person bring their work and trust you to do so even if they aren't there. You know where they key is, the nearest person as an alternative place, and we'll whatever it takes for them to get what the need. I hear what you see saying but if they release us it will be just a matter if time and the dream ends. Not because one or even one thousand can't be replaced. It's because top to bottom a new workforce won't have the know how or the supervision to get them to that service level for the customers. We are here to stay whether corporate likes it or not.

Remember now. Add/ cuts. The customers rarely see their regular drivers any more. They now see up to 4. In any given week. There has to be a line UPS can't cross. The union isn't doing it. It's all about contributions and
dues

 

[710 steward]

10

I hear you there but those 4 all have experience and training. I agree that corporate is trying to break that driver/customer bond but that will fail. If they cannot be the best rates or provide close customer relations, what are they selling? We both know that deliveries and making the pickup simultaneously is kissing business goodbye. Because corporate has taken the opinion that no experience necessary for management may mean we need the experienced union worker even more than in the past. When we started the sups could do and train bargaining work. Now the new sups can't run the local McDonald's. Time will tell but in my center if the older employees don't do the training the training doesn't happen. It's tough to run a company when no one knows anything about the business.

 

[Irishman Collins]

A Scab, a person who has knowledge that the reason they are being employed is because another's due process hasn't come to a conclusion. I.e., a strike or an arbitration over a contract dispute. A scab is a scab no matter from the outside or the inside.

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[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

A Scab, a person who has knowledge that the reason they are being employed is because another's due process hasn't come to a conclusion. I.e., a strike or an arbitration over a contract dispute. A scab is a scab no matter from the outside or the inside.

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What you call a scab I call an opportunist.

 

[cachsux]

Did they cross a line to take the position?

If one driver gets fired for walking out and the next in line on the bid list takes his spot is he a scab?

 

[3 done 3 to go]

710



Orion is the end game. Plus what ever they pull out of the constellations, next. The union just keeps letting them improve it. Most of the firings now. Are for gaps in between stops. Where the driver was probably actually working. But, the computer says otherwise. If Hall is the next pres. We will get another weak contract. If someone who UPS hasn't bribed yet. We will strike. 804 will probably never vote yes again. The rest of us better start paying a lot more attention. If not, the union will never pay out a full pension after this contract. Which they would want. And, UPS will have young legs running boxes. We ft and pt lose ---again.

 

[Irishman Collins]

Cashsux, if you are voluntarily taking employment from someone who is actively in a situation as this, I would think you are a scab. I think all part timers should refuse to bid the full time jobs until an arbitrator has ruled whether the strike was authorized or not. As far as the off the street scabs. There are legal actions that can be taken against them, such as informational picketing outside of their houses. If the company wants to turn the heat up on our guys. Then lets turn the heat up on these hired scabs. Unions are about Solidarity and any Teamster knowingly replacing another Teamster in this situation is a scab, plain and simple

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