theories on ups's direction with deliveries

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by delivery_boy, Jul 20, 2005.

  1. delivery_boy

    delivery_boy Guest

    just wondering what everyone thinks the reason is ups has changed the numbers on the drivers? is it purely for money? did they watch IRobot to many times? are they just that clueless as to what it takes to get it all done? trying to ditch the union in '08? i wish ups would just be honest with everyone a little.
  2. fredly00

    fredly00 Guest

    One of our guys just had a ride along today..
    rolled in at 9pm, I was done at around 8:30(half day) oh and more than half of the DIADS were still out...
  3. wornoutupser

    wornoutupser Guest

    I was 1.45 over with my last supervisor ride. Ups's numbers are unrealistic. I dont care anymore what they expect, I just go deliver everything the best that I can and I go home.
    They refuse to time study our building and some of our loops are over 30 years old.If you have been to Central Florida and seen the explosive growth, you can imagine how outdated the loops are.
    Some roads were 2 lanes in the old days and are now 5 lanes, yet the loop still has you driving out and crossing the road all day.
    If you try to sort it to run down each side in trace, you get yelled at for sort time.
    Oh Well!
  4. ok2bclever

    ok2bclever Guest

    A time study wouldn't do any good.

    You have UPS figuring with UPS figures.

    Where do you figure that gets you.

    We had a couple of time studies a two years ago and we actually lost time on more routes than gained time.

    And of course, since then the numbers have been drastically jumped up on all routes across the board, including the ones that were most recently time studied.

    The "game" is fixed, don't you know?
  5. wkmac

    wkmac Guest

    The folks doing the studies to determine the numbers at least as I see it where I'm at are people hired off the street as so-called management trainees and have never sorted, loaded, drove, etc. so they operate strictly off of book theory. They fail to understand the true nature of what is out there so the chance that they get it right is very slim. Thus the results you see as some of you have expressed.

    Now for the bad news. With a domestic volume growth for the last quarter at nearly 6%, it will be percieved they are correct and on the right course. The way I see it is this just points out how damn good our UPS folks are in spite of all this stupid crap they throw out we go out and to quote Larry the Cable Guy, we "GET ER DONE!"

    Nice job guys
  6. upsdude

    upsdude Guest

    A fair days work for a fair days pay, the numbers mean nothing to me. Use the methods, take your lunch, and by all means work safe.
  7. ok2bclever

    ok2bclever Guest

    "A fair days work for a fair days pay, the numbers mean nothing to me. Use the methods, take your lunch, and by all means work safe."

    Exactly! If you are a good methods driver that is all you need to do. Let any pressure or "threats" from management roll off your shoulders as the "worst" thing they can do to you (if you don't let them get to you) is ride with you and if you are a good methods driver that not only gets them nothing, but strengthens your situation.
  8. pd109

    pd109 Guest

    It`ll be 06 before we get diad 4 here in Canada.I`m wondering if their introduction will also bring the new stop counts.I`m already doing over 10 hour days,and they say thier goal is to keep us under 9 1/2.I challenge anyone to beat my time in my area(15yrs) using the new pre-set stop list in the new boards.Any extra stops they give me will only be missed unless they send help.Maybe thier plan is to wait till all us old guys die and bring in the newly trained soldiers
    that just do what they`re told or they`re history.What has your union done for YOU lately?
  9. gman

    gman Guest

    If you get the new boards BEFORE you get PAS, they are a nightmare. The toggle switch will have you frustrated all day. Nothing is worse than keying in a full screen message and realizing it is in numeric instead of alpha mode! They should give an exrta allowance to use those things.

    42 hours in four days so far this week. Saving for my next Disney va-ca! At this rate it will be soon.
  10. ezrider

    ezrider Guest

    <font color="0000ff">If you are a good methods driver that is all you need to do. Let any pressure or "threats" from management roll off your shoulders as the "worst" thing they can do to you (if you don't let them get to you) is ride with you and if you are a good methods driver that not only gets them nothing, but strengthens your situation.</font>

    Clever, I'd agree that's certainly the safest path to travel, but like the tiny fine print buried under the rosy optimistic charts of mutual fund prospectuses always stated...Past performance does not guarantee future results

    Funny how the "methods" seem to have expanded at a rate that rivals the spike in the stop counts. A driver can go on a week of vacation and upon coming back easily fail a quiz due to subtle additions and changes that render the worksheets he or her reffered to as "no longer the method".

    I talked to a guy from another building awhile back who had a sup ride with him on a 13hr planned day with the shelves loaded entirely out of sequence. Very hard to sustain the method and follow EDD trace when the load quality boils down to 52-pickup at every stop. Interesting tidbit was the sup's response to the driver remarking that it was days like that that made him want to quit. The sup answered "That's what we want."

    Granted, that might just be an exception. Then again it may be the unwritten rule that's going to be followed until 2008. It seems every few years the long hours have come and gone for many reasons good and bad, but this isn't just a passing shower. This storm feels like it's going to rain well into 2008 and they want the hourlies to be plenty scared and willing to accept and concede anything and everything. Wanna break a driver on performance standards, just jack up the spohr standards. Wanna bust a driver on methods, just make them impossible to do.

    Following them to the letter as they exist now can be done and can get the driver safely to shore, but in two years at the rate the standards are rising it may only be enough to keep your head above the water only until the next wave hits.
  11. ok2bclever

    ok2bclever Guest

    In general the methods haven't changed much in the thirty plus years I have been here.

    I am not talking about specific procedures on how you turn on a diad or the crap you miss while on vacation about the new way to dot the "i".

    I am talking about the general everyday delivery methods.

    Looking through your next section and knowing the stops, driving and working safe, etc.

    The primary way they can truly pressure a driver is a driver who does not follow the methods without a supe and then tries to with one.

    Then the "threat" of a supe riding with them for a performance ride is a true threat.

    A driver who practices the methods will be consistent within the constraints of any day and will be so with as well as without a supe riding with him.

    As far as 2008, I think that type of pressure would be counterproductive contractually.

    Now as far as a possible method of getting rid of older drivers (burning out those foolish enough to run, skip lunch, etc to try to make dishonestly unreasonable performance numbers), hmmmmm. . .

    That has potential, what's the downside, some will ignore the numbers and keep delivering like they always have, some will cut the corners and increase their productivity and some will give up.

    Not much to lose there for UPS unless the medical (workman's compensation) becomes financially too burdensome.
  12. ezrider

    ezrider Guest

    Sure the methods haven't changed much in general. In fact, I'm not sure the methods have been able to keep up with the reality that the the size of the trucks, where the grab rails have been curiously placed, the weight and size limits of the parcels, what is considered a small and therefore put in bags, etc. are not nearly the same as a generation ago.

    Ten years ago a good share of drivers looked forward to the start of the pickup line. It marked that the end of the day was in sight and he or she had a good idea what to expect. Now with the relentless emphasis on maximizing capacity, the methods require all over-70's loaded in back and on floor, all hazardous on floor and segregated, blocked and braced on all four sides no higher than waist level, all high value have to be verified and signed by an auditor upon returning and air pkgs have to be grouped together also. There are runs here where the back of the truck is filled with 200 pkgs spread among those 4 classifications 5 stops into a metro with 25 hits to go and sometimes more. There will most likely be double-handling required multiple times in order to try and accomodate for the rest, and in addition the driver may be directed to cover another pickup. That pickup may consist of several over-70 air pkgs that cannot be stacked on top of haz-mats already allocated for the space on the floor.

    The driver has few choices, none of which are appealing. If the driver balks at loading the pkgs into the car, he or she likely has a mildly disgruntled to outright peeved customer giving the finger with one hand while dialing 1-800-FEDEX with the other and a phone call and subsequent "review" with the management team who happen to see the car upon returning to the building minus the air and haz-mats and bulk pieces while answering to the typical "You had plenty of room" line.

    Will the driver still have his or her job after the unpleasant exchange? Sure. Will they feel like sticking it out that extra few years to get a better retirement knowing that following the methods as well as they could resulted in all parties dissatisfied?

    Time will tell. Following the methods is good risk-averse behavior, but it by no means guarantees that it's practice will endear one to the management team or even the rank-and-file during crunch time. A driver calling in for help to lift over-70's certainly is practicing safe work methods, but the reality is that he or she is viewed as a pain in the rear at an inconvenient time for all. But if the driver attempts to handle it his or herself and gets hurt in the process...

    There are safeguards and methods, but that doesn't mean a driver escapes the wrath by any means by executing them fully.
  13. ok2bclever

    ok2bclever Guest

    I agree following the methods doesn't guarantee you will make management happy.

    My thoughts on that is "who cares".

    As far as lifting over 70's alone to avoid being called a pain in the ass, weight till you hurt yourself doing it without help.

    You will have a real pain in the ass or a bit higher with strikes possibly radiating down to your heals and management will consider you a "drag up" or "deadweight".

    Following the methods is the best way to protect your health and job, not your popularity with management.

    And no, nothing will bullet-proof you from unethical management.
  14. ezrider

    ezrider Guest

    Heck I can remember back in I think early '94 on my way to school in the morning and as I passed by work I was shocked to see a parade of picket signs held by some of the part-timers I worked with. When I pulled overthey said a strike had been called due to a dispute with the introduction of the over-70 service.

    I can't rememeber all the details but i believe the steward said that the Teamsters wanted a run created for strictly over-70's that would have two people in the truck in order to ensure that there would always be help for a driver and thus no running afoul of the method. If true, maybe the union had more concern for our welfare than I ever had given them credit for.

    Perhaps I should drop that idea into the suggestion box at the next safety meeting. Any idea what the reply might be?
  15. ok2bclever

    ok2bclever Guest

    Yes I do.

    Frankly, you wouldn't like it.

    But it's ok to dream.