Think it thru....Pension Takeover

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
As long as our pension was a Teamster pension we have been working for the Teamsters..We were loaned out to UPS......

I have only got one check from the Teamsters, and that was for 55 bucks ten years ago and that didn't quite cut it. I realize that this new Teamster/UPS Pension is not going to be the same UPS Pension that non-union employees have. What we have to think about though, do I want an UPS employee only pension put together by a corporation that knows how to make money or do I want what we have now, a multi-employer plan that is only going to get worse if we stay in it. The Teamsters have steadily been losing members for a long time and have done a poor job of organizing. Along with corrupt IBT leaders, mob influence, and poor investments, I don't have a lot of faith in their way of doing things. I often wonder who do we trust the least, UPS or the IBT? We will just have to wait a little longer and see what the new Pension Plan offers. I hope that UPS will try to let a lot of us retire earlier, a bunch of sixty plus year old Package Drivers out there is not in the company's best interest. I have 8.25 years in the PT UPS Pension and will have 24 years vested in CS next August and will be fifty then. Thats twelve years away from being able to draw a full CS benefit.:wheelchai
 

sawdusttv

Well-Known Member
Saw to my understanding that the pension is a negiotated item and must be negiotated as such.

Scratch i noticed that you stated that you should be receiving some info soon on the pension, i ask that if you guys get it if someone could please poat it so that we all can view its details and maybe just maybe we can help you come up with some questions that should be answered before the decision making process.

Red,
We thought the same thing when that made thecuts to our pensions and we started raising cane about them violating our contract by making cuts in the middle of a contract. But to our surprise we found out that our pension is not covered under the contract. The only thing in the contract concerning our pension was the amounts that UPS must contribute.
 

sawdusttv

Well-Known Member
I was at our union meeting last sunday and our guys said that it is under negotiation for UPS's plan to make up the difference so you are not trapped by CS. MY God the company has got to be balking at the cost. It all needs to be done by the end of the year or the new rules go into effect and CS and UPS lose.

Cap,
I sure hope that you are right! For a large cross section of UPSers that would be our only hope!:sweatdrop:sweatdrop
 

area43

Well-Known Member
I have only got one check from the Teamsters, and that was for 55 bucks ten years ago and that didn't quite cut it. I realize that this new Teamster/UPS Pension is not going to be the same UPS Pension that non-union employees have. What we have to think about though, do I want an UPS employee only pension put together by a corporation that knows how to make money or do I want what we have now, a multi-employer plan that is only going to get worse if we stay in it. The Teamsters have steadily been losing members for a long time and have done a poor job of organizing. Along with corrupt IBT leaders, mob influence, and poor investments, I don't have a lot of faith in their way of doing things. I often wonder who do we trust the least, UPS or the IBT? We will just have to wait a little longer and see what the new Pension Plan offers. I hope that UPS will try to let a lot of us retire earlier, a bunch of sixty plus year old Package Drivers out there is not in the company's best interest. I have 8.25 years in the PT UPS Pension and will have 24 years vested in CS next August and will be fifty then. Thats twelve years away from being able to draw a full CS benefit.:wheelchai

Scratch I salute you. Wow, you must have started when you were 17 or 18. Whats a little scarey about the CS mep is the stats. 200,000 retires. 150,000 active working members. 35,000 to 40,000 of those active working UPS contributing members are going to be leaving when the buy out occurs. Where is the Teamsters going to go to find their replacements. Fedex, Dhl, who knows?? Union membership has been on the decline. How will the Teamsters attract new members to the CS mep plan? It will not be at all attract to anyone. How will they support the 200,000 with only 110,000 active workers contributing? The 6 billion buy out wont go far. Yes, it will show that it is funded at a higher level but that is a little miss leading. For how long will it be funded above the required 63%? Unfortunately it will be a 2 check retirement. I wish the Teamsters would give back to you what UPS has contributed over the years on your behalf. No earnings or losses. Whats fair is fair. Who knows maybe thats what will be in the packet. A one check retirment would be great.

In closing I believe after the deal is done. The fund will start its journey toward government control. Out of the 110,000 active working employees that are left how many of those are going to retire in 3 to 5 years(baby boomers). I also believe the other companies that are left in the plan do not pay the same amount as UPS did per their employees(weekly pension contributions).
 

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
Scratch I salute you. Wow, you must have started when you were 17 or 18.

Area43, I was seventeen when I started as an Atlanta Hub Midnight Sort Loader in OCT. '75. I had just started my Senior year in High School, I never planned at that time to stay with UPS as a career. I went to DeVry Tech to study Computer Design, back then, home PCs were just a hobby. The Apple One you bought in a kit form and you had to build a wooden case to hold all the parts together. I'm like a lot of guys where I work. UPS was a great part time job back then, we starting working there too young and are hitting thirty years way before we can draw a pension due to age requirements. Back when Central States offered twenty-five and out at any age, my Local in Atlanta had about six guys draw $2500 a month when they retired at age forty-seven. That is one reason that CS is in the mess it is in now. At the time, the IBT thought it would grow membership to increase Pension funding, but the opposite happened.
 

Channahon

Well-Known Member
This may provide some information.





UPS said to reach deal to withdraw from Teamsters plan

By Barry B. Burr
Posted: September 3, 2007, 6:01 AM EST


Officials at United Parcel Service Inc., Atlanta, and Teamsters Central States, Southeast & Southwest Areas Pension Fund, Rosemont, Ill., reached an agreement on the company’s potential withdrawal from the $20.7 billion fund, according to a letter the Washington-based International Brotherhood of Teamsters sent to local union offices.
“The specific terms of the agreement are being finalized by the company and fund,” said the letter by James P. Hoffa, Teamster president and co-chairman of the Teamsters National United Parcel Service Negotiating Committee, and hall, co-chairman of the committee.
Norman Black, UPS spokesman, said he couldn’t confirm an agreement, but said UPS officials have been talking with Central States officials to obtain “information that will be important to further negotiations.”
UPS and the Teamsters agreed in July to suspend national contract negotiations so UPS officials could begin talks with Central States officials. “UPS has made progress in discussing the information we need,” Mr. Black said. “We are not done yet.”
UPS expects to resolve its request for information from Central States before resuming contract negotiations with the Teamsters, Mr. Black said. The UPS/Teamsters contract expires Aug. 1, 2008.
Mr. Black declined to say if UPS was also talking with any of the other 20 jointly trusteed Teamsters pension plans to which UPS contributes or to provide other details about the Central States talks.
Central States officials Mark friend. Angerame, CFO, and William J. Nellis, attorney, couldn’t be reached for comment.
In the letter, Messrs. Hoffa and Hall said: “As you have been advised, these matters are strictly between the company and Central States. Neither the negotiating committee nor the international union has any authority or legal right to participate in those negotiations.”
Any agreement between UPS and Central States “cannot be implemented unless it is accepted by the (Teamsters) negotiating committee and ratified by the members,” the letter said. “In short, the existence of the agreement between Central States and UPS does not mean that UPS is free to withdraw from Central States and establish a new, jointly administered Teamster pension plan for its employees.”
The Teamsters committee still awaits official notification of the agreement, according to the letter.
UPS is the biggest contributor to the Central States fund, and its employees account for the largest number of Teamsters members. UPS contributes to 20 other Teamsters jointly trusteed plans covering UPS employees.
In May, the Teamsters issued a statement revealing a proposal by UPS and the Teamsters to create a joint UPS-Teamster pension plan “to cover full-time UPS employees who currently obtain their pension benefits from” the multiemployer Central States fund. The proposed plan would cover only UPS employees. It would be jointly administered by UPS and the Teamsters, that statement said. UPS would pay withdrawal liability that would have to be determined to leave the Central States fund, the statement said.
UPS officials wouldn’t comment about that proposal. Galen Munroe, Teamsters press secretary, said the Teamsters would not comment beyond the two statements.
UPS and the Teamsters opened negotiations on a new contract last September specifically to discuss exclusively pension and health-care issues, Mr. Black said. Both sides took the unusual step of opening talks almost two years before the present contract expires because both recognize how difficult it is to settle the two issues. UPS is concerned about severe underfunding of some of the Teamster plans; the use of UPS contributions to subsidize pensions of people who have worked for other companies that went out of business and no longer contribute into the Teamster plans; and disparate pension benefits at different Teamster funds for the same UPS work and length of service.
 

18wheelbrownie

Well-Known Member
UPS, Teamsters haggle over pensions
Execs ‘concerned’ about employees in Central States plan
By Barry B. Burr
Posted: September 17, 2007, 6:01 AM EST

United Parcel Service Inc., Atlanta, is “concerned about the viability of the pension promises” to UPS employees who belong to the $20.7 billion Central States, Southeast & Southwest Areas Pension Fund, Rosemont, Ill., said Norman Black, UPS spokesman, about contract negotiations between the company and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Washington.
“One of the issues for us is pensions for UPS employees who are members of the Central States plan,” Mr. Black said. “We are concerned about the viability of the pension promises to those employees. Beyond that, I couldn’t go into any detail.”
Mr. Black declined to confirm that UPS seeks to withdraw from the Central States plan and set up a new plan for those employees.
The Teamsters union is demanding in contract negotiations that UPS raise its contributions to all members’ pension, health and welfare plans, despite a company proposal to withdraw from one of the biggest of those plans, the Central States fund, James P. Hoffa, general president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Washington, and co-chairman of the Teamsters National United Parcel Service Negotiating Committee, said in a statement.
“It was the company’s proposal to leave Central States, not the union’s,” Mr. Hoffa said in the statement. “UPS made an internal financial decision that should not be counted as part of the final economic settlement. We are still expecting major economic improvements if we are to reach an agreement.”
In the negotiations, the union is “demanding a contract that provides more company contributions toward all members’ pension, health and welfare plans than any other UPS contract in history,” Mr. Hoffa’s statement said. The Teamsters didn’t give an amount.
UPS is proposing to create “a new joint union/company-administered pension fund for those workers formerly covered by Central States,” the statement said. “In return, the company will pay billions of dollars to cover its withdrawal liability” from the Central States plan.
“Whatever the company pays for its withdrawal liability cannot be deducted from the overall economic package contained in the agreement,” Mr. Hoffa said in the statement.
Mr. Black declined to discuss details of the contract negotiations.
UPS is the biggest contributor to the Central States fund, and UPS employees account for the largest number of Teamsters members. UPS contributes to 21 Teamsters jointly trusteed plans, Mr. Black said.
UPS, which doesn’t break out contributions by Teamsters fund, contributed $1.4 billion in 2006 to multiemployer pension funds, largely the Central States and other Teamster plans, according to its 10-K filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. That contribution is a 14% increase from the $1.2 billion it contributed to multiemployer plans in 2005.
More contributions
The Central States plan is 60.5% funded as of Nov. 1, 2005, according to a Teamsters November 2006 report. To improve funding, the plan is seeking to increase contributions.
Aside from the Central States fund, the two other largest Teamster funds to which UPS contributes are: the $30.2 billion Western Conference of Teamsters Pension Trust Fund, Seattle, and the $3.4 billion New England Teamsters and Trucking Industry Pension Fund, Burlington, Mass.
The Western Conference plan no longer had an unfunded liability as of 2006, and “this means there is no withdrawal liability for employers who withdraw from the plan in 2006,” it said in a report.
UPS hasn’t indicated it is seeking to withdraw from other Teamsters plans, based on Teamster statements.
The Teamsters have set an Oct. 1 deadline to reach an early contract agreement it can recommend to members, Mr. Hoffa said in the statement; the UPS/Teamsters contract expires next Aug. 31.
“We are optimistic we can get an early agreement, and it can be done by Oct. 1,” Mr. Black said.
Mark Angerame, Central States chief financial officer, could not be reached for comment.
Galen Munroe, Teamsters press secretary, declined to comment beyond the statement.
 

wyobill

Well-Known Member
If ups pulls out of CS why in the hell would I want to remain in the fund? I have 25 yrs in cs and what would be the benefit for me and others that have this many years vested in cs. The 6 billon rumored wont help , the teamsters will find a way to spend that. Is cs going to reinstate the 25 and out being that ups is going to kick the 6 Bill. I doubt it!!! I cant image with the ups withdraw how thats going to strenghten the fund. Is ups looking out for the employees that are already retired and dependent on the cs ?
 

Fullhouse

Well-Known Member
Ok guys this a rumor! So don't brow beat me to bad! I've heard that the amount of $5 Billion was reached, all full timers will be under UPS pension and the H/W will stay with CS. Here is where the rumor gets interesting. All friend/Ters with 20 or less years in CS will be credited all years served under UPS pension plan. All Full timers 21+ years under CS will not be credited. This means that under 20 years will get one check from UPS and 21+ years will receive two checks, one from CS and one from UPS for the remaining years of service. Remember this is just a rumor and I'm wondering if anyone else has heard this?
:confused:1
 

Braveheart

Well-Known Member
One of the real bad parts of this whole buyout thing is that we really have no say so in the matter. UPS does not need our approval. They can legally pay the buyout amount and proceed forward whether we like it or not.:sad:
No they can not. If you vote no you stop the whole thing. It is your choice. It is a scary choice. Stay in the Central States Titanic of bad investments and health care issues dragging it down or jump into the Ship of Fools with the untrustworthy liars at UPS. Remember how IBM dumped their pension!!!!!! I do not trust UPS but I do not like Central States either. This is why I wanted matching 401k funds and stock bonuses just like the managers get. At least we can take those with us and get at those when we want minus the taxes and penalties!!!!!!!!!
 

Braveheart

Well-Known Member
:confused:1 Question-Do you think that the whole company (
hourlys
/pt) will have to vote on this issue, or will it be limited to just CS covered employees? Being on the West Coast and covered by a different pension plan, I would feel weird deciding your out come.
Thanks, I hear that all will vote. Kind of like Florida voting on what Californian's want for taxes. Does not seem fair.
 

Braveheart

Well-Known Member
Yesterday, my Center Manager was asking us to make sure UPS has an up to date mailing address for us. He didn't know the details why, only that we will get something in the mail regarding the pension and contract matters in the near future.:confused:1 We will see what the particulars are then.
Yeah I noticed that too. That is when I knew the contract was already done and that I think it has been finished for some time. Hoffa and his buddy Eskew had this all figured out last year. Bluff Bluff Bluff 10/1 or we are done HA what a joke! It was over before it even started!
 

filthpig

Well-Known Member
Better think thru the Pension Takeover by Uncle Parcel !!!!......I suggest that you ask management how happy they are with their poor (and getting poorer) pension plan ....
You're joking, right?!? Only a maroon would be opposed to one of the most financially sound companies in American history to take over his/her pension fund. Especially if said fund is leaking oil like crazy.
 

tieguy

Banned
Better think thru the Pension Takeover by Uncle Parcel !!!!......I suggest that you ask management how happy they are with their poor (and getting poorer) pension plan ....

Could you explain the getting poorer comment. Management retirement plan is actually pretty healthy?
 

NicklbackCHILD

Underestimated Redneck
why are they doing this? do they want us to actually quit? my father has been working here for 20 years now and doesnt like this one bit. i totaly disagree w/ it but there is no telling wat will happen. wat are we suposed to do, go on strike? we should talk to our representatives or government about this if ups doesn't listen 2 us. didn't the government do this in the first place?
 

local804

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I have been too busy thinking about the "take down" of the pension by the teamster
CS pension fund.
OK, I thought about it now.
I think a "take over" by UPS is better than the "shakedown" of the teamster CS plan.

Tell that to my brothers and sisters that are now in worse shape than the CS plan.
UPS-Teamster pension plan = crap
 
J

JonFrum

Guest
From the Central States Trustees . . .

2007 -SPECIAL BULLETIN -2007-5
DATE: OCTOBER 4, 2007

TO: ALL PARTICIPATING LOCAL UNIONS, OFFICERS,
BUSINESS AGENTS AND OFFICE CLERICAL STAFF

RE: QUESTIONS AND RUMORS

There have been wide spread questions and rumors about the effect of a UPS
withdrawal from Central States Pension Fund as well as the impact of the new pension
law which becomes effective January 1, 2008. Specifically, one rumor speculates that
participants who fail to retire by January 1, 2008 will have their pension benefit
automatically reduced or subject to offset by any Social Security benefit they receive.
An additional rumor has the Fund being taken over by the PBGC after January 1, 2008.

I can assure you that these rumors are completely false and there are no plans to
reduce benefits for any active or retired participant. You can be further assured
that the Pension Fund is in no danger of being taken over by the PBGC or any
other governmental agency.

As you know, the Trustees of the Pension Fund adopted a plan to improve
funding in 2003, well ahead of the Pension Protection Act ("PPA") that becomes
effective next year. The Fund's plan included steps to secure an amortization extension
from the IRS, reductions in future pension liabilities by plan amendments effective
January 1, 2004 and increases in future pension contributions from our employers. This
plan does not contemplate any further benefit modifications and it is working. In fact,
the Pension Fund is ahead of the funding requirements established by the IRS in
connection with the amortization extension. And, if the recently announced agreement
with UPS is ratified by UPS employees, the near-term funding status of the Pension
Fund will further improve due to the receipt of $6.1 billion in a lump sum withdrawal
liability payment and the transfer of certain early retirement liabilities from the Central
States Plan to the UPS Plan. Our actuaries' estimate that after the transfer of liabilities
and the UPS payment, the Pension Fund's funding ratio as of January 1, 2008 should
exceed 70% and may reach 75% if we meet our actuarial assumptions.

The new pension legislation does not require any automatic reduction in benefits.
Although the new law permits limited reductions in certain circumstances, they are
certainly not mandated. What is required is that the Trustees must establish a plan to
improve funding and provide two alternatives to the bargaining parties to achieve that
end. The first alternative must resolve underfunding through increased contributions
without any further benefit modifications. This is the plan the Trustees have
implemented by requiring contribution rate increases of 7% and 8% per annum for 2006
and 2007, respectively. This plan has been incorporated into the collective bargaining
agreements by the vast majority of employers and local unions whose agreements have
been renewed since its adoption. This plan avoids the need for any further cuts in
current benefits for participants under those collective bargaining agreements. The
second alternative must resolve the underfunding by a combination of benefit
modifications and contribution increases. Which alternative applies depends upon the
outcome of collective bargaining. To date the vast majority of collective bargaining
agreement renewals have included the increased contribution rates. We fully expect
that the vast majority of local unions and employers will continue to support the Fund's
funding improvement plan without any reduction of benefits. As such, we also fully
expect that the net pension accrual for the vast majority of our active participants will
also continue to increase as contribution rates increase in the future.

In short, the rumors are false. The new pension legislation does not require any
automatic reduction in benefits. There are no plans to reduce benefits for any active or
retired participant and the Pension Fund will not be taken over by any governmental
agency.

Later this year, the Fund will hold its annual update meeting for Local Unions to
keep you informed on the issues of the PPA, the tentative UPS' withdrawal from the
Pension Fund, and the Fund's financial status. The date and time for this meeting will
be announced at a later date.

Sincerely,

BOARD OF TRUSTEES, CENTRAL STATES,
SOUTHEAST AND SOUTHWEST AREAS
PENSION FUND, BY:

Thomas C. Nyhan
Executive Director

[ Original 2-page 968kb PDF file available at
http://www.centralstates.org ]
 
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