This is actually a more serious issue than most think

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by dannyboy, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    This type of crap is much more widespread than is reported. WE have had this happen here several times. They hand you what looks like a bank check, but it really is a good fake.

    UPS needs to do some training on this instead of hanging the driver out to dry on the costs.

    This really hurts when you have to pay UPS back several thousands of dollars.

  2. bigbrownhen

    bigbrownhen New Member

    Didn't read the label properly? Was it supposed to be certified funds? I don't get why he is responsible for the amount if it was a fake check.
  3. ol'browneye

    ol'browneye Active Member

    The UPS spokesperson says he didn't look at the label properly. Could it have said "cashier's check or money order only"? If it did and he accepted regular bank checks I guess he screwed up. The article never really specifies.

    But I do agree with you that criminals have gotten very good at printing fake documents, checks, etc. with the computer programs available now.
    I don't know the exact wording but I believe the contract states that a driver will not be held responsible for accepting a fake check if any reasonable person would have accepted it.
  4. cino321

    cino321 Active Member

    We have a lot of these little mom and pop clothing stores that are opening up lately around here. Nine times out of 10 the COD's are all Certified Check or Money Order Only.

    What I have been (and a few other drivers in my center) doing lately is only accepting money orders from them, whether the package is money order/bank check or just a regular COD, just to kind of cover our own asses and try our best to prevent this from happening. I'm not saying it's okay, but there are a few of these places that have already tried to get one over on us on more than one occasion. Basically I walk into the store with a infonotice that has the shipper and amount writtien on it, ask them if they have it, and if not tell them they need a money order filled out tomorrow. That's it.

    Actually we have one store in our center that threatened a drivers life because he wouldnt leave the package without the check and come back later.
  5. TheDick

    TheDick Member

    Security came out to explain the rash of good fake checks going around. But never did he say that the driver would have to pay cuz even he admitted the checls were REAL good fakes.
  6. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    THey have successfully made drivers in our area pay back UPS on situations like this.

    And were in the process of trying to make me do it when I left.

    I will post the info later on when I have the time. They are good, very good.

    Currently on another project, and this weekend is the 33rd aniv with my much better half. couldnt do much last year, gonna take a few days to make up for it this year.

  7. JustTired

    JustTired free at last....... now you not only have to be the 'perfect driver' with 'perfect' driving skills and 'perfect' methods.........and be able to perform to 'perfection' for 10+ hrs/ have to have the skills of an FBI forgery expert.


    As far as accepting money orders instead of checks.....those can be forged just as easily. Unless, of course, you go along with them when they purchase it.
  8. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    There is supposed to be an update to WorldShip which will indicate whether a COD is certified funds or not.

    It sounds to me like this COD was supposed to be certified funds.
  9. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    This update that was agreed to in our last contract and would take a programmer 30 minutes to accomplish. Imagine that, it's not done yet.
  10. Channahon

    Channahon New Member

    Although unfortunate the driver has to repay $1,000 in these harsh ecomomic times, he grieved the charge and the union agreed he is accountable to UPS.

    "All of our drivers are trained to read the labels. The driver never read the label properly on the package. He took this to a grievance panel with a union and agreed with us," said Dan McMackin, Spokesman for UPS.
    So instead of paying the $20,000 Daniels owes, he'll only be responsible for a portion of what UPS lost. The suspects names can't be released at this time. But they will face forgery of a financial instrument, theft and engaging in organized activity.
  11. brownrodster

    brownrodster New Member

    What does 'certified funds' mean? I'm being serious. I haven't heard that term before.

    I guess if I had a package that said 'certified funds' I'd call the center to find out what that means.
  12. over9five

    over9five Senior Member Staff Member

    We had a driver get into a little trouble for this. He had a COD that called for "certified check". The company gave him a company check that was stamped "Certified".
    Well, it turns out they stamped it themselves.
    The driver did not have to pay (I assume because there is no training for us to be able to identify a certified check).

    And to answer your question:
    I have no idea what an actual certified check is.
  13. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    IT used to be that you could go down to the bank, and they would "certify" your check on its face. All that meant was that you had the funds in the bank to cover that check, and they would put a hold on that amount until the check cleared.

    THen there were too many dishonest people doing it themselves, so that no longer is proper.

    A bank check drawn on a bank itself, or a money order like you can get anywhere are considered certified funds. You pay for them in cash, and the bank then makes the check good.

    Problem is that the thieves are really good at printing up these documents, and they look exactly like the real thing. And an additional problem is that check printing stuff is out there, along with blank check paper available from any office store.

    The problem also lies with UPS knowingly continuing to do business with this type of customer. IT is a serious issue company wide. And more and more, UPS is looking to the drivers for repayment.


    I would suggest that until I see the evidence in this case, the $20,000 Daniels owes is something of a assumption on our parts. The spokes person agreed with UPS, so then why would it not be the 20 grand, instead of just one. Part of that I believe are the limits of the driver set by the contract.

    But the fact still remains, If he took what the tag suggested, and the diad prompted, then his liability should be zero. If he took two personal or company checks instead of certified funds, then he should be held responsible for at least part of the loss.

  14. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    Maybe I`m reading this story wrong but these people are setting up brick and mortar stores using fraudulent means? If they have arrested these other folks have the inventory been recovered therefore minimizing UPS` loss?
    Tell you what if I got taken with these high tech false checks and such and was expected to pay for it the next days news would be about this store burning to the ground.....from some sort of electrical fire of course. They probably paid the electrician with a bad check too.
  15. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Some years ago, when I was an p/t air driver, I screwed up when I accepted a company check when a certified was called for. I did not think it was a bad idea, all the info about the stop was correct; the company's name was on the door, the owner showed me his id.
    Boy did I get quite a bit of heat for that error. The only good part was UPS finally got their $$ after LP went to the guy's home and escorted him to his bank.
  16. rocket man

    rocket man Well-Known Member

    I have a stop....small ratty apt 5 diffrent names started coming up the first day i delivered 2 boxes DEEP DOWN I had a feeling it wasnt right i got a signature any way the 2and day i had more boxes now 5 i went to apt requested a signature none required. that person wasnt there i put not in 1 had ups security checkinto it IT WAS A MAJOR FRAUD CASE.NEVER DELIVERD THERE AGAIN. and i still dont. i just return pkgscenter put it on will call . Funny thing they never pick up ther stuff becarefull out there. if you dont feel right about dont deliver it 3 weeks later i get a follow up for the two boxes they signed for.. nothing wrong with not delivering packages as long as you sheet it .send a message on diad that way its documented .side note now ther using new names. ( DO YOU NO WHERE YOUR CREDIT CARD IS)
  17. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    There is no firm MO on how these people operate. Some have a "store front", others dont. But they are looking to take someone for a ride.

    There is a whole underground world that depends on this type of activity, having innocent "marks" get taken, and they walk away with thousands.

    Sometimes they get caught, and the stuff recovered, other times, not.

    Unless I had Cod's for a person on a regular basis, or the amount was small (under $100.00), I would be very suspicious on the delivery, and very very careful about what I took.

  18. some1else

    some1else Active Member

    i know the ups rules stipulate cashiers check/ money order and thats what i look for.

    in your PRIVATE dealings always require a POSTAL MONEY order. that way if the sale goes bad etc. it is mail fraud and the postmaster will investigate for you :)

    i do alot of buying/selling online and since i have started postal money order only i have had 0 burns. alot of people refused to deal on those conditions though and i assume a few of those was scammers!
  19. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    some1else, may I suggest PayPal? I am an ocassional E-bayer and have a PayPal account and it is so convenient.

    BLACKBOX Life is a Highway...

    It's been awhile since I had a "secure funds" only. Does anybody know if a money order or cashiers check come with a "watermark"? Supposedly you should be to see that mark with any light source. Watermarks I hear are hard to duplicate.