This saves money?

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
Scratch,
I know you could nothing about leaving the building, but did you at least get in your cars and start sorting, checking for misloads? Please tell me you did not stand around and do nothing in your car and just stood there waiting on a package to trickle down.

Before you answer - please leave out anything about the cars were too full - preloader had a crappy load - etc, etc.

My car was already checked for missorts by a Preload Supervisor. We did set up our first sections stop for stop, but that only takes few minutes. I only noticed four Preload employees waiting to unload and sort the late load, they should have put some drivers in there to speed things up. During this wait, I got a total of two Next Day Savers. Most of the late air on my belt went to one car. I am a residential driver, so there was plenty of empty space in my car. I seldom see blown out cars anymore, thats how it was all the time when I started driving Package 25 years ago. We had more service failures due to being held in the building than if we had been allowed to hit the road and get the air already there delivered on time.
 
When we were put on the PAS/ED system, we were ordered to no longer go into our trucks and "manicure" the load. We were told it was no longer allowed as we have a system that does away with misloads. Some drivers still do it, but not me. I just send a message whenever I find a misload.
 

raceanoncr

Well-Known Member
Please tell me you did not stand around and do nothing in your car and just stood there waiting on a package to trickle down.

Before you answer - please leave out anything about the cars were too full - preloader had a crappy load - etc, etc.


I just stood around and did nothing in my car and I just stood there waiting on a package to tricle down.


The cars were too full-preloader had a crappy load-etc.
 

ol'browneye

Well-Known Member
Scratch,

We had about 50 drivers standing behind our packages cars wasting almost an hour for packages to trickle down the belt.

I know you could nothing about leaving the building, but did you at least get in your cars and start sorting, checking for misloads? Please tell me you did not stand around and do nothing in your car and just stood there waiting on a package to trickle down.

Before you answer - please leave out anything about the cars were too full - preloader had a crappy load - etc, etc.

In case you missed the memo, drivers don't get paid to think nor or they allowed to think for themselves anymore. We are to work as instructed.
Just another by-product of the all powerful, all knowing EDD/PAS system that the company raved about to the stockholders! You know, the system that saves UPS so much money?
 

JustTired

free at last.......
Here's my six keys to a successful delivery business
The list is not conclusive. Feel free to add your own.
1. When making decisions, put the customer first, not the stockholder.

2. Technology has no vision. It can't see a customers' needs. The 'vision' must come from those that control the technology.

3. The 'numbers', 'standards' and 'goals' are a necessary part of business. What isn't necessary is the belief that they are the answer to all problems. They should actually be used to point out problems. Determining whether the problem is the measure or the actual work performed is key to any meaningful use of such measures.

4. Listen to your employees. When there is a majority consensus that a problem exists, it should be taken seriously. To ignore it only creates more problems which tend to multiply by factors.

5. Accept that your employees have a personal life outside of work. An employee who is content with their personal life will be more content with their work life. And a more content employee could translate into more content customers.

6. Never forget the old axiom: "Service....it's all we have to give."
 

tarbar66

Well-Known Member
Here's my six keys to a successful delivery business
The list is not conclusive. Feel free to add your own.
1. When making decisions, put the customer first, not the stockholder.

2. Technology has no vision. It can't see a customers' needs. The 'vision' must come from those that control the technology.

3. The 'numbers', 'standards' and 'goals' are a necessary part of business. What isn't necessary is the belief that they are the answer to all problems. They should actually be used to point out problems. Determining whether the problem is the measure or the actual work performed is key to any meaningful use of such measures.

4. Listen to your employees. When there is a majority consensus that a problem exists, it should be taken seriously. To ignore it only creates more problems which tend to multiply by factors.

5. Accept that your employees have a personal life outside of work. An employee who is content with their personal life will be more content with their work life. And a more content employee could translate into more content customers.

6. Never forget the old axiom: "Service....it's all we have to give."

You should be on the BOD!

Wait a minute, you have common sense, I better get of the computer now!
 

teresarice

Active Member
Yes its all lies about the numbers . We do the same thing in are small center. Put down training meetings , safty meetings etc. to make the numbers look good. So If we are taught to lie about all these things by management and its ok . Why then do we get fired for doing the exact same thing in diad ? (post about terminated for dr per customer ) whats good for the goose should be good for the gander ?
 

PobreCarlos

Well-Known Member
Don't think anyone disputes that "service" is the number one priority. However, in case there are those who haven't noticed, "service" COSTS! Or, more to the point, as a business, you can't continue to provide a service unless you make money at it.

This is where "listening to the employees", and "employees have a personal life", etc. comes into play. It's all fine and dandy to listen to your employees IF they're willing to absorb the cost of doing so. And, equally, it's fine and dandy to talk of giving the employees a personal life if they put the business in a position to allow it to do so.

How's about it? Are the employees as a whole willing to take a cut in compensation in order to allow for service improvements? Or a similar cut in compensation in order to make if possible for them to have a better personal life? Funny...but I've yet to see the union negotiate on such a basis. It's never, to my knowledge, put "service" or "family life" above getting all it could financially out of the company.

Lastly, I'd like to play for a moment with the comment of...

"And a more content employee could translate into more content customers."

...in that, minus outside influences, I've no doubt that the company could fairly easily find employees that were "content" with the work environment and what the company had to offer at a more competitive price. By that I mean that every time a union member talks about "service", "family life", and "customer satisfaction", they need to look in the mirror, take a deep breath, and admit to themselves that THEY were a prime factor in making conditions as they are.

No such thing as a free lunch. And, I'm sorry to say, putting someone on the B.O.D. who thinks that there is, isn't going to accomplish much of anything but help to bring the company - which offers a livelihood directly to close to half a million people, and indirectly perhaps millions! - down.
 

PobreCarlos

Well-Known Member
evilleace;

Curious, could you tell me how you *KNOW* that, as opposed to speculating that it COULD be the case? I mean actual KNOWLEDGE is a very specific matter, isn't it?

Seems to me that, for an individual to HAVE such "knowledge", he would have to have to some experience to base it on. You have much experience with union UPS employees taking pay cuts, do you?

That said, bear in mind that direct compensation isn't the only service "cost"; just the rigmarole of dealing with an organization like the Teamsters (increased hassle of management, retention of "employees" that the company finds useless, or worse, contract negotiations, increased financing costs due to the perceived burden of being "unionized", etc., etc) have a tremendous impact on costs....and thus on what level of service can be provided!

Anyway, all I'm saying is that, minus Teamster involvement/member demands, it would be a lot easier for management to provide MORE service at a CHEAPER price and with a GREATER profit than currently. Not saying that's the way - given employee demands - that it SHOULD be. But I think it EXTREMELY naive to believe that management is the biggest problem in terms of providing service; rather, management tends to be the juggler keeping up in the air both the service and the cost/income factors that make that service possible. Meanwhile, all too often, the organized employees as a body are trying to interrupt that juggling process.

Example? Well, what's the biggest service interruption at UPS that you can remember? Think hard. And think who caused it. And if you say it was the entity that "forced" the other entity to cause by not giving into their demands, then I suggest you get back to that mirror I postulated in a previous post.
 

UPSBOT

When UPS Was Fun
This is where "listening to the employees", and "employees have a personal life", etc. comes into play. It's all fine and dandy to listen to your employees IF they're willing to absorb the cost of doing so. And, equally, it's fine and dandy to talk of giving the employees a personal life if they put the business in a position to allow it to do so.

How's about it? Are the employees as a whole willing to take a cut in compensation in order to allow for service improvements? Or a similar cut in compensation in order to make if possible for them to have a better personal life? Funny...but I've yet to see the union negotiate on such a basis. It's never, to my knowledge, put "service" or "family life" above getting all it could financially out of the company.

Lastly, I'd like to play for a moment with the comment of...

"And a more content employee could translate into more content customers."

...in that, minus outside influences, I've no doubt that the company could fairly easily find employees that were "content" with the work environment and what the company had to offer at a more competitive price. By that I mean that every time a union member talks about "service", "family life", and "customer satisfaction", they need to look in the mirror, take a deep breath, and admit to themselves that THEY were a prime factor in making conditions as they are.

No such thing as a free lunch. And, I'm sorry to say, putting someone on the B.O.D. who thinks that there is, isn't going to accomplish much of anything but help to bring the company - which offers a livelihood directly to close to half a million people, and indirectly perhaps millions! - down.[/QUOTE]


I'm willing to give up any hours after 5:00:knockedout:
 

evilleace

Well-Known Member
Okay pobre how could UPS provide better service if the Union members took a paycut. Would UPS add more routes to take stops off of drivers, would they have an earlier start time. What would they do to increase service because the things I said would also cost money and you and I both know/assume/speculate/think/consider what ever you want to say, all UPS and corporate care about is profit.
 

PobreCarlos

Well-Known Member
evilleace;


Yes, those things WOULD cost money! But say the drivers took a $5/hr pay cut along with a $3/hr benefit cut (and if the CSPF drivers had done that 20 years ago, and gotten themselves in a properly managed pension, they would STILL have been ahead!)

Now multiply that just by the number of drivers in the (domestic) company; not sure what that number is, but for the sake of argument, let's say about 80,000. Take that times 45 hours/week x 52 weeks per year, and what do you come up with?

I'll tell ya' what you come up with....a Helluva' great financial "window" to provide better service, at less cost, and at more profit.

Would the employees go along with that? Well, based on past experience, that's one bit of speculation that comes real close to "knowledge"; think we both assume correctly that, unless the crap really hit the fan, and management and the union combined to put the company in the crapper, like YRCW, or CFWY, etc., it just isn't going to happen.

SHOULD even the employees go along with that? Can't say; it's THEIR decision. But, so far, the decision THEY have made has imposed a cost to which company management has responded the best way they know how to provide and/or maintain service.

All I'm saying is that to maintain that the company should "pay more attention to service" with out recognizing that the PRIME component of providing/maintaining that service is the cost issue, which is PRIMARILY in the hands of the union members is simply silly! The Teamsters think better service could/should be provided, then they should make that their priority. (they might start by organizing the competition which, in case you hadn't noticed, provides approximately equal - and in many cases better - service because of substantially less costs, in spite of lagging decades in experience. But far be it from the Teamsters to give more than lip-service to actually doing any MEANINGFUL organizing)
 

evilleace

Well-Known Member
Ok how about this all management take a $5 dollar an hr paycut, or do away with half of the pt sups that would save a lot of money as most of them don't do a whole lot anyway. Or at least cut their guarantee down to 20 hrs instead of 27.5. The union employees earn every dollar they make can you say that about management.
 

Dragon

Package Center Manager
The union employees earn every dollar they make can you say that about management.

Not by a long shot!!
 

PobreCarlos

Well-Known Member
evilleace;

First of all, management isn't paid on a per hour basis. And, on the basis of hours worked (or, more to the point, in terms of responsibility), they're probably already woefully underpaid in relation to the management of firms similar in size and scope. Second, you seem to forget that management - and past management - are the primary owners of the company; it quite literally is *THEIR* company. It's for them that the company exists, and it's on the basis of continued profitability TO THEM that it continues to exist. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective) it doesn't exist for the employees who, to put it bluntly, are there only to serve the owners/managers. From that position, could you, for example, starve your children so that you could pay the guy that mowed your grass more than he was competitively worth? Or, if you're already paying the guy who cuts your grass more than the market rate, could you justify his complaints that you ought to take the food out of your childrens' mouths so you could pay him to provide a better "service" when you know, in your heart, that he's already overpaid in comparison with other similarly situated grass cutters? Personally, I doubt it.

Which brings us to a third point; management is COMPETIVELY compensated. There are no labor laws which protect them when they're inefficient of cost-ineffective, nor are they (by law) allowed to bargain collectively. What they make, they've competitively EARNED on the basis of their individual market value. Can union members generally say that? Think, for example, that UPS couldn't go on the open market and hire competent drivers cheaper than what the union wage demands? (personally, I've "been there, done that", and KNOW the answer to that one)

Which brings us back to your last claim; i.e. - "The union employees earn every dollar they make". Not trying to belittle UPS's union employees here, because I'm quite willing to concede that the VAST majority of them work hard and efficiently. But do you SERIOUSLY believe that UPS couldn't go out and hire NON-union labor and train it to do the job just as effectively at a fair MARKET wage? REALLY?!? Or that ALL "union employees" earn every dollar they make? By that do you mean to tell me that they're aren't sandbaggers out there? That there AREN'T those union "employees" that company feels it could do better WITHOUT? If so, why is the prospect of termination the topic of so many threads on this board? And do you really think that the company would want to get rid of employees who are EARNING their keep as EMPLOYEES (and remember what an employee is; someone who serves the will of his EMPLOYER, not his own!)

Lastly, let me reiterate that I fully understand where the union is coming from in demanding high compensation, etc.. But if members of the union are maintaining that their cost doesn't have anything - or even isn't the PRIMARY factor - in sustainable service levels, then they're simply out of touch with reality. It's THEIR decision that THEY made; not someone else's.

As a footnote; if you think management - or, more specifically, p/t supervisors "don't do a whole lot anyway", then why aren't you - and those like you - jumping at the chance to take those positions? And why do threads like current one about "Reasons why a driver would want to go into management" (or however it's titled) exist?

Food for thought.
 

browniehound

Well-Known Member
evilleace;

Curious, could you tell me how you *KNOW* that, as opposed to speculating that it COULD be the case? I mean actual KNOWLEDGE is a very specific matter, isn't it?

Seems to me that, for an individual to HAVE such "knowledge", he would have to have to some experience to base it on. You have much experience with union UPS employees taking pay cuts, do you?

That said, bear in mind that direct compensation isn't the only service "cost"; just the rigmarole of dealing with an organization like the Teamsters (increased hassle of management, retention of "employees" that the company finds useless, or worse, contract negotiations, increased financing costs due to the perceived burden of being "unionized", etc., etc) have a tremendous impact on costs....and thus on what level of service can be provided!

Anyway, all I'm saying is that, minus Teamster involvement/member demands, it would be a lot easier for management to provide MORE service at a CHEAPER price and with a GREATER profit than currently. Not saying that's the way - given employee demands - that it SHOULD be. But I think it EXTREMELY naive to believe that management is the biggest problem in terms of providing service; rather, management tends to be the juggler keeping up in the air both the service and the cost/income factors that make that service possible. Meanwhile, all too often, the organized employees as a body are trying to interrupt that juggling process.

Example? Well, what's the biggest service interruption at UPS that you can remember? Think hard. And think who caused it. And if you say it was the entity that "forced" the other entity to cause by not giving into their demands, then I suggest you get back to that mirror I postulated in a previous post.


I agree in theory, but if you pushed your non-union employees as UPS pushes its union employees and paid them non-union wages, most people would leave UPS and UPS would lack the productive work force it now enjoys. It appears to be a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
 

JimJimmyJames

Big Time Feeder Driver
But once all the jobs that created the "middle class" in America are destroyed, it will be easy for any company to get labor at the right price.

I just don't know who will be buying the products and services that are required to keep our consumer economy afloat. At least at the level we have grown accustomed to.
 
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