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<blockquote data-quote="PobreCarlos" data-source="post: 626534" data-attributes="member: 16651"><p>soberups;</p><p> </p><p>Again, Teamsters are not - repeat, *NOT* - the "hardest working and most productive employees in the industry". If they were, companies in the industry would be falling all over themselves in order to hire them. But, in case you hadn't noticed, the fact is that they're avoided like the plague. Nor do they "earn every penny [they] make". If they did, there wouldn't be example after example after example of employers that hired Teamsters having to go under BECAUSE they hired Teamsters. </p><p> </p><p>Which brings us to your contention that...</p><p> </p><p>"As employees....<em>our </em>best interests would<em> not</em> be served by being a part of your fantasy" (supposedly meaning NOT being Teamsters)"</p><p> </p><p>...to which I would reply, "Oh, REALLY!?!?!?" Tell me of ALL the companies in the transportation industry in which being Teamsters has, over the long term, BENEFITED the employees? Give me a big count of 'em now, would ya'? Start out with all those remaining in the transportation industry that employee over a hundred thousand Teamsters. Then 10,000 Teamsters. Then on to one thousand...and so-on and so-on. The point? Well, I think it's obvious; being "Teamster" is *NOT* beneficial to the average transportation employee. As a matter of fact, it's the "kiss of death". How many millions of Teamster jobs need to be pissed-away before guys like you figure that out? And how is it that "hardest working and most productive employees in the industry" KEEP getting their asses kicked in terms of cost-effectiveness (the only meaningful measurement of "hardworking" and "productive" that I'm aware of). The FDX employees been "less productive", have they? If so, then why is the company that employees been so much MORE productive in terms of capital valuation?</p><p> </p><p>In short, I'd propose that there are probably well more than a million once-upon-a-time Teamsters out there who might think that their interests WOULD have been best served by taking part in my "fantasy"...and *NOT* having their jobs pissed-away by the Teamsters union. You think otherwise?</p><p> </p><p>Over the long term, I can't help but believe your claim of "**WE** [my emphasis added] are a union workforce. That isn't going to change" may be HALF correct. I fully expect a lot of the members of the Teamsters who currently work for UPS to remain "union"; I don't, however, expect them to work for UPS forever. Again, does it need to be pointed out that the company is predominately non-Teamster now? Or that the company is *NOT* primarily a "union workforce"? Iin that sense, you're claim that "we are a union workforce" isn't even correct NOW. And I think from the trend visible over the last few years one can see which way the future is going.</p><p> </p><p>Lastly, 10 years ago the stock did *NOT* - get that? did *NOT*!!! - skyrocket in value. Rather, when the market was allowed to place a value on it, it migrated to it's natural LEVEL of value; a level of value which I and my associates, through our acceptance of risk created. </p><p> </p><p>Then "lastly, lastly" [grin...wrote "lastly" a little to early, didn't I?), regarding your comment of....</p><p> </p><p>"UPS has continued and will continue to be a successful, profitable company even with its supposed "union cost disadvantage"</p><p> </p><p>...are you willing to guarantee the validity of that comment'? I ask only because I've heard so many other Teamsters over the years now talk down others "fantasies" when it came to defending their involvement with the companies that hired them. You know, guys from Consolidated, Red Star, Airborne, McLean, PIE, Interstate Motor Freight, Carolina Freight Systems, etc., etc., and - most recently, YRCW. And it turned out that they didn't know what the hell they were talking about. So what makes YOU different? What makes YOU know on what basis UPS will continue...or not continue, for that matter? Just curious.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="PobreCarlos, post: 626534, member: 16651"] soberups; Again, Teamsters are not - repeat, *NOT* - the "hardest working and most productive employees in the industry". If they were, companies in the industry would be falling all over themselves in order to hire them. But, in case you hadn't noticed, the fact is that they're avoided like the plague. Nor do they "earn every penny [they] make". If they did, there wouldn't be example after example after example of employers that hired Teamsters having to go under BECAUSE they hired Teamsters. Which brings us to your contention that... "As employees....[I]our [/I]best interests would[I] not[/I] be served by being a part of your fantasy" (supposedly meaning NOT being Teamsters)" ...to which I would reply, "Oh, REALLY!?!?!?" Tell me of ALL the companies in the transportation industry in which being Teamsters has, over the long term, BENEFITED the employees? Give me a big count of 'em now, would ya'? Start out with all those remaining in the transportation industry that employee over a hundred thousand Teamsters. Then 10,000 Teamsters. Then on to one thousand...and so-on and so-on. The point? Well, I think it's obvious; being "Teamster" is *NOT* beneficial to the average transportation employee. As a matter of fact, it's the "kiss of death". How many millions of Teamster jobs need to be pissed-away before guys like you figure that out? And how is it that "hardest working and most productive employees in the industry" KEEP getting their asses kicked in terms of cost-effectiveness (the only meaningful measurement of "hardworking" and "productive" that I'm aware of). The FDX employees been "less productive", have they? If so, then why is the company that employees been so much MORE productive in terms of capital valuation? In short, I'd propose that there are probably well more than a million once-upon-a-time Teamsters out there who might think that their interests WOULD have been best served by taking part in my "fantasy"...and *NOT* having their jobs pissed-away by the Teamsters union. You think otherwise? Over the long term, I can't help but believe your claim of "**WE** [my emphasis added] are a union workforce. That isn't going to change" may be HALF correct. I fully expect a lot of the members of the Teamsters who currently work for UPS to remain "union"; I don't, however, expect them to work for UPS forever. Again, does it need to be pointed out that the company is predominately non-Teamster now? Or that the company is *NOT* primarily a "union workforce"? Iin that sense, you're claim that "we are a union workforce" isn't even correct NOW. And I think from the trend visible over the last few years one can see which way the future is going. Lastly, 10 years ago the stock did *NOT* - get that? did *NOT*!!! - skyrocket in value. Rather, when the market was allowed to place a value on it, it migrated to it's natural LEVEL of value; a level of value which I and my associates, through our acceptance of risk created. Then "lastly, lastly" [grin...wrote "lastly" a little to early, didn't I?), regarding your comment of.... "UPS has continued and will continue to be a successful, profitable company even with its supposed "union cost disadvantage" ...are you willing to guarantee the validity of that comment'? I ask only because I've heard so many other Teamsters over the years now talk down others "fantasies" when it came to defending their involvement with the companies that hired them. You know, guys from Consolidated, Red Star, Airborne, McLean, PIE, Interstate Motor Freight, Carolina Freight Systems, etc., etc., and - most recently, YRCW. And it turned out that they didn't know what the hell they were talking about. So what makes YOU different? What makes YOU know on what basis UPS will continue...or not continue, for that matter? Just curious. [/QUOTE]
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