Time For Teamsters

TUT

Well-Known Member
Ups Ground is competitive because fdx ground CAN'T cut more on the price. We don't have the infrastructure to handle much more volume. It's being built and once capacity is there the cost will be cut when needed. For now its make as much as we can off what we have. Just maintain volume with slow growth.

Correct that is the answer. When they get more capacity, it would only change if regionals make a serious dent. Otherwise your logic still applies, "Why take less, when you can have the same amount for more". You are right I believe, Fedex isn't there to want to take it all away from UPS asap. It's more of a long-term "chip away at the stone" approach. One slide about volume they put out, lived right in that WS sweet spot... 10% year over year growth. Even if they could get more, they rather not and simply be consistent and chip away.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Ups Ground is competitive because fdx ground CAN'T cut more on the price. We don't have the infrastructure to handle much more volume. It's being built and once capacity is there the cost will be cut when needed. For now its make as much as we can off what we have. Just maintain volume with slow growth.

Have you compared prices? FedEx Ground is much cheaper than UPS. No one is saying it will happen overnight. But Ground infrastructure is much more extensive than even 5 years ago. And it will continue to grow. FedEx is already telling Ground contractors to be ready for significant volume increases. What you aren't realizing is UPS wants to maintain it's profit margins. If it has to pay great wages and benefits, and FedEx Ground is chipping away at it's volume, guess where UPS is seeing less? In it's profits. Think they're going to just sit and watch their profits diminish year after year?

Kool-aid drinking is a two way street. Anyone who believes that FedEx is a total mess that needs to be saved and that Wall Street has no idea about how things are run is totally out to lunch. And Ground hasn't taken all of UPS's freight for the very reason that they are much smaller than UPS and couldn't even begin to handle that volume. They've grown to the point that they are starting to make inroads and will continue to. Many UPS customers have been loyal customers for generations and aren't going to just jump ship or don't even know there's a reason to jump ship. That's what salesmen are for and you'll see plenty of movement as companies become aware.

It would be truly amazing if some thought was given to posts by some instead of the usual knee jerk reactions. Just because UPS is able to pay big money now doesn't mean they always will if a competitor severely undercuts them. And it doesn't mean that just because they can pay big money that FedEx can too. FedEx could do better, no doubt. But in all honesty the reason guys like Fred S eat our lunch is because guys like us too often think with our hearts and not our heads. And anyone who has any training, education, or years of experience can look at these kind of posts and just shake their heads.
 

MAKAVELI

Well-Known Member
Where do you think that volume will be coming from. Express not UPS. That is in their plans to move as much freight from Express to Ground and downsize Express.
 

Glorifiedpackmule

Well-Known Member
I don't see UPS paying FedEx Ground wages. I do see top out being lower but I don't think it's gonna be 10 bucks an hour. UPS is a much different beast than FedEx. It operates much smoother than the FedExers here give it credit for. Its not managed the same. I've worked for both as a driver and pkg handler. I can say with Confidence that UPS is much further along at least technology wise than FedEx. Years ahead. Whatever we're doing at FedEx Express or Ground right now UPS was doing 7 to 8 years ago. When I left UPS we were already using PAS. I got to FedEx and was given a tracker and a signature record. It was culture shock. They've always been a step ahead. I think what you're going to see from FedEx right now is volume raped from the employees at the Express division and given to non-employees at Ground. Not so much UPS. Not yet.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Where do you think that volume will be coming from. Express not UPS. That is in their plans to move as much freight from Express to Ground and downsize Express.

Well, yes, that's been talked about extensively here. But it's also in their plans to be the top delivery company overall, not just the largest overnight service. They intend to take as much business from UPS as possible. It won't happen right away, and probably not anytime soon. But they can only take so much from Express, and Wall Street demands positive growth. So they'll continue to go after new business wherever they can find it.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Well, yes, that's been talked about extensively here. But it's also in their plans to be the top delivery company overall, not just the largest overnight service. They intend to take as much business from UPS as possible. It won't happen right away, and probably not anytime soon. But they can only take so much from Express, and Wall Street demands positive growth. So they'll continue to go after new business wherever they can find it.

We were told yesterday that we are losing Cooper Vision, which is a $6M account. FedEx undercut us by $1M. We have already lost Walmart. The contractor model has them in an optimal position to cannibalize our major accounts.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
I don't see UPS paying FedEx Ground wages. I do see top out being lower but I don't think it's gonna be 10 bucks an hour. UPS is a much different beast than FedEx. It operates much smoother than the FedExers here give it credit for. Its not managed the same. I've worked for both as a driver and pkg handler. I can say with Confidence that UPS is much further along at least technology wise than FedEx. Years ahead. Whatever we're doing at FedEx Express or Ground right now UPS was doing 7 to 8 years ago. When I left UPS we were already using PAS. I got to FedEx and was given a tracker and a signature record. It was culture shock. They've always been a step ahead. I think what you're going to see from FedEx right now is volume raped from the employees at the Express division and given to non-employees at Ground. Not so much UPS. Not yet.

What's been mentioned here is UPS will have a two-tiered pay system with newhires topping out at less than current drivers and taking longer to top out. No one is saying FedEx Ground wages. It's been pointed out that as hard as UPS drivers work it may be difficult to keep people who make considerably less than current drivers. No one has said 10 bucks an hour unless I missed it somewhere. I'd quit FedEx if they only offered $10hr, can't imagine anyone working at UPS for that.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
There is no way they would start or top out drivers at $10/hr. I am talking about $15/hr to start with a 5 year progression to $25/hr. With PAS/EDD/Orion, it is much easier to bring new hires up to speed and area knowledge is not nearly as much of an asset as it used to be. I am also talking about starting new PT hires at $10-12/hr with no benefits.
 

Glorifiedpackmule

Well-Known Member
There is no way they would start or top out drivers at $10/hr. I am talking about $15/hr to start with a 5 year progression to $25/hr. With PAS/EDD/Orion, it is much easier to bring new hires up to speed and area knowledge is not nearly as much of an asset as it used to be. I am also talking about starting new PT hires at $10-12/hr with no benefits.

I would give an arm and a leg to work for a company that tops out at 25/hr in 5 years. It would still be a better deal than either FedEx opco.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
There is no way they would start or top out drivers at $10/hr. I am talking about $15/hr to start with a 5 year progression to $25/hr. With PAS/EDD/Orion, it is much easier to bring new hires up to speed and area knowledge is not nearly as much of an asset as it used to be. I am also talking about starting new PT hires at $10-12/hr with no benefits.
Are you insane?
 

STFXG

Well-Known Member
Well, yes, that's been talked about extensively here. But it's also in their plans to be the top delivery company overall, not just the largest overnight service. They intend to take as much business from UPS as possible. It won't happen right away, and probably not anytime soon. But they can only take so much from Express, and Wall Street demands positive growth. So they'll continue to go after new business wherever they can find it.

We were told yesterday that we are losing Cooper Vision, which is a $6M account. FedEx undercut us by $1M. We have already lost Walmart. The contractor model has them in an optimal position to cannibalize our major accounts.

There's more coming in January... I was told we have held off on 3 big accounts until after peak. Just don't have the capacity.
 

BrownBlue

New Jack
So we will all be dragged down by the contractor scheme. That is what I'm getting from this thread. So then what incentive will Fred ever have to improve compensation for those contractors? None. With all the regional carriers popping up, even the contractors will see their compensation go down over time. It's always been a race to the bottom, because this improves a companies bottom line. I'm just forever thankful that I am part of a collective bargaining unit that will bargain the best deal they can for us, and I'm not just begging for the scraps that the company, out of the kindness of it's soulless shell, is willing to give to us. I feel bad that I can't do more for those stuck in the trenches with no one fighting for them. Fraternally yours, JJ.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
So we will all be dragged down by the contractor scheme. That is what I'm getting from this thread. So then what incentive will Fred ever have to improve compensation for those contractors? None. With all the regional carriers popping up, even the contractors will see their compensation go down over time. It's always been a race to the bottom, because this improves a companies bottom line. I'm just forever thankful that I am part of a collective bargaining unit that will bargain the best deal they can for us, and I'm not just begging for the scraps that the company, out of the kindness of it's soulless shell, is willing to give to us. I feel bad that I can't do more for those stuck in the trenches with no one fighting for them. Fraternally yours, JJ.
That's why these political races are so important. Fred's scheme has to be stopped.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
That's why these political races are so important. Fred's scheme has to be stopped.

Why would it be? It's been upheld in courts. Shipping is a huge cost of doing business. Congress isn't going to make laws to make UPS happy if it pisses off millions of business owners. They'll tell UPS to figure out a way to be competitive or lose out.
 

Glorifiedpackmule

Well-Known Member
It's been almost 14 years since I was rehired. I'm making $18.17hr. $4.40hr less than our topped out couriers and we're on the lowest of 7 payscales. 5 years would be fantastic from my point of view.

Ahhh. Another one of FedEx's employee scams. I live in a fairly expensive city in a fairly expensive part of the state. Guess what pay scale we're on.. B. the lowest of the low. Been here almost a decade and I'm still paid a lower hourly wage than some starting pay in other parts of the country.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
So we will all be dragged down by the contractor scheme. That is what I'm getting from this thread. So then what incentive will Fred ever have to improve compensation for those contractors? None. With all the regional carriers popping up, even the contractors will see their compensation go down over time. It's always been a race to the bottom, because this improves a companies bottom line. I'm just forever thankful that I am part of a collective bargaining unit that will bargain the best deal they can for us, and I'm not just begging for the scraps that the company, out of the kindness of it's soulless shell, is willing to give to us. I feel bad that I can't do more for those stuck in the trenches with no one fighting for them. Fraternally yours, JJ.

I think it's time that the sleeping Brown Giant wakes-up and does something about FedEx Ground. As others have already pointed out, Ground will figure into your contract negotiations because UPS will be offering less based on Ground taking UPS market share. My advice would be for UPS to attack the Ground business model on the basis that it doesn't pass the independent contractor smell test. FedEx Ground non-employees are held to employee standards, managed by FedEx more than their contractor "boss", and essentially are true employees. Once the courts rule that Ground drivers are employees, much of the cost advantage disappears because Fred won't have a bunch of drivers willing to work for $12 per hour with no benefits.

It's time to start worrying about your jobs and take Ground seriously. Look what's happening to us at Express right now.
 

code 019 at ur moms

Active Member
the political races are already completely tied up... if obama or romney decides to lift the RLA status from fedex it will be a complete fluke or an accident and not some kind of conscious policy. neither of the parties care, especially the democratic party which has been taking union money for decades and then telling labor to go **** itself
 
Top