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omega man
Guest
Our Union doesn't recognize any "lock in" based on SPORH either. Your SPORH should vary from day to day. It will also vary considerably as we progress through the year. At least the over\under takes into account some variation in our workday although it affords no time for UPS created problems like poor loads etc. UPS basically can't effectively pin down our performance either way. Any manager worth his salt should know this. The problem is that we have a bunch of retards in management at every level pushing this nonsense. They don't or can't understand and are simply trying to get increased performance through threats, intimidation and harassment. Make sure you sign nothing and rebut any warning letters.
satellitedriver
Moderator
Lock out rides can happen.
Never have had one in our center in my 20+ yrs.
If they are common in your center that is the exception, not the rule.
The numbers he stated were bogus.
I had my lock in ride, twice, but with different areas. My route is now a conglomeration of crap no one else wanted. But instead of wasting my breath trying to show why it was wrong, since I know, and they wont listen, I just jump in the cab, look at the load, cry to my ownself, and pull out of the building.
You cannot take all of A, except the metro, all of C, and all of what B used to be, and make a route. Looks good if you dont know the area. The theory is if it fits load it. I deliver commercial til pick ups, the the late business til 6. Then I do the resi. I also have areas that I wont deliver after 2 so no matter what I do that. Thats my judgement call, Its not safe Im not doing it, until they allow me to carry a weapon, and they wont, so the diad isnt something I feel comfortable with as a weapon. It falls how it does. I dont most of the time mind the OT, I mind it when I am forced to be somewhere not safe at the time I have to do it. With the GPS, I know I can be fired, but thats another story. If I cant fit it in, its not worth my job, or my life to go there and I wont. I told them, they agree, but if they decide to fire me for it, then they do. We are on hold because our building is too small to institute PAS. I dont know if that will help, but its my only hope for a time study. All I know is I have a job, not much family left, two sons, 4 small grandkids, and I plan on seeing them till Im 100. And no pkg, or job will change that.
You cannot take all of A, except the metro, all of C, and all of what B used to be, and make a route. Looks good if you dont know the area. The theory is if it fits load it. I deliver commercial til pick ups, the the late business til 6. Then I do the resi. I also have areas that I wont deliver after 2 so no matter what I do that. Thats my judgement call, Its not safe Im not doing it, until they allow me to carry a weapon, and they wont, so the diad isnt something I feel comfortable with as a weapon. It falls how it does. I dont most of the time mind the OT, I mind it when I am forced to be somewhere not safe at the time I have to do it. With the GPS, I know I can be fired, but thats another story. If I cant fit it in, its not worth my job, or my life to go there and I wont. I told them, they agree, but if they decide to fire me for it, then they do. We are on hold because our building is too small to institute PAS. I dont know if that will help, but its my only hope for a time study. All I know is I have a job, not much family left, two sons, 4 small grandkids, and I plan on seeing them till Im 100. And no pkg, or job will change that.
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CrazyD
Guest
Bogus claim? Why would you think I would make such a thing up? Unless it is some kind of "cool" thing to do in your book that I am just not up on.
It has happened in our center. Cutting through lawns became a big issue. Driver was threatened to be pulled off the road because he went 2 minutes over his lunch during one of the rides.
Now, in UPS's defense our center is one of the worse centers for time. We have problems. In fact, so many people filed about working over 9.5 that a few of our drivers are written up if they work over 8 hours. We figure they are being financially punished, but who knows.
All I wanted to know is if it has happened elsewhere.
It has happened in our center. Cutting through lawns became a big issue. Driver was threatened to be pulled off the road because he went 2 minutes over his lunch during one of the rides.
Now, in UPS's defense our center is one of the worse centers for time. We have problems. In fact, so many people filed about working over 9.5 that a few of our drivers are written up if they work over 8 hours. We figure they are being financially punished, but who knows.
All I wanted to know is if it has happened elsewhere.
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speeddemon
Guest
You cannot be fired for production, or in thier eyes, lack of.
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
.....so, essentially, what you're saying is "our" company has us by the ####'s and can, at a moments notice, arbitrarily and capriciously decide that we aren't ....following methods, working as directed or any one of a number of other excuses, and fire us? Of course, the reason used isn't always the real reason but it looks good on paper.
Why doesn't the same standard apply to management?
I knew a feeder driver whose schedule said that he should 1) fuel his tractor and then 2) hook up his double trailers. The driver did just the exact opposite and got a warning letter for "....failure to follow instructions". Sound rather chicken####?. The job got done with no problem so the only thing a reasonable person could assume is there was a rogue supervisor out to "....teach someone a lesson".
This type of management style doesn't endear the workers to their leaders.
A REASONABLE person would assume the feeder driver was saying friend.U. to the supervisor, I'll do what I want to do, the way I want to do it, and I don't care what you want. I'm a feeder driver and I can do anything I want. Who do you think you are. my boss?
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
Trick,
Just stating what I've seen in the past. I personally never sent a warning letter for methods or failure to follow directions for performance.
Believe it or not, my drivers enjoyed working with me, and pretty much did the job. The drivers that needed a ride, received a ride by my sups, if need be I would get on the car to get the driver's input on his route and attitude.
Now I did fire a driver for not following driving methods, and it stuck. Imagine this scenario.
3rd avoidable accident within 6 months. Follow up rides done immediately after first 2 accidents. The 3rd accident, he was near a major league baseball stadium on game day. Attempted to squeeze in an alley, rather than drive around the block, hooked a dumpster into the side of the package car. Dumpster finally broke loose and slammed into a fan's car.
He called and advised of the accident, but said it was minor scratch on the package car. I waited for him to come in and was able to run my hand inside the scratch from behind the passenger door all the way to the rear of the car.
At the union hall, I had all documentaion for previous rides and union told him ADIOS.
Oh, after I fired him and before his hearing, he called to let me know he had a cocaine problem and went into rehab. He didn't even spend the night, only a few hours in rehab. He admitted he didn't have a cocaine problem, but got ripped off trying to buy some coke.
He lost it all, after 17 years at UPS.
Just stating what I've seen in the past. I personally never sent a warning letter for methods or failure to follow directions for performance.
Believe it or not, my drivers enjoyed working with me, and pretty much did the job. The drivers that needed a ride, received a ride by my sups, if need be I would get on the car to get the driver's input on his route and attitude.
Now I did fire a driver for not following driving methods, and it stuck. Imagine this scenario.
3rd avoidable accident within 6 months. Follow up rides done immediately after first 2 accidents. The 3rd accident, he was near a major league baseball stadium on game day. Attempted to squeeze in an alley, rather than drive around the block, hooked a dumpster into the side of the package car. Dumpster finally broke loose and slammed into a fan's car.
He called and advised of the accident, but said it was minor scratch on the package car. I waited for him to come in and was able to run my hand inside the scratch from behind the passenger door all the way to the rear of the car.
At the union hall, I had all documentaion for previous rides and union told him ADIOS.
Oh, after I fired him and before his hearing, he called to let me know he had a cocaine problem and went into rehab. He didn't even spend the night, only a few hours in rehab. He admitted he didn't have a cocaine problem, but got ripped off trying to buy some coke.
He lost it all, after 17 years at UPS.
First of all it's not 1.9 seconds to get the pkg and out the car. If in doubt ask the time standards of the center all good management will show the center standards. Time studies, are only as good as the person doing them. As in our center we haven't had one in 19 yrs. and yes the gremlins are playing with time standards. Have hear other centers in our district had some done last year. Because the whole center wasn't done they have to go back the year and do all the routes. Also when in doubt ask to be shown the way to do it faster and safer?????????????? I bet you won't get shown
Cole
Well-Known Member
If 2 are on the truck, and you have a seatbelt law, but 1 passenger seatbelt, you are not required to my knowledge to brake the law, and risk anothers health that has no seatbelt. You can call DOT, and see if the law applies to eveyone but UPS management. If 2 are riding it's plain harrassment. Artcle 37. Use your own discretion, but talk to your ba, and check your state laws etc...
Time studies are based on delivery and pick up methods and the area. Not the person doing the study, they are just gathering the information.
Do the job by the methods, do not take shortcuts, as the time study person will not record the true picture of your route.
Examples: Do not drive by pick up stops if the customer normally puts a sign in the window for you. Stop, walk to the pick up point, even if no packages are being shipped
If you have to deliver to individual apartments, and then leave the packages at the office, make sure you don't go directly to the office
Make sure you make indirect delivery attempts for signature required packages.
Do not drive excessively to add miles to your route, it doesn't matter. The route already has miles assigned to it based on the trace.
When I was a business manager I sat down with every driver and time study person to ensure the day would be smooth for both employees.
Time studies are long overdue at UPS!!!
Do the job by the methods, do not take shortcuts, as the time study person will not record the true picture of your route.
Examples: Do not drive by pick up stops if the customer normally puts a sign in the window for you. Stop, walk to the pick up point, even if no packages are being shipped
If you have to deliver to individual apartments, and then leave the packages at the office, make sure you don't go directly to the office
Make sure you make indirect delivery attempts for signature required packages.
Do not drive excessively to add miles to your route, it doesn't matter. The route already has miles assigned to it based on the trace.
When I was a business manager I sat down with every driver and time study person to ensure the day would be smooth for both employees.
Time studies are long overdue at UPS!!!
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omega man
Guest
Why are drivers being "written up" if they work over 8 hours? Drivers don't control their own dispatch??? Management is responsible for how late we are out there. Did you mean, less than 8 hours? Either way, make sure you file a grievance for harassment and file a rebuttal if this happens. Don't stand for this nonsense!!!
tieguy
Banned
there really is no paper that "looks good" when it comes to firing drivers. With the time it takes to train a new driver any manager would rather get the driver to do the job then fire them.
browniehound
Well-Known Member
Chan, while I agree with your above statements 100% I still believe time studies are flawed.
I'll give you a few examples. The prescribed travel route is congested with traffic 2 or 3 days a week, the driver is only allowed 55 MPH for 10 miles when he is in stop and go traffic.
Also, "stay out of residential driveways". During time studies you are given the maximum "walk" even though the driver is still walking when you count that he is done.
I can continue with the multiple 2-wheeler trips and so on, but the fact is we all know (including our valued customers who mock you in the following days) that time studies only work in a perfect world and UPS is far from perfect.
