Time Studies
- Thread starter pkg-king
- Start date
Brownnblue
Well-Known Member
Ah, the confusion. The misconceptions.
If the time studies and the paid day calculations are supposed to be this scientific bastion of accuracy, WHY CAN'T THE DRIVER SEE IT? WHY CAN'T WE SEE HOW IT IS PUT TOGETHER, AND WHAT ALLOWANCES WE GET FOR THE DIFFERENT UNITS OF WORK WE DO EACH DAY? If it is fair & accurate, management should chomping at the bit to let us know so we can make numbers.
I don't think you need a degree in statistics to know that if this calculation is this complex, then the margin of error must be astronomical. Let's see it.
My first time study in fifteen years came about three months ago. I was PROMISED that I could have a meeting explaining the new numbers. Guess what?
I'm doing about 20 more stops per day than the driver who previously did my route. If you are "measuring the route" how can this be possible? Or is is just more of the "a supervisor who does a good job gets a promotion, a driver who does a good job gets more work" philosophy?
Am I asking too much to see the quota system for my job???
If the time studies and the paid day calculations are supposed to be this scientific bastion of accuracy, WHY CAN'T THE DRIVER SEE IT? WHY CAN'T WE SEE HOW IT IS PUT TOGETHER, AND WHAT ALLOWANCES WE GET FOR THE DIFFERENT UNITS OF WORK WE DO EACH DAY? If it is fair & accurate, management should chomping at the bit to let us know so we can make numbers.
I don't think you need a degree in statistics to know that if this calculation is this complex, then the margin of error must be astronomical. Let's see it.
My first time study in fifteen years came about three months ago. I was PROMISED that I could have a meeting explaining the new numbers. Guess what?
I'm doing about 20 more stops per day than the driver who previously did my route. If you are "measuring the route" how can this be possible? Or is is just more of the "a supervisor who does a good job gets a promotion, a driver who does a good job gets more work" philosophy?
Am I asking too much to see the quota system for my job???
In my career with UPS I actually did over 50 time studies and analyzed them. In addition as the District Time Study Co-Oridnator I review hundreds of time studies with the drivers.
Here is a typical example of a driver who thinks he's following the methods;
Driver stops the car, opens bulkhead, selects a package, walks 30 feet to a retail store, goes inside, completes the delivery, walks back to car, opens bulkhead, selects another package, walks 40 feet to next store, goes inside, completes stop, walks 40 feet back to car, starts engin and drives away.
Did that driver use the proper methods and be given the planned time for the way he delivered those two stops?
The answer is....NO. He did not use the proper methods.
The driver should have selected both stops when he stoped the car, walked to the 1st stop, completed that delivery, then walked the 20 feet to the 2nd stop, completed that stop, then walked the 40 feet back to the car, started up and drove away.
He didn't carry an optimum load (one package weighed 15 lbs, the other 12 lbs., and both small boxes).
He walked a total of 140 feet when he should have walked only 90 feet (20 feet between 1st and 2nd stop. That was 50 feet more than required.
He opened and closed the bulkhead twice, when only once was required.
He should not and will not be given the planned time for walking the additional 50 feet or for open and closing the bulkhead the 2nd time.
This is but one example of why a driver is over planned, even though he feels he is working the best way.
I could give hundreds of such examples of why a driver doesn't meet expectations.
METHODS, METHODS, METHODS. Just because a driver thinks he's using the proper methods, doesn't mean he actually is using them.
Here is a typical example of a driver who thinks he's following the methods;
Driver stops the car, opens bulkhead, selects a package, walks 30 feet to a retail store, goes inside, completes the delivery, walks back to car, opens bulkhead, selects another package, walks 40 feet to next store, goes inside, completes stop, walks 40 feet back to car, starts engin and drives away.
Did that driver use the proper methods and be given the planned time for the way he delivered those two stops?
The answer is....NO. He did not use the proper methods.
The driver should have selected both stops when he stoped the car, walked to the 1st stop, completed that delivery, then walked the 20 feet to the 2nd stop, completed that stop, then walked the 40 feet back to the car, started up and drove away.
He didn't carry an optimum load (one package weighed 15 lbs, the other 12 lbs., and both small boxes).
He walked a total of 140 feet when he should have walked only 90 feet (20 feet between 1st and 2nd stop. That was 50 feet more than required.
He opened and closed the bulkhead twice, when only once was required.
He should not and will not be given the planned time for walking the additional 50 feet or for open and closing the bulkhead the 2nd time.
This is but one example of why a driver is over planned, even though he feels he is working the best way.
I could give hundreds of such examples of why a driver doesn't meet expectations.
METHODS, METHODS, METHODS. Just because a driver thinks he's using the proper methods, doesn't mean he actually is using them.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Let me ask you, did you point that out to the driver at any point during the time study? Or at any time after the ride or is that driver still doing it? I would have busted out my dolly for those 2 deliveries how much extra time would i have gotten then?
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
Was that driver shot at sunrise the next morning? If not, by God, he should have been.
browniehound
Well-Known Member
browniehound
Well-Known Member
Vette,
what bis the driver suppossed to do in a more realistic situation. Meaning both packages weigh over 50lbs each? And where were you that 2 retail stores get a delivery of 1 package each????
8up
Well-Known Member
Lottsa good pointer here.
*Let your customers know what will be happening the day you have a time study sup with you.
*They don't help you, and they don't ask why your are doing things differently.
*Use you dolly as much as possible.
*Walk, don't back up.
*If a residential customer is in the yard, get the signature. (if asked, say it had a signature required sticker on the pkg.)
*Get a sales lead.
good luck, you might need it because some of these time study sups are trying to look good for their bosses.
so the more they can cut, the better they look.
*Let your customers know what will be happening the day you have a time study sup with you.
*They don't help you, and they don't ask why your are doing things differently.
*Use you dolly as much as possible.
*Walk, don't back up.
*If a residential customer is in the yard, get the signature. (if asked, say it had a signature required sticker on the pkg.)
*Get a sales lead.
good luck, you might need it because some of these time study sups are trying to look good for their bosses.
so the more they can cut, the better they look.
brownman15
Well-Known Member
ur paid by the hour don't worry about their numbers don' even look at report in the morning just do ur job and u will be alright
V
veteran driver
Guest
Face it, its obvious they are not out to give us a fair time allowance. they are simply out to make our routes worth less so they can justify putting more work on each car in order to eliminate routes. if you can do it in under 12hrs it will stay on your car.
red....Yes..I did review that TS with the driver. I review EVERY TS with the driver. In the District I worked every TS is revied with the driver. The Observer reviews EVERY stop the driver made that day, pointing out to the driver where he used the correct method and where he didn't, The allowance developed for that area is based on a driver using the correct methods, not on incorrect methods.
If you had "busted out" your handtruck for a 12 lb and a 15lb package, not only would you NOT have recieved the allowance for the handtruck, any TS Observier would know that you are "playing games", or the laziest driver in the history of UPS. You're Center Manager would have a discussion with you and your steward about your actions during the TS.
spun...Just maybe IE is there to prevent the few drivers who take more time than their contractual allowed lunch period from stealing UPS's money. Just a thought, but I'm sure you believe that no driver would ever over extend their lunch, and if they did, it wasn't stealing, it was just taking what they deserved.
No trickpony, that driver wasn't shot at sunrise. He was re-assigned to Feeders because that's where UPS sends the package car drivers who have trouble remembering how to do their job.Was that driver shot at sunrise the next morning? If not, by God, he should have been.
browniehound
Well-Known Member
UPsvette,
Let me just say this. It is obvious if a "lazy" UPS driver will bust out his 2-wheeler just to get an allowance. In my mind this is a mistake on the driver's part. Its as plain as white paper if it looks like the driver to gain time in the time study to the IE observer.
My qualm comes when we need to walk up a driveway that is more than the "long walk". From what I understand we are only allowed a certain amount of steps no matter if it takes us 100 steps or 500 steps. Am I wrong?
Next, during my time study I was told I was losing "way too much time in your package selection even though I can see its not your fault". My response is I can't manage the preload. That's someone else's job. If I can't find the package that EDD says should be there, how long should I look?
So here is my theory on the situtation. UPS does time studies to create a number that could be achieved in a perfect environment. It was stated before that the IE rep comes up with a number that can be produced if the driver makes no mistakes and has no conversations with his customers.
UPSvette, can you please tell me how this would happen in the real world? My experience at UPS is that the drivers are the most hard working individuals I have ever observed in the workforce. Do you think Fed-ex drivers work as hard as UPS drivers?
Where exactly is your beef?
browniehound
Well-Known Member
UPSVette,
These drivers should be disiplined. There is a way to prove if a driver takes more lunch and breaks than is allowed. We have the technololgy to do so. With the DIAD IV, PAS, and GPS , its very hard for a driver to hide stealing time. My guess is, its the minority that is "taking extra time at lunch because they deserve it" and not the majority of the hard working drivers.
UPS drivers work harder than anyone in the industry, yet they are criticized and scrutinized more than their less hard-woking bretheren. What gives?
And on top of that, do you think that people that are criticizing and scrutinizing (the on-car sups)them could do a better job than them day after day. I think not!
upsdude
Well-Known Member
The time some of you lost must have been reassigned to my building. We made huge gains after time studies late last year. Every route gained time with one exception. My route gained over an hour that resulted in my losing 25 stops on my min max. The center’s last study was 15 years ago.
The IE person that rode with me did go over the study in detail a few days later.
The IE person that rode with me did go over the study in detail a few days later.
local804
Well-Known Member
Upsvette,
Can you tell us where they send the supervisors that forget how to do their job?
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