Time to go

The Milkman

Well-Known Member
:surprised:
UPS has never promised "free" (or near it) lifelong benefits to retirees. And retired UPSers will be one of the few workers to retain benefits, and perhaps at the most affordable cost. It's still a very generous, valuable perk. Nor is it not as if you weren't compensated handsomely, often with above-market wages & benefits, for the work you performed.

UPS is still a business and needs to look out for its best interests now & in the future. I also despise bloated executive pay, but until a strong movement in this country takes shape to increase general wages & benefits (real compensation for most Americans continues to decline, despite record productivity - UPS is an exception), it's not going to change and handicapping UPS will hurt - not help - our cause. Kinda like if the Chicago Cubs decided that the market for pitching had become too bloated, and thus they were only going to pay $5M/year for a #1 starter. Think it's going to work?

So I guess they lied about what we were told we would get upon retirement? And when I retired I knew that at age 65 I would no longer have them..I knew that also, never expected lifetime benefits. How would you feel if someone double crossed you? Have you ever had someone go back on their word to you? I was well paid while a driver, yes we made good money, yes I helped make this company into the Global Giant it is today, yes I endured tons of crap daily like we all did, only to have my efforts for over 25 yrs to help this company Grow..... Then to have my benefit pkg whittled Down.. Yeah....that's fair... I guess they could not wait for me to turn 65?
:surprised:
 

oldupsman

Well-Known Member
:surprised:

So I guess they lied about what we were told we would get upon retirement? And when I retired I knew that at age 65 I would no longer have them..I knew that also, never expected lifetime benefits. How would you feel if someone double crossed you? Have you ever had someone go back on their word to you? I was well paid while a driver, yes we made good money, yes I helped make this company into the Global Giant it is today, yes I endured tons of crap daily like we all did, only to have my efforts for over 25 yrs to help this company Grow..... Then to have my benefit pkg whittled Down.. Yeah....that's fair... I guess they could not wait for me to turn 65?
:surprised:
Don't worry Milkman. You're going to be able to keep these benefits for quite awhile because this thing is going to go on for years. The word is out now.
We're going to get more no votes on the supplement the second time around then we did the first. Who cares if we don't get the raise right now. That's just
money in the bank. Meanwhile we keep the same great healthcare we always had at no cost to you. Both the IBT and UPS have no idea what to do next. And I'm sure the plan was for Davis to leave once this contract was settled. Now they don't know what to do about that either. This whole thing is just plain fun to watch. For the first time the sheep didn't
fall in line. How dare they do that. It's great.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Ya, Scott Davis, an american hero. Kicking off the spouses of its NON Union workforce from company health insurance plans, while he takes HUGE compensation bonuses.

Its the american way I guess. Screw your employees, then have a guy like BAGELS praise you, then give yourself a bonus while telling everyone you cant afford them.

Genious.

Peace

TOS
 

The Milkman

Well-Known Member
Don't worry Milkman. You're going to be able to keep these benefits for quite awhile because this thing is going to go on for years. The word is out now.
We're going to get more no votes on the supplement the second time around then we did the first. Who cares if we don't get the raise right now. That's just
money in the bank. Meanwhile we keep the same great healthcare we always had at no cost to you. Both the IBT and UPS have no idea what to do next. And I'm sure the plan was for Davis to leave once this contract was settled. Now they don't know what to do about that either. This whole thing is just plain fun to watch. For the first time the sheep didn't
fall in line. How dare they do that. It's great.


From one old timer to another..........The Stooges are in action.......
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
This is what we call a completely off topic response to defer attention away from the actual point that was made. No where did I say that I was under compensated nor did I complain about my pay or benefits package. In fact if you were to do a search of my posts on this forum I think you would find that I have not complained about my income or benefit levels ever.

The statement I made was that your obviously out of touch with the day to day operations at my UPS location. We cannot get anyone to drive in our building. They post an interest sheet and 1 person will sign up. The guy that started on the preload the week prior. If they agree to start them, they all quit after 1-2 days. Seasonals come in work for 2-5 days and never answer their phone again when UPS calls. They all are well aware of the compensation package and the benefit package yet they all walk away!!

Something must be wrong!!!

I call BS.

Per upsjobs, the location in Wichita, KS is only hiring PT package handlers. The "nearby" location in Hutchinson, KS (only other center within 50 mile radius of Wichita) isn't even accepting applications for PT package handlers.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
Ya, Scott Davis, an american hero. Kicking off the spouses of its NON Union workforce from company health insurance plans, while he takes HUGE compensation bonuses.

Its the american way I guess. Screw your employees, then have a guy like BAGELS praise you, then give yourself a bonus while telling everyone you cant afford them.

Genious.

Peace

TOS

As I've written multiple times, I certainly don't agree with our society's view of continually differing corporate profits to executive management while real compensation elsewhere decreases. But the IBT just negotiated a contract in which, in less than five years, FT UPSers will be among the top 4-5% of all single-employer (in other words, wages as measured in what your job pays ... as opposed to household, which is your income, your spouse's income, interest & investment income, etc.) wage earners in the country. Additionally, UPSers will be among only 2.5% of all private employers still receiving no-cost benefits -- with actual payouts & out-of-pocket expenses ranking among the best. The annual pension, which will be hiked, will be among the top 1% of all private employers; the median is currently $7200 annually -- an amount most UPSers will bank in just over two months. UPSers are among the 15% of employees of private-employers that will receive retirement health care benefits, and they'll pay just a fraction of the median $20,000 annual premium.

It's hard to phantom how FT UPSers are getting screwed. The reality is, if you put in an inferior CEO and the company had an inferior performance, you certainly wouldn't be receiving the compensation package that you're getting.
 
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Griff

Well-Known Member
And quite honestly, all the FT drivers earning in excess of $30/hour (plus full no-cost health & welfare benefits) who believe nobody could replicate their work performance and/or nobody else would work for the wage they earn really needs to get over themselves.

While the pay and benefits has been enough to keep me around for all these years doing this job. $30/hour + benefits doesn't seem all that great, in your 20th year of driving, on the doorstep of a $750,000 home delivering six 80lbs boxes of dogfood from WAG.COM at 8:30PM on a Monday. Trust me.

There's been plenty a night where I kick myself for not taking a job offer I had on my old route for $26/hr + benefits AND i would of got to go home when the horn sounded at 3PM everyday like a normal clock-punching zombie in America.
 

BrownArmy

Well-Known Member
...But the IBT just negotiated a contract in which, in less than five years, FT UPSers will be among the top 4-5% of all single-employer (in other words, wages as measured in what your job pays ... as opposed to household, which is your income, your spouse's income, interest & investment income, etc.) wage earners in the country. Additionally, UPSers will be among only 2.5% of all private employers still receiving no-cost benefits -- with actual payouts & out-of-pocket expenses ranking among the best. The annual pension, which will be hiked, will be among the top 1% of all private employers; the median is currently $7200 annually -- an amount most UPSers will bank in just over two months. UPSers are among the 15% of employees of private-employers that will receive retirement health care benefits, and they'll pay just a fraction of the median $20,000 annual premium.

It's hard to phantom how FT UPSers are getting screwed. The reality is, if you put in an inferior CEO and the company had an inferior performance, you certainly wouldn't be receiving the compensation package that you're getting.

Sounds good to me, this is how all workers should be treated.

We have this 'package' because we are represented by a strong Union, a dying scenario in the USA.

Are there politics involved? Absolutely!

You seem to have a hang-up about the compensation package for FT drivers.

As a FT driver, I will tell you, quite frankly, that I earn every single penny that I'm paid.

UPS is certainly an anomaly in this day and age, vis-a-vis the symbiotic Union/corporate relationship, highlighted by our very generous compensation package. Yet UPS is still on top (these Fed-ex guys are a joke)...how could this be?

The current UPS/Union relationship is a holdover, or an after-image of a time (Jim Casey?) when Unions and corporations worked together.

Lately, it's just $$$$, shareholder concerns, global initiatives, NASDAQ, etc.

Now if we just had single-payer in this country...(sorry, wrong thread...).
 

The Milkman

Well-Known Member
Sounds good to me, this is how all workers should be treated.

We have this 'package' because we are represented by a strong Union, a dying scenario in the USA.

Are there politics involved? Absolutely!

You seem to have a hang-up about the compensation package for FT drivers.

As a FT driver, I will tell you, quite frankly, that I earn every single penny that I'm paid.

UPS is certainly an anomaly in this day and age, vis-a-vis the symbiotic Union/corporate relationship, highlighted by our very generous compensation package. Yet UPS is still on top (these Fed-ex guys are a joke)...how could this be?

The current UPS/Union relationship is a holdover, or an after-image of a time (Jim Casey?) when Unions and corporations worked together.

Lately, it's just $$$$, shareholder concerns, global initiatives, NASDAQ, etc.

Now if we just had single-payer in this country...(sorry, wrong thread...).

:goodpost::youreright:
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
As I've written multiple times, I certainly don't agree with our society's view of continually differing corporate profits to executive management while real compensation elsewhere decreases. But the IBT just negotiated a contract in which, in less than five years, FT UPSers will be among the top 4-5% of all single-employer (in other words, wages as measured in what your job pays ... as opposed to household, which is your income, your spouse's income, interest & investment income, etc.) wage earners in the country. Additionally, UPSers will be among only 2.5% of all private employers still receiving no-cost benefits -- with actual payouts & out-of-pocket expenses ranking among the best. The annual pension, which will be hiked, will be among the top 1% of all private employers; the median is currently $7200 annually -- an amount most UPSers will bank in just over two months. UPSers are among the 15% of employees of private-employers that will receive retirement health care benefits, and they'll pay just a fraction of the median $20,000 annual premium.

It's hard to phantom how FT UPSers are getting screwed. The reality is, if you put in an inferior CEO and the company had an inferior performance, you certainly wouldn't be receiving the compensation package that you're getting.

What does any of this have to do with the ratio of CEO vs Employee?

The CEO of ALbertsons supermarkets is making hundreds of millions of dollars anually, while cutting stores, wages and benefits for his employees, saying "they" cant afford them.

This is the strategy of wall street, screw the employees and take the profits for themselves.

At the end of the day, the american consumers buying power is reduced and the economy driven into deeper recessions.

Did you miss the GW Bush years?

Peace

TOS
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
What does any of this have to do with the ratio of CEO vs Employee?

The CEO of ALbertsons supermarkets is making hundreds of millions of dollars anually, while cutting stores, wages and benefits for his employees, saying "they" cant afford them.

This is the strategy of wall street, screw the employees and take the profits for themselves.

At the end of the day, the american consumers buying power is reduced and the economy driven into deeper recessions.

Did you miss the GW Bush years?

Peace

TOS

As I've written many times, I think the continued surge in executive compensation - at the expense of the working class - is sickening.

But let's be realistic. To those who feel FT drivers are entitled to 100% of the profit (which is mystifying, considering IBT-represented FT comprise less than 25% of the workforce): Upper management creates the blueprint that we build from. If we were to cap executive pay at UPS, the company simply would not attract strong enough talent to produce strong profits, let alone the record performances it's yielded in this economy. You know what will happen when UPS earns less? We will earn less.

I liken excessive executive pay to the excessive paydays given to athletes. If the New England Patriots decided that NFL salaries had reached the point of ridiculousness & that they would cap salaries at $50M, the team will handicap itself from ever being competitive & would eventually lose more money than had it maxed the cap. On the other hand, if people in Boston & throughtout the country stopped attending NFL games, stopped watching them on TV and found something to do besides fantasy football, salaries would go down.
 

oldupsman

Well-Known Member
As I've written many times, I think the continued surge in executive compensation - at the expense of the working class - is sickening.

But let's be realistic. To those who feel FT drivers are entitled to 100% of the profit (which is mystifying, considering IBT-represented FT comprise less than 25% of the workforce): Upper management creates the blueprint that we build from. If we were to cap executive pay at UPS, the company simply would not attract strong enough talent to produce strong profits, let alone the record performances it's yielded in this economy. You know what will happen when UPS earns less? We will earn less.

​ Yeah, that Scott Davis is a real whiz kid. If he's our top talent we're in trouble anyway.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
​ Yeah, that Scott Davis is a real whiz kid. If he's our top talent we're in trouble anyway.

And you think that because...?

UPS's reporting record profits in a poor economy in which it's facing its most meaningful competition - with significantly lower costs - in history. The old timers who still live in a world in which shippers will gladly pay a large premium to use UPS over FedEx Ground still live in an alternate reality in which UPS awards safe driving gifts, Holiday turkeys, anniversary present selection, etc.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
Davis is trying to maximize profits for the short term but destroying UPS for the long term .

How's he doing that? The productivity being squeezed from the workforce is a derivative of UPS's high labor costs compared to its competition. For all this talk on here about UPS going back to the way it was... if given a choice between doing half as much work for half as much pay (you know, the way it was) or the tentative contract, which do you think would pass? Hint: the finally tally will be a blow out.
 

oldngray

nowhere special
By making a mockery of things that made UPS a success - such as service. Spending dollars to save pennies. Uber micro management. You seem to be obsessed with the idea that UPS workers are overpaid. They are definitely not. If you took away all the mandatory OT they average wage would be much closer to average with much harder work required. And you can talk of squeezing more productivity from workers but it has reached the point of diminishing returns. UPS never had much slack in the system ( remember "The tightest ship in the shipping industry"? ) and it has reached a point where employees have no incentive to give any extra effort like they once did. When UPS crashes and burns Davis will have his golden parachute unlike everyone else.
 

The Milkman

Well-Known Member
By making a mockery of things that made UPS a success - such as service. Spending dollars to save pennies. Uber micro management. You seem to be obsessed with the idea that UPS workers are overpaid. They are definitely not. If you took away all the mandatory OT they average wage would be much closer to average with much harder work required. And you can talk of squeezing more productivity from workers but it has reached the point of diminishing returns. UPS never had much slack in the system ( remember "The tightest ship in the shipping industry"? ) and it has reached a point where employees have no incentive to give any extra effort like they once did. When UPS crashes and burns Davis will have his golden parachute unlike everyone else.

:bpotd::choir:
 

TheFigurehead

Well-Known Member
If we were to cap executive pay at UPS, the company simply would not attract strong enough talent to produce strong profits, let alone the record performances it's yielded in this economy.

I am so tired of this line of reasoning. It's patently false. If executive pay were capped, sure, maybe we'd lose the overpaid underwhelming crop of useless old men that are currently installed by their corporate corny friends for obscene salaries... but do you really think there aren't thousands of young, smart, hungry business people willing to do it for less? Who aren't stuck in 1971? Who might have fresh ideas? All paying these guys as much as we do accomplishes is to ensure that the old blood continues to stick around for decades beyond their relevancy.

Beyond that... if you believe this to be true... why doesn't the same apply to everyone else? Loaders / Unloaders here get, essentially, minimum wage to start ($8.50/hr. Minimum wage in IL is $8.25), and no benefits for a year. We then (it seems to be a running issue here, and on site) complain that people don't stick around more than a week or two... or that we only get the most useless of applicants. The McDonalds down the street hires folks on at $9.00, and having worked at McDonald's as a teenager, those people are working 1/10 as hard.

Granted, there are no benefits to be had at McDonalds, but how many new hires last a year at UPS? Not many. Many of us like to claim it's due to laziness or an aversion to hard work... but I don't buy it. I think people have an aversion to doing $15/hr worth of work for half that pay. I can't say I blame them... especially those who aren't looking for a "career" at UPS. One can make the argument that if you put in your time, there is money to be made... but for the average college student or young adult just looking for a part time job, there is little benefit. If the pay were in line with what other places pay (or more importantly in line with the amount of work), we'd have more, and better, applicants, less turnover, and better attitudes.
 

SignificantOwner

A Package Center Manager
I am so tired of this line of reasoning. It's patently false. If executive pay were capped, sure, maybe we'd lose the overpaid underwhelming crop of useless old men that are currently installed by their corporate corny friends for obscene salaries... but do you really think there aren't thousands of young, smart, hungry business people willing to do it for less?...

​I wholeheartedly agree (other than the "useless old men" part).
 
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