Tom

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
Sorry, but I'm not going to jump on the grievance band wagon just for touching a box I'm not supposed to.

<sigh> You missed the whole point. This should not even be a grievance. The company has already agreed to pay you full rate for this. It is your own management team that is withholding money you earned.
 

tieguy

Banned
sorry tie, you are wrong, you know it, but you still defend your position?

next

d

I don't think I'm wrong at all.

The intent of the language was to protect pay scales.

It was never meant to turn every union employee into a coniving litigator.

But that is what you have created with it.

Your people violate the contract every day by trying to find new ways to apply the same language. Many approachs go outside the original intent.

you guys get tired of contract violations while I get tired of fishing expeditions.
 

tieguy

Banned
How is it stealing! How is it not money earned. Now when I grieve as well and get paid at time and a half as well for those hours, that will be something for nothing. That's when this house of cards comes tumbling down for the company and the practice ceases. I've seen it first hand.

some people would think that getting money that was not earned is stealing.

How about this for the future bubbles. If you file a legitimate grievance you get paid. If you file a BS grievance you get fired. That would kill a lot of fishing expeditions where people try to come up with creative interpretations of contract language.
 

tieguy

Banned
No you choose to let management not work by the contract. Since you currently like the situation your in you don't care what managment does but when you finally figure out that management in screwing you, you might have a different opinion like dannyboy has said.

more mind games.
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
some people would think that getting money that was not earned is stealing.

How about this for the future bubbles. If you file a legitimate grievance you get paid. If you file a BS grievance you get fired. That would kill a lot of fishing expeditions where people try to come up with creative interpretations of contract language.

Does that mean that any supervisor doing hourly work gets fired too? I'll back that.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
I like fruit punch kool aid please. But that is the thing, I have a decent rapport and keep professional with all supervisors whether it's in the hub or air driving. And like I said before, once I feel that is violated, then I will leave UPS.

Sorry, but I'm not going to jump on the grievance band wagon just for touching a box I'm not supposed to. Please give my regards to the full time driver and his kids that I took money from. Funny and ludacris all at the same time.

Dear Brown_Eyed_Girl,
Every UPS employee is obligated by current UPS Policy to cooperate in fulfilling the terms of the Labor agreements. It is not a matter of convenience or opinion, it is by policy your job. Every UPS employee will, in the long run, best service the customers by fulfilling our obligations in this area. You can review this on page 24. Every employee should always seek to get paid exactly what is bargained for, nothing more, nothing less. Each management person should always seek to pay exactlly what is bargained for, nothing more, nothing less.
Sincerely,
I
 

UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
I don't think I'm wrong at all.

Your are

The intent of the language was to protect pay scales.

Well you got part of it

It was never meant to turn every union employee into a coniving litigator.

If management did break the rules us union guys wouldn't have to file.

But that is what you have created with it.

management created it buy breaking rules

Your people violate the contract every day by trying to find new ways to apply the same language. Many approachs go outside the original intent.

you guys get tired of contract violations while I get tired of fishing expeditions.

If we break the rules write us up, becasue management breaks to rules we are going file. Get use to it it's called the union. If you don't like it go work for a non union company.

 

tieguy

Banned
Does that mean that any supervisor doing hourly work gets fired too? I'll back that.

You want two consequences for my side as opposed to one for yours?

Over its a legitimate point I'm making here and not an effort to try to one up your side of this discussion. There really is some original intent behind contract language. Filing and litigating over one package goes outside the original intent. Beating up brown eyed girl because she is not filing a grievance everytime some customer hands her a ground package was not part of the original intent. No one gains nor loses a job dependent on what brown eyed girl does here.
 

tieguy

Banned
Dear Brown_Eyed_Girl,
Every UPS employee is obligated by current UPS Policy to cooperate in fulfilling the terms of the Labor agreements. It is not a matter of convenience or opinion, it is by policy your job. Every UPS employee will, in the long run, best service the customers by fulfilling our obligations in this area. You can review this on page 24. Every employee should always seek to get paid exactly what is bargained for, nothing more, nothing less. Each management person should always seek to pay exactlly what is bargained for, nothing more, nothing less.
Sincerely,
I

LOL just what we need a speech from the integrity nazi when real people are having a discussion.

Integrity insetad of speech why don't you tell brown eyed girl exactly what she should do when that customer hands her that pacakge?
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
I like fruit punch kool aid please. But that is the thing, I have a decent rapport and keep professional with all supervisors whether it's in the hub or air driving. And like I said before, once I feel that is violated, then I will leave UPS.

thats kinda like taking advantage of a young lady. you just finished having dinner and sex. the agreement was that after sex, you would pay her $100. but because she now has some misguided belief (planted by you btw) that if you paid her, she would be nothing more than a hooker, she has some religious epiphany that what she did is great, without being wrong, as long as you dont pay her for the act.

oh sweet beg, your a classic victim, and you even refuse to face that fact. but that is alright, your excused, because you feel like you have not been abused. and we for sure would trust your feelings over harsh reality.

Sorry, but I'm not going to jump on the grievance band wagon just for touching a box I'm not supposed to.

we are not talking a box. we are talking making a pickup of many boxes. see, you are already trying to justify your behavior by down playing what you did, the eve defense. it was only a small bite..........

so now by that post, at least in your sub concience, you are admitting you knew you did something wrong. baby steps to getting you to face facts. keep working on that.

Please give my regards to the full time driver and his kids that I took money from. Funny and ludacris all at the same time.

now this is very interesting. as a former navy vet, i am sure you had great glee when the dead from overseas were laid to rest, and the misguided paster and his ilk were holding signs and crashing the services to protest the war on a personal level.

see, your post shows the same distain for the people that have come before you, people that have worked hard, people that have negotiated contracts so a person like you with a part time job can make what you do, along with the benifits.

and this is the attitude you take? shame on you.
beg, we have a contract. when you took your job at ups, you agreed to abide by that contract. you have shown by your actions and postings that you are less than honorable. shame on you. ups cant take your integrity and ethics away, you have to give them away personally. i hope what you got/get in return is worth it to you
some people would think that getting money that was not earned is stealing.

How about this for the future bubbles. If you file a legitimate grievance you get paid. If you file a BS grievance you get fired. That would kill a lot of fishing expeditions (what about all those fishing expeditions management goes on, you really wanna go there?) where people try to come up with creative interpretations of contract language.

hello, the lights are on, but no one with a brain is home?????? she earned the money. its that instead of you paying the money, your playing stupid. you are the ones that have stolen

i suggest this, how about everytime you violate your written word, we fire you? that fair? see, that would take care of a lot of the creative licence you folks seem to think is your god given right.

problem is that after the first week, we would never have to worry about who to lay off, and the oppertunity for advancement from within would be like never before. all the way to the top.

tie, i suspect you yet to bring your a game to the conversation. but if this is the best you have to offer, quit while you still have some dignity.

it is black and white. you violated the contract per pay scale. were it not for the union, there would be more serious legal issues than what you seem to not understand. its called breech of contract.

i also find it interesting that when sups change time cards, they get fired if they get caught, but yet it happens all the time. why? is it that the gamble of the reward is so great? is it that the culture of cheating at all costs to make the numbers is so great, most dont even consider the down side? or is it a game to you?

so pack your red herrings away, focus on what you did wrong, quit changing the subjects.

one last thing that seems to be overlooked when stealing(you seem fixated by this term, and yes, ups did steal) is an issue.

when someone steals, the offended person (victim) usually presses charges. but in this case, beg exhibits a lack of true understanding of the issue, offence, law, so since that is the case, the state would normally step in to press charges. in this case, the part of the state is played by the union. a "crime" has still been committed, and at the very least, a reimbursement of what was stolen is sought. now, if the victim does not want the reimbursement, that is a further indication she is clueless. so give what was stolen to whom ever wants it. because the real justice is that the person that stole it, now has to give it away. and it is not up to the theif who that person is that gets the goods.

d
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
Re: Tom

Originally Posted by over9five
Does that mean that any supervisor doing hourly work gets fired too? I'll back that.



You want two consequences for my side as opposed to one for yours?

Over its a legitimate point I'm making here and not an effort to try to one up your side of this discussion. There really is some original intent behind contract language. Filing and litigating over one package goes outside the original intent. Beating up brown eyed girl because she is not filing a grievance everytime some customer hands her a ground package was not part of the original intent. No one gains nor loses a job dependent on what brown eyed girl does here.​

no tie, what we are suggesting is that a person be confronted about dishonesty, and punished accordingly. in the majority of the cases of dishonesty against hourly, they are fired. in te majority of the cases involving management, there is reward, unless you bring outside attention to falsifying time cards.

the problem lies in that a person with real integrity and ethics would never allow this to happen. they would pay her what she earned, and not hide behind what she feels.

d
 

tieguy

Banned
If we break the rules write us up, becasue management breaks to rules we are going file. Get use to it it's called the union. If you don't like it go work for a non union company.


Thank you for sharing that opinion. Now please go back and revisit the number of union trucking companies before and after deregulation and see if you really want this to be your last and final answer.
 

tieguy

Banned
no tie, what we are suggesting is that a person be confronted about dishonesty, and punished accordingly. in the majority of the cases of dishonesty against hourly, they are fired. in te majority of the cases involving management, there is reward, unless you bring outside attention to falsifying time cards.

the problem lies in that a person with real integrity and ethics would never allow this to happen. they would pay her what she earned, and not hide behind what she feels.

d

No buddy I strongly disagree. I think anyone who tries to take advantage of a customer handing her a package to file on a higher scale is in fact misssing any integrity.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
I like fruit punch kool aid please. But that is the thing, I have a decent rapport and keep professional with all supervisors whether it's in the hub or air driving. And like I said before, once I feel that is violated, then I will leave UPS.

Sorry, but I'm not going to jump on the grievance band wagon just for touching a box I'm not supposed to. Please give my regards to the full time driver and his kids that I took money from. Funny and ludacris all at the same time.
20 years in the navy and that's what you learned about "honor, courage, and commitment"? What a joke you are. I was giving you too much credit, I bet the whole time you were in you were a kiss-ass who tried to get out of work by screwing the people next to you. Keep kissing that ass at big brown and see where it gets you. Pathetic. You might as well put your letter in now, you've got the mindset for it.
 

tieguy

Banned
20 years in the navy and that's what you learned about "honor, courage, and commitment"? What a joke you are. I was giving you too much credit, I bet the whole time you were in you were a kiss-ass who tried to get out of work by screwing the people next to you. Keep kissing that ass at big brown and see where it gets you. Pathetic.

mind games and intimidation the union way.....:)
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
On occasion, when the regular driver couldn't make a pick-up for some reason, have picked up over 70 pieces of ground because no one else was available.[ /QUOTE]

this was her first accounting of the situation. happens on occasion, and over 70 packages, not a package like tie likes to repeat

then we get the revised standard version which is different

To the other gentlemen posting about the pick up, please allow me to give details. I ran a route in Mequon which is far from the center. Received a call that the regular driver did not pick up at Factory A. They asked me if I would do this and I said yes. While this is going to upset some people, it saved the company from sending another driver at $28 per hour or whatever and they paid me $13.50 which is my rate, I was already there. A box is still a box and the customer needed it picked up.
they asked her to, remember?

now as to her belief system, i call it extortion, because she posted
The only reason I mentioned blackballed was because of the fact that they know that on occasion, they can count on me. If I pop up out of the blue and start fussing about picking ground up, then yes I would be labeled
that is the reason ups will never be without a union, because of management tactics like this.

also, dont give us the bs about deregulation, ups was behind it 100%. you wanted it, you got it. it drove a lot of good companies out, but we survived, in large part because of our workforce, not because we were non union.

so please, stop with the sea full of red herrings, stick to the issues.

you were wrong

she at the very least is confused as to what and when, and is not a reliable witness. as to your respecting her belief's, god bless you. but you designed the belief system, as she posted.

still waiting for the a game, unless this has been it.....

d
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
No buddy I strongly disagree. I think anyone who tries to take advantage of a customer handing her a package to file on a higher scale is in fact misssing any integrity.
focus tie, focus

not a package. the customer did not hand her a package. stick with the program and story line.

for what ever reason, she ended up picking up over 70 packages. managment told her to do work outside of her classification. therefor she deserves to get the pay, whether she wants it or not. hell, she can give it back to ups if she wants, we dont care.

and the reports will show that she worked as a driver, and the manager that authorized it will get their asses chewed.

but at the end of the day, minus some chunks of ass, everyone still has their integrity and ethics are in place.

d
 
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UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
Thank you for sharing that opinion. Now please go back and revisit the number of union trucking companies before and after deregulation and see if you really want this to be your last and final answer.

I don't care about the other companies. I work for UPS and the union has a contract with UPS. If management just followed the contract instead of doing what ever it takes to make their NUMBERS we wouldn't have to file some many greivances .
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
pst 72. there have been instances were the union people brought ice picks.....just so's you know.

but the gunfight is not where we beat them. we beat them in the arena of integrity and honesty, values and honor. i dont want paid more than i earn, but i do want paid what i earn.

where as ups management, and it seems at all levels, like to play games with time cards and work codes.

d
 
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