MechanicForBrown
Prblm found,part on order
man, thank god i'm in automotive.
old brown shoe
30 year driver
This is done so they can cut routes and put more work on the others. They will tell you that you only have a nine hour day and can't help it if it takes you ten and a half. Look at it this way you just got a big raise. I just tell them it pays by the hour and I will be back when I get done. I don't like to work the long hours any more than most of the drivers but have been doing it for so many years it just seems like a average day.
tieguy
Banned
If you were smart you would pick a walk path free of hazards and obstructions. everyone did it back then and I rarely heard of anyone having any issues.
tieguy
Banned
Dont confuse this issue with the normal IE inflated performance measurement arguement. You cant realistically argue against the point that the diad is so much quicker and easier then paper.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Have you ever actually used a DIAD yourself, to deliver an entire route with?
I've used every version iof the DIAD since its inception,and before that I was recording on paper. I have used both and can say with 100& certainty that the DAD is not really quicker than paper
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Sober, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. I considered myself to be very efficient when we were on paper but I am much faster on the DIAD than I ever was on paper (at bulk stops). I continue to sheet while walking at residential stops, I have the next 5 stops mentally lined up, and I use Find BC quite a bit. You are right in that there is little difference at a residential stop, and not much at a business stop with fewer than 10 pkgs but the real difference for me is at my larger bulk stops (WalMart, Sams and the college) where I am much faster than I ever was on paper.
Just Numbers
Retired
Station?
cachsux
Wah
But are you comparing todays Diad versus paper? If you remember Diad 1 was heavy,unreliable and prone to vapor locking in the middle of the day causing you to go back to paper. Also few packages had barcodes so the numbers had to be entered manually so I would say it was a draw between someone fast on paper and Diad 1. We noticed the younger drivers who were more into video games were faster than the older more experienced paper drivers on Diad but the expertise was reversed when on paper. Now as more and more barcode pkgs came along the Diads speed came up except when the pkg wouldn`t scan and then you were back to typing them in. I stopped handling packages in anything less than 28' bundles in 95 so my knowledge on the new versions of the Diad are nill but I would still think that scanning a package would make a Diad the winner but if it came to trying to type all the info for each pkg versus writing it by hand it would be much closer a battle.
Ex DHL driver?
DIAD and EDD DO save time. Just not as much as IE claims. DIAD makes tracking possible and tracing a whole different animal from the paper days, though. I personally think that DIAD and EDD were oversold and after the money was spent there was no choice but to try to drive up productivity by changing the allowances by whatever amount was necessary to justify the costs.
JustTired
free at last.......
How does changing the allowances drive up productivity? It might take some of the money away from bonus drivers, but it doesn't drive up their productivity. If it does...then they were dogging it before. Oh, sure, the diad and EDD might make make a dent in the production allowances. But nowhere near the numbers that were over-optimistically calculated by those that do those things.
Those numbers don't fool any driver. They only fool those that are foolish. They knock their heads against the wall while we just laugh all the way to the bank (whether we want to or not)!!
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
The allowance is like an electric treadmill that the driver is required to run on.
Almost any driver can be made to run "faster" for a little while if IE cranks up the RPM's. The problem starts when the pace becomes unsustainable and the driver cant keep up and gets thrown off of the back.
IE has basically rigged the meter downward to show fewer RPM's than are actually taking place. The driver is running just as fast if not faster than before, yet he is being lied to and told otherwise and the dispatch is cranked up higher and higher based upon those intentionally false readings.
In this analogy, the on-road supervisor is standing directly behind the driver and beating him with the whip of the daily report and screaming at him to keep the RPM's up to where they were before. He does this because if the driver cant keep up and gets tossed off the back, he will be thrown right on top of the sup and they both wind up in a mess on the floor.
Meanwhile, the IE guy is sitting in an office someplace watching the whole thing and laughing his sick ass off while he keeps turning those RPM's up higher and higher and higher. He isnt the one on the treadmill and he isnt the one that gets squashed by the driver when he gets thrown off the back. All he cares about is keeping those RPM's going as fast as possible.
If that IE guy ever had to leave his office to go out in the real world and stand behind the driver, I suspect that he would make sure that the "RPM meter" on that treadmill was accurate...since it would wind up being his problem if it weren't.
Being a successful driver means being willing to maintain the same pace no matter how fast they try to turn that treadmill up. It means being willing to get thrown off the back every single day. And it means remembering that your supervisor is the one who is going to take the brunt of the impact and not you. You just have to be willing to ignore IE's "RPM meter" and keep getting back on that treadmill every morning.
tieguy
Banned
A wonderful analogy that makes everyone sound really sinister but does nothing to address the point that the diad is much faster then writing on paper.
W
want to retire
Guest
First of all tieguy, gutsy to be on here. But you didn't really address anything he said. Sinister. Not everyone. The problem here is that you HAVE to accept the "system" or you don't get to keep your job. The "system" is a house of cards. Yes, DIAD is a wonderful technology. ED is another matter. When ED was announced, I had a few questions. The big one was: what about irregs, bulk, exceptions, break times, exceptions, Mr. Smith needs his at 11:45 and so on. Silence. The sinister part comes from above. Upper management needs more "productivity", lower cost per piece etc. It is your job to make this happen. IE creates a number, you make the employee perform. You know how it works. From altering records on down to some "sinister" things. A successful driver stays out of the spotlight and picks his battles with great care.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I'm sorry but you are just plain wrong here.
The DIAD is at best marginally faster than paper was, and then only at bulk stops with large numbers of pieces.
If we are talking DR's, apartment complexes, or signature stops of less than 10 or 15 pieces...there is no real difference. The time that it takes to select the package, carry it to the delivery point and get it signed for is no different. You scan...or write the shipper #....as you are walking per the 340 methods. The total elapsed amount of time per stop, from securing the vehicle to getting back to the handrail, is not affected by DIAD vs. 50-liner unless it is a huge bulk stop. It is dictated by the physical characteristics of the stop, length of walk, stairs, elevators etc.
A guy who loads 20 pieces onto a carry aid and runs them up to the 5th floor on an elevator to deliver them got screwed because whether he was on DIAD or on paper, he would be sheeting all of the packages up during the elevator ride. The time taken to record each package is irrelevant to the overall time taken to complete the stop.
A guy who did a lot of DR's with long walks also got screwed, because the time it took him to walk to the delivery point and back never changed, and whether he was on paper or DIAD he recorded the package during the walk.
What IE did...was a blanket, across-the-board reduction in the time allowance for each piece, without any regard for the physical circumstances under which that piece was being delivered.
Count N Erdown
Member
Ah yes, the old diad is faster routine. This same scenario happened in our center about 4 or 5 years ago. Same demonstration but with a letter. The driver asked to sheet the packages on paper was of course slower. The driver then slid an 80 lb. box onto the rollers, handed the diad to the center manager and said " you sheet the box with the diad and I'll write the letter on paper and the delivery is 2 flights up and in the back building". First one back wins! Since this demonstration we have gone through 4 good supervisors because they became so frustrated with the numbers and couldn't take the abuse from above or they were fired for some petty infraction.
Since they made the time adjustments all drivers started running significantly over allowed. 9.5 hours of work to get a planned 8. As some one else posted this reduced the number of drivers dispatched.
When I began working for UPS many years ago (29), management has always preached the the optimum work day should be 9.5 hrs. In the past few years drivers have become fed up with working all this overtime and are now able to file over 9.5 grievances. Guess what? " you should not be over 9.5, you only had an 8 hour dispatch".
We are being paid our grievances (slowly) but it definitely is a big hammer to beat the new kids on the block with. It also seems to screw up my summer evenings with family and friends pretty well but I'll take their money for a few more years.
I really feel sorry for the people coming into the company now. They have received such big promises that will never be delivered until the union or someone in the upper echelons of this once great company recognize the injustices that have been perpatrated.
Since they made the time adjustments all drivers started running significantly over allowed. 9.5 hours of work to get a planned 8. As some one else posted this reduced the number of drivers dispatched.
When I began working for UPS many years ago (29), management has always preached the the optimum work day should be 9.5 hrs. In the past few years drivers have become fed up with working all this overtime and are now able to file over 9.5 grievances. Guess what? " you should not be over 9.5, you only had an 8 hour dispatch".
We are being paid our grievances (slowly) but it definitely is a big hammer to beat the new kids on the block with. It also seems to screw up my summer evenings with family and friends pretty well but I'll take their money for a few more years.
I really feel sorry for the people coming into the company now. They have received such big promises that will never be delivered until the union or someone in the upper echelons of this once great company recognize the injustices that have been perpatrated.
trplnkl
555
Or when, whichever comes first, I'm bettin' on the winged porkers.
They did that demonstration with us years ago. Then, they did it again after the next contract and showed us why they have to take some time away from us again. It's like the government taxing you on one thing and then years later telling you that they need a tax on that thing. They bank on you forgetting the first time.
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
I really don't want to get into a "religious" war about I.E. or Work Measurement, but I have to weigh in with some other information.
While I agree that this was handled poorly, the change WAS based on facts and was NOT a blanket reduction without regard to circumstances. The problem however really dates back to the early 1990's. I know this because I was part of the discussions back then. Oz Nelson was CEO, and Mike Eskew was not yet head of Corporate I.E.
The corporate work measurement group recommended changing the time allowances. The work measurement systems and WOR was giving credit for writing all of the tracking information down for each package that had a tracking number on it. Remember that previously, there were few packages with tracking numbers.
That recommendation was turned down by the head of Corporate I.E. I was in a meeting with him when he explained why he chose to not make that change. I understand that the recommendation to make that change came up regularly year after year.
It was finally implemented when EDD came in. EDD had nothing to do with it, it was just a "convenient" time to make a change that was identified over 10 years earlier.
Sober, maybe you can sheet the old way just as quick as keying in a DIAD. Most drivers would rather use the DIAD.... The real issue is that the WOR system was giving you credit for writing down the full 1Z for every package with a tracking number. This is why the change was made.
I assume that even you would agree that scanning is quicker than writing down all that tracking info?
P-Man
