Unionization from the inside out

[quadro]

I do realize that quadro but that dosen't change that fact that old Fred snuck the language in to make it impossible for you guys to unionize. For many topped out couriers they have a alright deal however you have to ask yourself, how do the midrange guys feel having to wait 20 years to top out.

When the language was inserted into the 1996 FAA Reform Act it really didn't change anything as all it did was revert Express to coverage under the RLA which is where they had been since the beginning except for a very short period of time leading up to the 1996 Act.

You and I both know more than half of the Express unit would be union by now.

You have no idea what I know and don't know. It's your opinion that Express would be union and I'm not here to tell you your opinion is right or wrong. I will ask you, however, to think about it this way. A union would absolutely love to get Express on board. The boost in their income would make it a good business decision for them. I have no doubt that there are employees at Express who would absolutely welcome the union and that's their choice. Given the recent change in the RLA in regards to the majority vote, you have to ask yourself why no union is making a push for this. Look at it from the union's point of view. They are a business and like any business they determine where and when to invest their money. Apparently, they don't see the ROI right now. Meaning that they presumably are not confident that even with the change in the RLA, they can get enough votes to win and offset their expenses in mounting a campaign.

So it doesn't matter whether I think Express employees are happy, sad, want a union, don't want a union, etc, etc. It's pretty clear that the unions don't think that anywhere near enough Express employees want a union, especially as they don't even have to get 50% + 1 of the entire class.

 

[MrFedEx]

When the language was inserted into the 1996 FAA Reform Act it really didn't change anything as all it did was revert Express to coverage under the RLA which is where they had been since the beginning except for a very short period of time leading up to the 1996 Act.

You have no idea what I know and don't know. It's your opinion that Express would be union and I'm not here to tell you your opinion is right or wrong. I will ask you, however, to think about it this way. A union would absolutely love to get Express on board. The boost in their income would make it a good business decision for them. I have no doubt that there are employees at Express who would absolutely welcome the union and that's their choice. Given the recent change in the RLA in regards to the majority vote, you have to ask yourself why no union is making a push for this. Look at it from the union's point of view. They are a business and like any business they determine where and when to invest their money. Apparently, they don't see the ROI right now. Meaning that they presumably are not confident that even with the change in the RLA, they can get enough votes to win and offset their expenses in mounting a campaign.

So it doesn't matter whether I think Express employees are happy, sad, want a union, don't want a union, etc, etc. It's pretty clear that the unions don't think that anywhere near enough Express employees want a union, especially as they don't even have to get 50% + 1 of the entire class.

As usual, you're wrong.

 

[LTFedExer]

As usual, you're wrong.

Let's take a vote and find out who is wrong......

 

[MrFedEx]

Let's take a vote and find out who is wrong......

Hey, great idea!! Uh oh, Fred isn't going to allow that to happen. A vote today would open some eyes in MEM...wide open.

 

[quadro]

As usual, you're wrong.

Really? Care to prove that? Let me know how that works out for you.

 

[MrFedEx]

Really? Care to prove that? Let me know how that works out for you.

Tell Maury and Fred that we want to vote on it, OK? Think that's going to happen? No, it isn't, because it would reflect badly on the lie machine. When you get a clue, come back and give me an answer that makes sense.

 

[FedExer267]

When the language was inserted into the 1996 FAA Reform Act it really didn't change anything as all it did was revert Express to coverage under the RLA which is where they had been since the beginning except for a very short period of time leading up to the 1996 Act.

You have no idea what I know and don't know. It's your opinion that Express would be union and I'm not here to tell you your opinion is right or wrong. I will ask you, however, to think about it this way. A union would absolutely love to get Express on board. The boost in their income would make it a good business decision for them. I have no doubt that there are employees at Express who would absolutely welcome the union and that's their choice. Given the recent change in the RLA in regards to the majority vote, you have to ask yourself why no union is making a push for this. Look at it from the union's point of view. They are a business and like any business they determine where and when to invest their money. Apparently, they don't see the ROI right now. Meaning that they presumably are not confident that even with the change in the RLA, they can get enough votes to win and offset their expenses in mounting a campaign.

So it doesn't matter whether I think Express employees are happy, sad, want a union, don't want a union, etc, etc. It's pretty clear that the unions don't think that anywhere near enough Express employees want a union, especially as they don't even have to get 50% + 1 of the entire class.

I see where your coming from quadro and your right its a opinion. However think about it this way top range employees are retiring every year, with that happening you will have a company made up of midrange employees who don't see a future with it taking 20 years to top out. They will be the majority of Express before long and it would be intresting to see what happens then.

However that being said this post was meant to point out the obvious while Express and Ground have reasons that make it hard to go union, the union could throw a monkey wrench in the plan by unionizing the inside. Once this happens the others at FedEx Corp would see how fairly they are treated and want a change. It would be nice to see Fred sweat a little.

 

[quadro]

I see where your coming from quadro and your right its a opinion. However think about it this way top range employees are retiring every year, with that happening you will have a company made up of midrange employees who don't see a future with it taking 20 years to top out. They will be the majority of Express before long and it would be intresting to see what happens then.

Agreed.

 

[quadro]

Tell Maury and Fred that we want to vote on it, OK? Think that's going to happen? No, it isn't, because it would reflect badly on the lie machine. When you get a clue, come back and give me an answer that makes sense.

Are you deflecting yet again? My, my. You said I was wrong about the reclassification and the 1996 FAA Act. I asked you to prove it. Instead of doing so, you answer by going off in a different direction. Tell me again whose answers don't make sense.

 

[MrFedEx]

Are you deflecting yet again? My, my. You said I was wrong about the reclassification and the 1996 FAA Act. I asked you to prove it. Instead of doing so, you answer by going off in a different direction. Tell me again whose answers don't make sense.

The reclassification is wrong because FedEx isn't an airline. Both FedEx and UPS are systems integrators, and have been such since far before 1996. Oh, and please tell everyone how Fred had his Republicans on-a-string sneak the language into the FAA Bill at literally the last moment. This is a special deal for Fred S..plain and simple. Even you should be able to figure it out, but you can't. Fred has gotten his ROI and then some off of the politicians he owns.

If you need an education, head to the main page for the Forums and click on the UPS explanation of Fred's special treatment. They "get it".

 

[LTFedExer]

The reclassification is wrong because FedEx isn't an airline. Both FedEx and UPS are systems integrators, and have been such since far before 1996. Oh, and please tell everyone how Fred had his Republicans on-a-string sneak the language into the FAA Bill at literally the last moment. This is a special deal for Fred S..plain and simple. Even you should be able to figure it out, but you can't. Fred has gotten his ROI and then some off of the politicians he owns.

If you need an education, head to the main page for the Forums and click on the UPS explanation of Fred's special treatment. They "get it".

FedEx and UPS do not operate the same.

 

[MrFedEx]

FedEx and UPS do not operate the same.

FedEx and UPS run their air operations in a very similar fashion. Please inform me how they operate differently. Same type of hub and spoke line haul air system, Feeders/CTV's that bring the pkgs to centers/stations, and package cars/drivers or trucks/couriers that deliver said packages. Other than the terminology, what is different? I await your brilliance.

It's rather amazing that politicians and regulators think the same way you do. However, Fred is paying them huge money to pretend to be "stupid". As far as I know, he isn't paying you, so what is there to misunderstand about the way these two basically identical systems integrators conduct business?

 

[LTFedExer]

FedEx and UPS run their air operations in a very similar fashion. Please inform me how they operate differently. Same type of hub and spoke line haul air system, Feeders/CTV's that bring the pkgs to centers/stations, and package cars/driver or trucks/couriers that deliver said packages. Other than the terminology, what is different? I await your brilliance.

I don't need to be smart to explain. I also do not make innuendos, assumptions and accusations without offering proof.
That said. In 11 years with the company, I have never delivered a Ground package and I'll wager neither have you. I have also never SEEN a Ground driver deliver an Express package. If they did, I would love to see the tracking info on that one. I don't even think a Ground driver can scan an Express package.

FedEx has done it's best to keep Express and Ground as 2 separate entities, unlike UPS. Look on any UPS truck at any time and you will see a combination of both.

 

[quadro]

The reclassification is wrong because FedEx isn't an airline. Both FedEx and UPS are systems integrators, and have been such since far before 1996. Oh, and please tell everyone how Fred had his Republicans on-a-string sneak the language into the FAA Bill at literally the last moment. This is a special deal for Fred S..plain and simple. Even you should be able to figure it out, but you can't. Fred has gotten his ROI and then some off of the politicians he owns.

If you need an education, head to the main page for the Forums and click on the UPS explanation of Fred's special treatment. They "get it".

Ok, now I get it. You didn't even read what I wrote in an attempt to just point out that I'm wrong.

My post that you said was wrong had nothing to do with whether or not RLA classification was correct. I was responding to Fedexer267 who seemed to think that Express was under the NLRA from 1971 to 1996. I was simply pointing out that Express was under the RLA during that time.

And to save time, I accept your apology.

 

[MrFedEx]

Ok, now I get it. You didn't even read what I wrote in an attempt to just point out that I'm wrong.

My post that you said was wrong had nothing to do with whether or not RLA classification was correct. I was responding to Fedexer267 who seemed to think that Express was under the NLRA from 1971 to 1996. I was simply pointing out that Express was under the RLA during that time.

And to save time, I accept your apology.

No apology offered. As far as I know, FedEx has always been (incorrectly) classified under the RLA.

 

[MrFedEx]

I don't need to be smart to explain. I also do not make innuendos, assumptions and accusations without offering proof.
That said. In 11 years with the company, I have never delivered a Ground package and I'll wager neither have you. I have also never SEEN a Ground driver deliver an Express package. If they did, I would love to see the tracking info on that one. I don't even think a Ground driver can scan an Express package.

FedEx has done it's best to keep Express and Ground as 2 separate entities, unlike UPS. Look on any UPS truck at any time and you will see a combination of both.

OK, so please tell me how mixing freight makes any difference at all in regards to classification. UPS also has dedicated air drivers, or did you know that? We mix packages every day... on line haul aircraft, line haul trucks, and at stations, where Express employees process both Express and Ground packages at the counter. Since Ground moves all over the place on Express aircraft, and Express freight moves on Ground trucks, what is the basis for your earlier argument? It appears as though you have none.

Did you know that FedEx is working on systems that allow Ground drivers to deliver Express packages? It may already be a done deal.

 

[LTFedExer]

OK, so please tell me how mixing freight makes any difference at all in regards to classification. UPS also has dedicated air drivers, or did you know that? We mix packages every day... on line haul aircraft, line haul trucks, and at stations, where Express employees process both Express and Ground packages at the counter. Since Ground moves all over the place on Express aircraft, and Express freight moves on Ground trucks, what is the basis for your earlier argument? It appears as though you have none.

Did you know that FedEx is working on systems that allow Ground drivers to deliver Express packages? It may already be a done deal.

I never said it made a difference in classification, nor did I EVER say we should be classified as NLRA or RLA. I merely mentioned they do not operate the same, which you still haven't proven they do. Yes, I did know UPS has dedicated air drivers. Also, you still haven't shown where Ground packages move on Express. You've said it over and over, but have yet to show proof.

You can be as condescending and insulting as you want. Bottom line is financially, delivery and the way packages are moved about, Ground and Express are 2 totally separate and independent companies. As for Ground delivering Express.......I highly doubt it. Imagine a customer paying for Express to deliver a package and it gets delivered by Ground or Home Delivery?

As far as I'm concerned, this argument is over unless you can offer proof that the 2 are integrated the same way UPS is.

 

[MrFedEx]

I never said it made a difference in classification, nor did I EVER say we should be classified as NLRA or RLA. I merely mentioned they do not operate the same, which you still haven't proven they do. Yes, I did know UPS has dedicated air drivers. Also, you still haven't shown where Ground packages move on Express. You've said it over and over, but have yet to show proof.

You can be as condescending and insulting as you want. Bottom line is financially, delivery and the way packages are moved about, Ground and Express are 2 totally separate and independent companies. As for Ground delivering Express.......I highly doubt it. Imagine a customer paying for Express to deliver a package and it gets delivered by Ground or Home Delivery?

As far as I'm concerned, this argument is over unless you can offer proof that the 2 are integrated the same way UPS is.

Ground moves on Express aircraft every single day to several remote locations, including Alaska. This might make sense logistically, but it is mixing one mode with the other (Ground via Express). I am also aware of Ground tractor-trailers delivering Express freight to an Express ramp. Again, a mixture of modes. Express CSA's handling and processing Ground freight. That's 3 times. Sounds pretty integrated to me.

The degree of integration might not be exactly the same as UPS, but Express and Ground are definitely NOT separate and independent companies. FedEx would like you to believe that. I know otherwise.

Here's your proof. Ask your manager to access the flight information for the aircraft that fly to ANC. If he/she can pull-up an FDR, you'll immediately see Ground freight moving in LD3's on the manifest. Do it, then get back to me with what you discover, OK?

My bet is that the manager will refuse to do it. If you're near a ramp, ask a ramp agent to print-out the ANC flight(s). If you have access, you might even be able to do it yourself.

Finally, ask yourself why Express would want Ground to have an Express-capable computer and tracking system. Again, I await your brilliant answer. Ask bbsam if you need some help.

 

[Cactus]

I don't need to be smart to explain. I also do not make innuendos, assumptions and accusations without offering proof.
That said. In 11 years with the company, I have never delivered a Ground package and I'll wager neither have you. I have also never SEEN a Ground driver deliver an Express package. If they did, I would love to see the tracking info on that one. I don't even think a Ground driver can scan an Express package.

FedEx has done it's best to keep Express and Ground as 2 separate entities, unlike UPS. Look on any UPS truck at any time and you will see a combination of both.

So?

People throw Ground packages into Express dropboxes all the time even though there's a disclaimer on the dropbox saying they won't be accepted. Well guess what the Express drivers really have no choice but to pick them up anyway and bring them back to the station. Happens everyday.

 

[vantexan]

I think we can all agree that FedEx spends considerable money lobbying Congress to get legislation passed that enables them to insure profits. It's a safe bet that will continue, and that FedEx will continue to seek ways to streamline it's operations to maximize profit. How that will affect us remains to be seen but based on past history it will affect us and usually not for the better. My prescriptions after my medical procedure are going to cost me $135 a month for a year, and one of them I'll have to take for life. Pretty certain it would've been less under Cigna and used to be company paid. We can't even be certain there will be an Express down the road if FedEx can convince Congress and the courts to allow an ISP model to preserve the company's ability to stay in business, especially as we are vital to the nation's security per the RLA. To deny such things can happen is to deny what has already happened. And I doubt FedEx is laying off lobbyists.