It makes sense to fly the Ground freight, otherwise we would have to drive it through Canada, be subject to their customs laws, and it would likely be more expensive than putting it on a plane that is already going to ANC. Also, Ground pays Express for that space, much like the USPS pays for space to fly their mail. Sure, it's just taking money out of the left pocket and putting it in the right one, but we (Express) don't fly it for free.
Unionization from the inside out
- Thread starter FedExer267
- Start date
It makes sense to fly the Ground freight, otherwise we would have to drive it through Canada, be subject to their customs laws, and it would likely be more expensive than putting it on a plane that is already going to ANC. Also, Ground pays Express for that space, much like the USPS pays for space to fly their mail. Sure, it's just taking money out of the left pocket and putting it in the right one, but we (Express) don't fly it for free.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Perhaps Ground does pay, but in an incestuous relationship like this one, do you really think Ground pays the going rate? This seems to fly in the face of those who deny that it happens, doesn't it? There is probably a similar arrangement when a Ground truck picks-up Express freight and brings it to an Express ramp. Again, this supposedly never happens.
I've never seen anything about Ground paying Express for the space, but you're in a better position to know than me. Even if they "pay", I think it's obvious that there is much more integration between the two modes than is generally recognized.
And what about the integration/alignment of shipping and tracking systems? Why oh why would Fred spend so much money aligning two separate entities? bbsam, you out there? I think we need the tutor over here.
FedExer267
Well-Known Member
We have a daily pickup at Express and Express has a daily pickup at Ground because to the general public we are FEDEX. The system is not perfect I have had deliveries for Express on my truck which I have no way to scan. FedEx management says deliver it
which there is no way to track. They always say deliver it anyways we are the same Company anyways. Can you say claim.
Which is pretty much what I said and in response to what I said you stated
I then asked you to prove it, which you didn't. Then I realized that you probably just didn't read what I wrote in your haste to tell me that I was wrong. And now you've just agreed with what I said originally so I must not have been wrong.
Once again, to save time, I still accept your apology; however, I think that technically FedEx hasn't always been classified under the RLA. When the language to add express carriers back into the RLA was added into the FAA Act of 1996, why do you think that was such a big deal for FedEx? It's because from about the time the words "express carrier" was deleted from the ICA until it was added back in in 1996, I think technically if not actually, FedEx was covered under the NLRA.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Like I said, you're wrong. You're free to state otherwise, but FedEx Express has never been under the NLRA.
Wow! You really cannot accept that you made a mistake can you? I showed you where I said FedEx was under the RLA. I showed you where you said I was wrong. I showed you where you said FedEx was under the RLA. I showed you where you basically said the same thing I did and yet you continue to say that I'm wrong.
Life is too short to be that bitter about something or someone that you are so blinded by biases and preconceived notions. You disagree with me so much that even when your error was simply that you misunderstood what I said and I even pointed that out to you, that you cannot simply say "my mistake, I misunderstood" and move on. That's really quite sad.
As for the time period between "express carrier" being removed from the Interstate Commerce Act and being added back in when the 1996 FAA Act was passed, as I said, I "think" that FedEx was actually covered under the NLRA for that brief period of time. I didn't say I was sure and I didn't make an absolute statement simply because I'm not 100% sure. If I'm wrong about that, then at least I can admit I'm wrong. I am, however, pretty sure that it did happen that way, I just don't have the time right now to research it and provide the documentation. Anyone interested is welcome to research it. Again, if I'm wrong, then I apologize in advance.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
You're taking this way too seriously. If we were ever under the NLRA, it wasn't long enough to break Fred's grip anyway. As long as he keeps throwing money at the right people, he gets his way. That's it...
The good thing is that hopefully this thread will give people a little clearer picture of you. Hopefully people reading this will question the words of someone who is so unwilling to admit they made a simple mistake. My comments were never about right or wrong. All I did was clarify that FedEx was under the RLA from the beginning. You said I was wrong and that FedEx was always under the RLA. We both said the same thing and yet you keep insisting that I'm wrong.
I don't think you understand how it would nearly be impossible to form a union at FedEx Express since they are covered by the RLA instead of the NLRB.
Say for example warehouse workers at the hub in Providence wanted to join a union. They would have to secretly get at least 30% (but realistically should get 80%) of the workforce to sign a union card in Providence. After all the cards would be verified by the NLRB, there would be a union election in 90 days.
At that point FedEx would spend MILLIONS by hiring private union-busting layer firms to go in and scare and intimidate workers from joining a union.
If the workers are somehow able to win an election, then the workforce is now unionized.
Of course FedEx wouldn't want that so they could simply shut down that hub and divert all the work to other terminals. Needless to say, the union would have to organize almost all the hubs and terminals in that area.
Now under the NLRB, the ENTIRE FedEx express company would have thousands of workers sign union cards in secret (which would be practically impossible without the bosses finding out). Trust me, as long as FedEx is spending millions on this "Brown Bailout" campaign to prevent Express from becoming covered by the NLRB which could give the option of them going union.
They already bought of their local Democrat politician who represents the area in congress.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Whatever game you're playing...play without me. If admitting something makes you feel better, I admit to it, whatever it was. I agree that FedEx was under the RLA when the company started, and you thought that they were under the NLRA for a short period of time, which I know nothing about. FedEx has always been trucks with an airline, not an airline with trucks. Over the years, the portion of the company that is air ops has become proprtionately less than it was at the company's inception. We have a relative handful of aircraft, pilots, aircraft mechanics, flight dispatchers etc., in comparison to trucks, couriers, vehicle mechanics, and route dispatchers. Just like UPS.
I don't know all the numbers as far as breakdown of job functions, but the best numbers as far as planes/vehicles/employees that I could find were:
FedEx Express: 694 aircraft and approx. 43,000 motorized vehicles, 141,000 employees worldwide
UPS: 266 aircraft and approx. 95,000 motorized vehicles, 425,000 employees worldwide
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Do the UPS and FedEx totals include supplemental aircraft (Caravans, other feeder aircraft)? I'm also thinking that the FedEx employee total is a bit low. I've heard the 275,000 figure tossed around before, but I don't know the actual number.
FedExer267
Well-Known Member
I have heard the 275,000 number as well but that is usually when they include employees from the Ground operations I believe, not sure I could be wrong.
I walked into work today and alot of drivers are mumbling about the loaders getting benefits and vacation time they all are saying that it is ridiculous that we are the ones who are the frontlines of the company dealing with the customers and the loaders are making a higher wage when you include their benefit package. Drivers in general are upset.
The funny thing is these so called managers are still on us daily about what we are wearing because we have no (FedEx) jackets, they are on us for delivery percentages, they are on us for customers calling in and complaining that we wiil not wait around, they tried sending a few drivers home because they did not like their apperance. They have no problem however sending us out on the road in trucks with no heaters, doors that stick, bald tires, trucks that leak, and lights that are out. I would think they would be on the Contractors about these things however its just another example of when its convient to treat us like employees versus contractors.
If FedEx wants to treat us like employees fine then atleast give us the perks of being employees.
I walked into work today and alot of drivers are mumbling about the loaders getting benefits and vacation time they all are saying that it is ridiculous that we are the ones who are the frontlines of the company dealing with the customers and the loaders are making a higher wage when you include their benefit package. Drivers in general are upset.
The funny thing is these so called managers are still on us daily about what we are wearing because we have no (FedEx) jackets, they are on us for delivery percentages, they are on us for customers calling in and complaining that we wiil not wait around, they tried sending a few drivers home because they did not like their apperance. They have no problem however sending us out on the road in trucks with no heaters, doors that stick, bald tires, trucks that leak, and lights that are out. I would think they would be on the Contractors about these things however its just another example of when its convient to treat us like employees versus contractors.
If FedEx wants to treat us like employees fine then atleast give us the perks of being employees.
Sorry, those numbers were for Express only, FedEx Corp. is about 285,000 employees and approx. 80,000 motorized vehicles. More exact info on the aircraft fleets.....
UPS Aircraft Breakdown:
(265 owned with 32 on order)
- 2 Boeing 727-100/200 (Both currently leased to other airlines)
- 46 DC 8-71/73
- 75 Boeing 757-200
- 32 Boeing 767-300ER (27 on order)
- 53 A300F4-600R
- 7 Boeing 747-100
- 4 Boeing 747-200
- 9 Boeing 747-400, one currently in pass. to freight conversion (5 on order)
- 38 MD-11
Airbus A310-200/300 53 Exiting service: 3 in 2012 Boeing 727–200 77 Exiting service:
9 in 2011, 25 in 2012, 10 in 2013, 16 in 2014, 11 in 2015, 6 in 2016
Replacement aircraft: Boeing 757–200
Fitted with hush kits Boeing 757–200 48
(18 used orders) Entering service: 9 in 2011, 9 in 2012
Replacing Boeing 727–200 Boeing 777F 11
(27 orders)[25]
(15 options) Entry into service: 2009–2019
Entering service: 1 in 2011, 6 in 2012, 6 in 2013, 3 in 2014, 3 in 2015, 3 in 2016
2 on order from Air France[26] McDonnell Douglas MD-10-10 58
McDonnell Douglas MD-10-30 17
Exiting service: 1 in 2012, 2 in 2013, 3 in 2014 McDonnell Douglas MD-11 60
ATR 42-300/320 26 Operated as FedEx Feeder ATR 72–200 21 Operated as FedEx Feeder Cessna Caravan 208A 10 Operated as FedEx Feeder Cessna Caravan 208B 242 Operated as FedEx Feeder Total 694(+45 orders)
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Subtract the feeders, and the total is much closer. UPS has Feeders too, but since they don't own the aircraft, they are not counted. As far as I know, all FedEx Feeder aircraft are operated by non-FedEx third party contractors like Empire Air. They do the maintenance and provide the pilots.
Underground efforts? You helping wage slaves escape? Seriously, any talk of sabotage doesn't help matters and could land someone in jail. No one likes to be lied to or exploited. But for crying out loud we still have it better than many and the new rules of the RLA allow a union vote. FexEx is what it is, take your anger out on those who deserted us: the Democratic Congress and the Teamsters. And wake up to the new economic reality of the world, we aren't what we once were, and the powers that be are making sure they get their cut first.
DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS
Well-Known Member
If we're not careful, we're going to end up Chinese. They seem to buying us up piece by piece, debt by debt.
Oh please. How are they going to outsource a domestic delivery job?
