Unsafe Equipment - ON TOPIC

[PiedmontSteward]

Seriously?

Union members cannot be required to inform/provide statements on other members. It rarely happens but you can be brought before your local's e-board and expelled from your local for doing so.

If you do this, you're a rat. If someone is stupid enough not to report an accident, then the company is going to eventually catch them. UPS has LP supervisors and other goons on their payroll for a reason.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever (heard) read.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever (heard) read.

 

[Integrity]

We're Teamsters, not rats.

PeidmontSteward,

I really encourage you to renew your thinking in this area.

This mob mentality has really done a lot to contribute to the hatred of unions and unionism in this country.

To be a union member should mean something.

It should mean you are getting the best of the best.

Unfortunately most often this is just not the case.

Unions should not just be parasites to an organization, any organization.

They should also not be parasites to their membership.

Teamster international officials, local officials, and members should not lie, cheat or steal or tolerate those who do.

Sincerely,
I

 

[Catatonic]

Union members cannot be required to inform/provide statements on other members. It rarely happens but you can be brought before your local's e-board and expelled from your local for doing so.

If you do this, you're a rat. If someone is stupid enough not to report an accident, then the company is going to eventually catch them. UPS has LP supervisors and other goons on their payroll for a reason.

So if you as a Teamster see a another Teamster with a rifle saying he is going to kill somebody, your opinion is that you should not report this?
This does not have the ring of honesty or believability.

If an eboard were to actually expel someone for reporting this, they should be expelled.
Their discipline should be "if the observer did not report it".

Granted that I did not grow up in the Northeast Union environment but what you are suggesting is ethically and morally wrong if not legally wrong.

 

[Jackburton]

Whatever happened to putting your arm around a fellow teamster? You see something and help them understand why they can't be doing these things, without involving management. People make mistakes guys, as a brotherhood you walk with your brother and help him get straight because you care about him and his family.

UPS already has a knee jerk reaction to every small thing without considering what someone is going through be it at home or work. Walk alongside someone your concerned about and think about how 20years ago when someone you didn't know very well came along and gave you a second chance, advice, or just an ear to talk with.

Teamsters are family and like most families you run into problems, you don't call the cops, you deal with it in your house.

 

[Integrity]

Whatever happened to putting your arm around a fellow teamster? You see something and help them understand why they can't be doing these things, without involving management. People make mistakes guys, as a brotherhood you walk with your brother and help him get straight because you care about him and his family.

UPS already has a knee jerk reaction to every small thing without considering what someone is going through be it at home or work. Walk alongside someone your concerned about and think about how 20years ago when someone you didn't know very well came along and gave you a second chance, advice, or just an ear to talk with.

Teamsters are family and like most families you run into problems, you don't call the cops, you deal with it in your house.

Jackburton,

I have over the years tried to approach teamsters about their wrong doings and there has not been one instance where the teamster I approached didn't get insulting or hostile with me.

The person spoke to me and treated me in a manner that if I was not in the workplace could have easily led to a physical altercation.

These wrong doings in question were things that was causing trouble for many not just me.

These individuals are not true union members and the sooner they are gone the quicker there may be space for someone who may be a credit to the union not a discredit.

I will no longer ever confront any fellow worker personally. Nothing good can come from this.

If a situation warrants a report then so be it. I am not offended by being called a rat by true union rats.

I guess it takes a true rat to know one when they see one.

Sincerely,
I

 

[Jackburton]

Jackburton,

I have over the years tried to approach teamsters about their wrong doings and there has not been one instance where the teamster I approached didn't get insulting or hostile with me.

The person spoke to me and treated me in a manner that if I was not in the workplace could have easily led to a physical altercation.

These wrong doings in question were things that was causing trouble for many not just me.

These individuals are not true union members and the sooner they are gone the quicker there may be space for someone who may be a credit to the union not a discredit.

I will no longer ever confront any fellow worker personally. Nothing good can come from this.

If a situation warrants a report then so be it. I am not offended by being called a rat by true union rats.

I guess it takes a true rat to know one when they see one.

Sincerely,
I

If you spoke to me in the condescending way you do on here, I'd be defensive as well. You point out others faults and never offer solutions, only speak down to people as if you want them to solve thier own problems. I'm real in this forum as much as I am at work. If you are just the same, this is why you get the ignores and hate you do, here and at work.

This will be my only response to you.

 

[Integrity]

If you spoke to me in the condescending way you do on here, I'd be defensive as well. You point out others faults and never offer solutions, only speak down to people as if you want them to solve thier own problems. I'm real in this forum as much as I am at work. If you are just the same, this is why you get the ignores and hate you do, here and at work.

This will be my only response to you.

Jackburton,

I did not say defensive. I said insulting and hostile.

Most of your posts relating to Integrity are defensive not insulting or hostile.

Just an example since you don't seem to know the difference defensive responses and insulting or hostile ones.

Sincerely,
I

 

[PiedmontSteward]

So if you as a Teamster see a another Teamster with a rifle saying he is going to kill somebody, your opinion is that you should not report this?
This does not have the ring of honesty or believability.

If an eboard were to actually expel someone for reporting this, they should be expelled.
Their discipline should be "if the observer did not report it".

Granted that I did not grow up in the Northeast Union environment but what you are suggesting is ethically and morally wrong if not legally wrong.

Maybe you can fill me in, but how did we go from discussing a Teamster turning in/not turning in a fellow union member over clipping a curb in a package car to a union member turning a blind eye to a potential mass shooting? There's something called context and you willfully ignored it.

As far as being "ethically/morally wrong", how about this: Would you turn in your in-laws for cheating on their taxes? Would you call the sheriff's department on your kids for smoking pot?

I've seen 20+ year members that management had a hard-on for get taken out over petty bull because they were ratted out by another member in a statement that went to panel. When we're talking about taking someone's livelihood and how they feed their family, we (as union members) shouldn't be helping the company out.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

PeidmontSteward,

I really encourage you to renew your thinking in this area.

This mob mentality has really done a lot to contribute to the hatred of unions and unionism in this country.

To be a union member should mean something.

It should mean you are getting the best of the best.

Unfortunately most often this is just not the case.

Unions should not just be parasites to an organization, any organization.

They should also not be parasites to their membership.

Teamster international officials, local officials, and members should not lie, cheat or steal or tolerate those who do.

Sincerely,
I

The tradition against informing in organized labor began long before elements of La Cosa Nostra infiltrated unions. Businesses often hired private detectives (Pinkertons) and paid stool pigeons to infiltrate labor unions for purposes of espionage and/or outright disruption. This was during the same time period when hired gun thugs were literally murdering strikers and organizers seemingly at will; these rules against informing could literally be the difference between life and death in the early 1900's.

 

[you aint even know it]

Just do your job. UPS is more safety-conscious than most companies. Just do your job!

Actually the opposite. I hate to say this, but here it goes - UPS is literally the worse company I've ever worked for in terms of how they treat their employees. Fedex has to be better, and I'm not talking about compensation wise.

 

[you aint even know it]

Maybe you can fill me in, but how did we go from discussing a Teamster turning in/not turning in a fellow union member over clipping a curb in a package car to a union member turning a blind eye to a potential mass shooting? There's something called context and you willfully ignored it.

As far as being "ethically/morally wrong", how about this: Would you turn in your in-laws for cheating on their taxes? Would you call the sheriff's department on your kids for smoking pot?

I've seen 20+ year members that management had a hard-on for get taken out over petty bull because they were ratted out by another member in a statement that went to panel. When we're talking about taking someone's livelihood and how they feed their family, we (as union members) shouldn't be helping the company out.

Agree. Even if we think they deserve it.

 

[Catatonic]

Maybe you can fill me in, but how did we go from discussing a Teamster turning in/not turning in a fellow union member over clipping a curb in a package car to a union member turning a blind eye to a potential mass shooting? There's something called context and you willfully ignored it.

As far as being "ethically/morally wrong", how about this: Would you turn in your in-laws for cheating on their taxes? Would you call the sheriff's department on your kids for smoking pot?

I've seen 20+ year members that management had a hard-on for get taken out over petty bull because they were ratted out by another member in a statement that went to panel. When we're talking about taking someone's livelihood and how they feed their family, we (as union members) shouldn't be helping the company out.

I equated a gun and a vehicle as weapons.
I equated an announcement of intent with observed actions.
I thought they were comparable.

I never thought about it in terms of helping the company out but rather being a responsible member of society.
I personally would have called the police than UPS anyway.

I guess I have led a sheltered life in some ways as this is an alien concept to me.
I remember when Michael Vick got busted for Dog Fighting, there were many people I was around inside and outside UPS that expressed their belief that there was nothing wrong with that.

Then as now, I am learning of another culture right under my nose that I was never aware of.

 

[TheBrownGuy]

Jackburton,

I have over the years tried to approach teamsters about their wrong doings and there has not been one instance where the teamster I approached didn't get insulting or hostile with me.

The person spoke to me and treated me in a manner that if I was not in the workplace could have easily led to a physical altercation.

These wrong doings in question were things that was causing trouble for many not just me.

These individuals are not true union members and the sooner they are gone the quicker there may be space for someone who may be a credit to the union not a discredit.

I will no longer ever confront any fellow worker personally. Nothing good can come from this.

If a situation warrants a report then so be it. I am not offended by being called a rat by true union rats.

I guess it takes a true rat to know one when they see one.

Sincerely,
I

If you want others to have integrity you will have to start looking at them as brothers, not rats.

Did the driver do something careless, perhaps even reckless? Probably. We know he was a seasonal so perhaps it was more a case of inexperience. And he probably knew that he would be let go immediately if he reported what happened.

Could he have been approached 1 on 1 by the other former UPSer...Who knows? He said he doesn't work for UPS anymore.

If he could not have been contacted 1 on 1, could the former UPSer have made a call that expressed his concern about the careless driving without giving them the specifics about the accident, and perhaps spared his job while still getting the message across?

The careless driving was observed once by the former UPSer and once by his wife. How does he know for sure they were the same driver?

Haven't we all been guilty of driving carelessly at one point or another?

If there is a need to correct someone, it should be done as quietly as possible.... For your consideration:

If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

 

[TheBrownGuy]

I equated a gun and a vehicle as weapons.
I equated an announcement of intent with observed actions.
I thought they were comparable.

I am sure you can see that equating a "Teamster with a rifle saying he is going to kill somebody" with a rookie driver clipping a curb is a rather rediculous comparison.

-The gravity of the offences are not comparable.
-The intent of actors is not comparable. We have no knowledge of the intent of the driver.

To take you approach.... If I saw a driver not ring or knock at a delivery would I be morally obligated to immediately report him to his supervisor?
You can see how intent and gravity of the offence are critical when trying to equate rule violations and an appropriate response.


Read more: http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/unsafe-equipment-on-topic.354571/page-3#ixzz2rIXVnZuh

 

[TheBrownGuy]

No offense, but how do you guys even respond to someone that speaks of himself as a third party? Or was this an accident?

ChickenLegs and Integrity seem to have a similar writing style......

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I saw it first hand with a seasonal who hit and destroyed the curb at the corner of my street. He took the turn way too tight, rolled up on curb, which has a manhole to access the storm drains, and the added weight of the vehicle on top of it collapsed the roof of the drain. I called it into to the building, and they said they knew nothing of it. Needless to say they said goodbye to him the next day.

Piedmont, this sounds like it was more than "clipping the curb".

 

[Indecisi0n]

 

[you aint even know it]

I am sure you can see that equating a "Teamster with a rifle saying he is going to kill somebody" with a rookie driver clipping a curb is a rather rediculous comparison.

-The gravity of the offences are not comparable.
-The intent of actors is not comparable. We have no knowledge of the intent of the driver.

To take you approach.... If I saw a driver not ring or knock at a delivery would I be morally obligated to immediately report him to his supervisor?
You can see how intent and gravity of the offence are critical when trying to equate rule violations and an appropriate response.


Read more: http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/unsafe-equipment-on-topic.354571/page-3#ixzz2rIXVnZuh

Wow, you just bombarded his argument.