UPS and biodiesel

[soberups]

Sober you talk a big talk a lot of the time while at the same time condemning others that don't align with you. In reality, you are no better, or smarter than any of us. I'm not trying to rag, but come down and talk with us instead of at us.

I'm not condemning anybody. If you want to drive a 10 MPG SUV, that is your business. I believe in freedom of choice...but choices come with consequences and spending $200 to fill the tank on a hummer ought to be one of them. We in America have developed an entitlement mentality towards cheap limitless energy, and that mentality is going to have to change. The oil is going to run out. Its not a question of if, only a question of when.

 

[rod]

We get about 1/3 of our oil from Canada, a large portion of which is produced from the tar sands of Alberta. It takes about 7 barrels of water to produce a barrel of oil from the tar sands. Water is too precious of a commodity to be wasted to get a ratio like that.
www.tarsandswatch.org

What is really wasteful is the amount of fossil fuel required to produce a gallon of ethanol

 

[pretzel_man]

Biofuels from agricultural products are a dead end. The real solution is biodiesel produced from algae. Algae can be farmed in the desert, using brackish water or even untreated sewage. It wouldn't require arable land and it doesnt have to compete with food.
The problem is one of economics. It is still cheaper to drill for oil...although if the cost of a military occupation in Iraq is factored in it really isnt any cheaper, its just that those costs are not being borne by the end consumer of the fuel but are intead being passed onto future generations in the form of debt.
If fossil fuel were taxed to pay for our military and eliminate the federal deficit, it could cost $8 or $9 a gallon. This would allow biofuels to compete on a level playing field. Combine that with a switch to diesel-electric hybrid vehicles that get 50-60 MPG, and we could be energy independent.
This technology already exists. It is simlply a matter of making it economically viable. Whether we like it or not, oil will run out one day. We need to start making changes now.

For the sake of our kids, I hope you're right.

P-Man

 

[Coldworld]

does anyone have a prias. there are a few videos on youtube where there are companies that modify the batteries in these toyotas and they are getting 100mpg. Has anyone seen this???

 

[soberups]

What is really wasteful is the amount of fossil fuel required to produce a gallon of ethanol

That is because we are going about it the wrong way. Corn is a horribly inefficient way to make ethanol, but the corn lobby in Washington is quite powerful. Hemp and switchgrass are far better crops for this purpose, they use far less water, and they can be grown in rotation with other crops to avoid depleting the soil...but those crops dont have a congressional lobby.
One thing to bear in mind however is that the majority of corn grown in this country is actually used for cattle feed. If you feed a cow raw corn it digests the starch and protien and farts out a huge amount of methane. If you take that same corn and refine it into ethanol, what you are left with are high-protien "distillers grains" that can still be fed to cattle....only instead of farting gas into the atmosphere, that same gas is being refined into ethanol prior to feeding. So when we criticize corn ethanol as a fuel we need to bear in mind that it can be made as a by-product of cattle food that is already being grown and is thereby getting two uses from the same crop.

 

[alister]

What is really wasteful is the amount of fossil fuel required to produce a gallon of ethanol

Rod, your talking about corn based ethanol, which gets about 1.3 energy efficient. meaening you get 1.3 parts of energy for every 1 part you put in. not all methods are made the same. ethanol made from sugar is more than 8 times efficent. this is why Brazil's biofuel business is doing so well. there are other crops that might work as well or better. we just have to wait and see.