UPS can't compete because of high labor costs?

upsgrunt

Well-Known Member
[QUO I would also not be surprised to see a two-tiered wage system proposed. [/QUOTE]

Could you explain how this would be done please?
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
There are days here and there where I can't help but think "Am I really getting paid this much to drive around?" but that is usually when I'm on a rural route. :) I do think a pay freeze for us full-timers wouldn't be a bad thing as long as we get COLA. Give the part-timers raises. They need it. I'm a lifer at UPS and I want us to be able to keep beating FedEx years down the road. Customers have always preferred us because of service (and sometimes price too) but nowadays they are willing to sacrifice that service to save a buck. I'd hate to lose allot of business to FredEx because of price alone while we are making $30+/hr. I have to admit that sometimes I think we are overpaid. If I had walked into this job and made $10/hr less I would have been happy. I have friends that have been with other companies 10+ years and don't even make half of what we make and some of them have college degrees! I'm happy for what we get paid but we have to think long term. Can we continue to get these huge raises while trying to fight off FedEx?
 

brownmonster

Man of Great Wisdom
Very simple. You would be grandfathered in to the top wage. New hire drivers would be in progression for 3 years and then top out at some amount that is less than your top wage. Say 25 an hour. Happens in union factories in my neck of the woods. Guys working side by side and one makes less.
 

Cementups

Box Monkey
The median income for a household in the township was $53,144, and the median income for a family was $57,009. Males had a median income of $41,158 versus $31,230 for females. The per capita income for the township was $21,723. About 2.4% of families and 3.1% of the population were below the poverty line, including 2.2% of those under age 18 and 3.3% of those age 65 or over.

^this is the median for the township I live in. I guess I am doing pretty well, but I could certainly be paid more if the wanted to give me more. :D
 

NHDRVR

Well-Known Member
There are days here and there where I can't help but think "Am I really getting paid this much to drive around?" but that is usually when I'm on a rural route. :) I do think a pay freeze for us full-timers wouldn't be a bad thing as long as we get COLA. Give the part-timers raises. They need it. I'm a lifer at UPS and I want us to be able to keep beating FedEx years down the road. Customers have always preferred us because of service (and sometimes price too) but nowadays they are willing to sacrifice that service to save a buck. I'd hate to lose allot of business to FredEx because of price alone while we are making $30+/hr. I have to admit that sometimes I think we are overpaid. If I had walked into this job and made $10/hr less I would have been happy. I have friends that have been with other companies 10+ years and don't even make half of what we make and some of them have college degrees! I'm happy for what we get paid but we have to think long term. Can we continue to get these huge raises while trying to fight off FedEx?

'huge raises??'

I must be working in the wrong center...
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Very simple. You would be grandfathered in to the top wage. New hire drivers would be in progression for 3 years and then top out at some amount that is less than your top wage. Say 25 an hour. Happens in union factories in my neck of the woods. Guys working side by side and one makes less.
Happens in my neck of the woods too. But it seems that the union constantly folds in subsequent negotiations once that concession is made. Kind of a divide and conquer strategy by the company while saving millions along the way.
 

sosocal

Well-Known Member
What has changed? I am as busy as ever. My route is getting smaller all the time because of stop concentration. I see in the back of the FedEx ground truck every morning. It is pretty lean. And he covers the area of 5 ups drivers. I disagree that labor costs are hurting us.
the revenue per piece is way down...shippers are using a higher percentage of defered service levels...And FedEx is exploiting its cost advantage like never before giving out rates that are ridiculous - We either lose or cut our margins drastically. I woulnt say it is the end of the world for UPS....But it is not - nor will it be what it used to be. And in upcoming contracts the labor costs must be addressed...

In the current cost structure - UPS cannot maintain and recruit solid mgt as they have cut salaries and benifits...There will be a revolving door when the economy turns around. The reason UPS has been able to compete at the cost disadvantage that we have had is our people... BETTER WORKFORCE... Better hourlies, and yes Better management -- Which leads to a BETTER MANAGED COMPANY... It is evident in our technology, systems and processes. But harder working employees will be surpassed by inferior counterparts that have better systems, technology and processes (better management)... An economic system will only thrive in the long term when the customers, workers, managers (executors, strategists) and shareholders (owners) share in a balanced system of sacrifice/ risk leading to reward.

Right now I would contend that the workers bucket of availbale resouces is slightly out of skew inhibiting the system's use of shareholder reward (capital), Customer usage (revenue and margin) and management innovation to thrive long term. Particularly in a highly competitive envoronment.

WOW - that felt like I was back in my college days.
 

brownrodster

Well-Known Member
There are days here and there where I can't help but think "Am I really getting paid this much to drive around?" but that is usually when I'm on a rural route. :) I do think a pay freeze for us full-timers wouldn't be a bad thing as long as we get COLA. Give the part-timers raises. They need it. I'm a lifer at UPS and I want us to be able to keep beating FedEx years down the road. Customers have always preferred us because of service (and sometimes price too) but nowadays they are willing to sacrifice that service to save a buck. I'd hate to lose allot of business to FredEx because of price alone while we are making $30+/hr. I have to admit that sometimes I think we are overpaid. If I had walked into this job and made $10/hr less I would have been happy. I have friends that have been with other companies 10+ years and don't even make half of what we make and some of them have college degrees! I'm happy for what we get paid but we have to think long term. Can we continue to get these huge raises while trying to fight off FedEx?

I fully agree with you. In the same situation here. I know some rural routes where I think it's a total joke to pay me 30$ an hour to go drive 175 miles and basically do nothing. But I also know some b4ll busting P12 routes that I wouldn't be willing to do for less than 25$ an hour. If I was stuck on my training route forever and had to work for 20$ an hour I would have been out the door and long gone.

I think our raises in this contract are insanely good. 4$ over 5 years is better than any other union job around here. My father works for one of the largest union employers here with a skilled job and he only makes around 24$ an hour and his raises are simple COLA that are around .20$ per year.

Granted, I would NEVER work for UPS if I was in a big city. I would have taken a job along the lines of what I studied at university. This job would be too hard in a major metro area. But in some backwoods small town this is the gravy train.
 

brownrodster

Well-Known Member
^this is the median for the township I live in. I guess I am doing pretty well, but I could certainly be paid more if the wanted to give me more. :D

I live in a county that has 190,000 people. My UPS center services this county in it's entirety and nothing more.

The median household income in my county is 43,000$ per year. I make double that as a UPS driver. Obviously this reflects in my belief that we are overpaid.
 

JimJimmyJames

Big Time Feeder Driver
We are not over-paid at the level of production we are expected to maintain.

However, I do believe we have reached the point where to ask for more is not possible. And only because we compete against a scofflaw company, FedEx Ground.

P.S. I would completely oppose a two-tiered wage system. It makes a mockery of the collective bargaining process. It should only be considered if the company threatens to shutdown for good because of proven catastrophic financial difficulties.
 

1989

Well-Known Member
We are not over-paid at the level of production we are expected to maintain.

However, I do believe we have reached the point where to ask for more is not possible. And only because we compete against a scofflaw company, FedEx Ground.

P.S. I would completely oppose a two-tiered wage system. It makes a mockery of the collective bargaining process. It should only be considered if the company threatens to shutdown for good because of proven catastrophic financial difficulties.


Isn't there already a two-tiered wage system with part timers that are red circled?
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
My 22.3 job, overpaid. I am getting away with murder and not nearly as much as other 22.3s in our building.

The driving qualification (which the company abused me as hard and long as they could), I was underpaid. Period.

UPS clearly did not want a 22.3 to bid into FT driving because they can pay a casual 14/hr off the street to work peak instead of top-rate.

I agree with over9-5 overall. Everyone has a different story and it is all perspective. One person may earn their dough and then deserve more, the other not so much.
 

John19841

Well-Known Member
When the company is in danger of no longer being profitable, then we can talk about concessions or give-backs. Until that point, definitely not.

Besides, how can we even consider pay cuts when our CEO (who is already paid at the rate of how many drivers?) voluntarily takes a raise the size he did?

Where I'm from UPS pays a decent, living wage. Average income for my area is $68,000. I know there's a lot of people living on less. I get that. But look at it the other way; There's a whole heck of a lot living on more than that too.

What I don't understand, I mean really don't get it, is why is so looked down upon in our society for a company to pay its employees a living wage? Especially when there's a union involved. Great example is auto workers. Everyone says they're paid too much. Is it too much to expect to get paid a salary one can live on, especially when they're responsible for building one of our biggest 'assets'/purchases?

...I blame it on Wal-Mart...
 

John19841

Well-Known Member
One more thing to think about. How many of you can honestly say that you feel overpaid not only when you're delivering resi's at 6:00 on a beautiful summer evening and every family is out cooking on the grill, but when 8:00 rolls around and you're still going like crazy because they threw that extra split on you. Now repeat times every day. You really feel overpaid then?
 
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