UPS Feeder accident in Orlando 8/27

[tieguy]

I assume you are being sarcastic because we got a whole batch of drivers that are former package car jackrabbits that are now feeder jackrabbits and will hop into any shizbox that starts without so much as a look at a pretrip. As far as bad axles, try and find any minor cracks in equipment covered in years of dirt and grease. Years back we had a batch of new Fords,now made by Sterling, that had bad axles from the factory. The whole group of them had to be tagged.

My money is on the "hot loads , gotta go" bet. Happens all the time here. Why would it be any different anywhere else.

You guys make assumptions that the sup rushed the driver when my experience is that very few drivers can do a complete and thorough pretrip and our audits show drivers routinely miss DOT required items.Even with a sup riding with the driver the sup generally does not have the driver call out everything he is pre-trippiing. So a look in the general direction of the equipment is probably determined to be his checking the steering components. Axles and U joints are not always easy to catch on a pre-trip due to the reasons you list. My question would be what indication did they have while driving. If its an axle then you would think it gave off some vibration before it broke. Are we sure it was an axle? They usually do not break. If he had steering issues then it sounds more like he blew a steering tire. The other question is why the fire? I've seen some accidents where drivers flipped and rolled equipment and had no fire.

 

[cachsux]

You guys make assumptions that the sup rushed the driver when my experience is that very few drivers can do a complete and thorough pretrip and our audits show drivers routinely miss DOT required items.Even with a sup riding with the driver the sup generally does not have the driver call out everything he is pre-trippiing. So a look in the general direction of the equipment is probably determined to be his checking the steering components. Axles and U joints are not always easy to catch on a pre-trip due to the reasons you list. My question would be what indication did they have while driving. If its an axle then you would think it gave off some vibration before it broke. Are we sure it was an axle? They usually do not break. If he had steering issues then it sounds more like he blew a steering tire. The other question is why the fire? I've seen some accidents where drivers flipped and rolled equipment and had no fire.

If you read my post again, I said "drivers". You are right on as far as some of them and pretrips. I don`t know how many times I`ve seen people driving tractors with obvious problems that can be seen in only a glance. But I have also experienced the sup that tried to get me to do something that shouldn`t be done.

In this case, the mechanical breakdown on the primary vehicle, it almost always turns into a "we gotta hurry" situation. I`m not saying the sup pushed. They very well may have both been running around like a chicken with their heads cut off.

As far as the fire I wonder if contact with the car spilled fuel and shorted electricals set it ablaze?

 

[UPSBluRdg03]

I can remember earlier this year getting off after dark and following a feeder pulling doubles out to the interstate from the hub. As im following him out the single lane road toward the insterstate I keep hearing a screeching nose. I turn down the radio thinking its coming from my truck. I then see sparks flying off the 2nd trailer in front of me. There is a gravel pull off out at the stoplight before you get on interstate. I figure the driver must hear it and will pull over. Nope he pulls on up to the light. I think about running up and telling him about it but the light turns green and he pulls on out and merges onto interstate. I follow as im going the same way and all the while a steady stream of sparks is flying back between the axles on the trailer as he picks up speed getting on interstate. He merges off the ramp and puts the hammer down. I fall out and get beside him and see one of the legs on the landing gear is stuck down and is dragging the pavement and by this time the is quite a glow of dragging steel from under the truck. He procedes to the split heads South and I head North wondering how in the hell he didnt see the leg still down when hooking up and especially how he didnt see the glow in his mirrors. Or maybe he knew and was told to roll on. Never heard anything about it afterwards thankfully but thought it might have been one of those "these loads gotta go" situations too.

 

[cachsux]

Or maybe he knew and was told to roll on. Never heard anything about it afterwards thankfully but thought it might have been one of those "these loads gotta go" situations too.

No,chalk that one up to poor pretrip.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I can remember earlier this year getting off after dark and following a feeder pulling doubles out to the interstate from the hub. As im following him out the single lane road toward the insterstate I keep hearing a screeching nose. I turn down the radio thinking its coming from my truck. I then see sparks flying off the 2nd trailer in front of me. There is a gravel pull off out at the stoplight before you get on interstate. I figure the driver must hear it and will pull over. Nope he pulls on up to the light. I think about running up and telling him about it but the light turns green and he pulls on out and merges onto interstate. I follow as im going the same way and all the while a steady stream of sparks is flying back between the axles on the trailer as he picks up speed getting on interstate. He merges off the ramp and puts the hammer down. I fall out and get beside him and see one of the legs on the landing gear is stuck down and is dragging the pavement and by this time the is quite a glow of dragging steel from under the truck. He procedes to the split heads South and I head North wondering how in the hell he didnt see the leg still down when hooking up and especially how he didnt see the glow in his mirrors. Or maybe he knew and was told to roll on. Never heard anything about it afterwards thankfully but thought it might have been one of those "these loads gotta go" situations too.

Did you at any point think to call the center or hub, apprise them of the situation so that they could contact the driver?

 

[UPSBluRdg03]

Yea thats what I figured too. I cant imagine any driver in their right mind seeing a safety issue with a piece of equipment and because mgmt saying you gotta go, that he or she would actually negate the problem and drive or pull it regardless.

 

[cachsux]

Yea thats what I figured too. I cant imagine any driver in their right mind seeing a safety issue with a piece of equipment and because mgmt saying you gotta go, that he or she would actually negate the problem and drive or pull it regardless.

I`ve seen it all the time. Usually it`s the newer,naive driver who`s afraid to make waves/doesn`t know any better. Once a driver consistently,and rightfully, shows that they have the knowledge and experience to not be talked into or coerced into moving a bad piece of equipment then management moves on to the next new/naive driver. Then again you have the runner/gunners who`ll take career ending pieces of junk on the road for whatever reason they think is right.

 

[UPSBluRdg03]

Upstate, Yes actually I rode down the road a few miles and called my delivery center to try and get them to relay the message to feeders. The phone rang for several minutes with no answer which is a common occurance with the OMS going out to meet SDWC's and that was the end of the situation for me.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Upstate, Yes actually I rode down the road a few miles and called my delivery center to try and get them to relay the message to feeders. The phone rang for several minutes with no answer which is a common occurance with the OMS going out to meet SDWC's and that was the end of the situation for me.

Thanks for trying to do the right thing. Dave.

 

[tieguy]

If you read my post again, I said "drivers". You are right on as far as some of them and pretrips. I don`t know how many times I`ve seen people driving tractors with obvious problems that can be seen in only a glance. But I have also experienced the sup that tried to get me to do something that shouldn`t be done.

In this case, the mechanical breakdown on the primary vehicle, it almost always turns into a "we gotta hurry" situation. I`m not saying the sup pushed. They very well may have both been running around like a chicken with their heads cut off.

As far as the fire I wonder if contact with the car spilled fuel and shorted electricals set it ablaze?

If i made a post where I speculated that the driver was intoxicated you folks would have shot me for it, however the assumption the sup had the driver doing something unsafe goes unchallenged. Even though you would think the sup would have had the driver do everything safely if for no other reason then the fact the sup is riding with the guy.

 

[cachsux]

If i made a post where I speculated that the driver was intoxicated you folks would have shot me for it, however the assumption the sup had the driver doing something unsafe goes unchallenged. Even though you would think the sup would have had the driver do everything safely if for no other reason then the fact the sup is riding with the guy.

Let`s leave Klein out of the discussion for now. I originally said "place your bets, full pretrip or hurry up and go". I never said the sup made the driver do it. Is it possible? You and I both know it is. Is it possible the driver,on his own, pretripped the tractor simply by twisting the ignition key. You and I both know it is also. The sup very well could have been taking a leak while the driver pretripped the tractor. Jump in,let`s go.
My point in replying to the others is it doe`s happen where sups do push drivers. I also pointed out that there are also a group of drivers who need no pushing whatsoever to get themselves into a situation like this. You and I both know we have had crashes in this company for both of the previously mentioned reasons. Who knows what this one was. Like I said, they got lucky this time.

 

[tieguy]

Let`s leave Klein out of the discussion for now. I originally said "place your bets, full pretrip or hurry up and go". I never said the sup made the driver do it. Is it possible? You and I both know it is. Is it possible the driver,on his own, pretripped the tractor simply by twisting the ignition key. You and I both know it is also. The sup very well could have been taking a leak while the driver pretripped the tractor. Jump in,let`s go.
My point in replying to the others is it doe`s happen where sups do push drivers. I also pointed out that there are also a group of drivers who need no pushing whatsoever to get themselves into a situation like this. You and I both know we have had crashes in this company for both of the previously mentioned reasons. Who knows what this one was. Like I said, they got lucky this time.

Absolutely. Our supervisors all have death wish's and routinely tell drivers to violate the law and drive dangerous equipment on the road with them in the passenger seat.

again if i said anything at all that in any way suggested the driver was at fault you guys would have shot me for it.

 

[over9five]

If i made a post where I speculated that the driver was intoxicated you folks would have shot me for it, however the assumption the sup had the driver doing something unsafe goes unchallenged. Even though you would think the sup would have had the driver do everything safely if for no other reason then the fact the sup is riding with the guy.

Umm...

Nope, can't blame the sup. Even with a full pre-trip, I don't think you could have prevented an axle breaking later on.

Crap happens, let's just be thankful everyone's ok.

 

[hypocrisy]

You guys make assumptions that the sup rushed the driver when my experience is that very few drivers can do a complete and thorough pretrip and our audits show drivers routinely miss DOT required items.Even with a sup riding with the driver the sup generally does not have the driver call out everything his pretripping.

I find this especially humorous. Since the driver doesn't usually call out his pretrip during an audit (true), the auditor must be marking down the DOT items (Fed/State) we miss dailiy on our UPS pretrip because they are omitted:
1. Air leakage test
2. Rate of air pressure build-up
3. Air compressor cut-in and cut-out pressure
4. proper brake adjustment check (equal as practicable with respect to opposite wheels)
5. right turn signal (tractor,trailers)
6. running lights, turn signals (Dolly)

And in my area the Sup's like to skip the extra step for checking tractor brake lights by applying the hand valve the first time you get in the tractor which eliminates checking the rear running lights. The pushing and rushing is going on throughout the country so don't be surprised if there are more accidents like this in the future.

So much for UPS methods "meeting and exceeding" the DOT.
And don't even get me started about the post-trip....

 

[hypocrisy]

I`ve seen it all the time. Usually it`s the newer,naive driver who`s afraid to make waves/doesn`t know any better. Once a driver consistently,and rightfully, shows that they have the knowledge and experience to not be talked into or coerced into moving a bad piece of equipment then management moves on to the next new/naive driver. Then again you have the runner/gunners who`ll take career ending pieces of junk on the road for whatever reason they think is right.

I agree. It's sad that most drivers today don't have the cahones to stand up to management when they feel something isn't right or safe. It's a natural reaction to let fear for your job talk you into listening to that coercive supervisor, but these guys need to know that the Union and OSHA is there to back them up.

 

[tieguy]

More great examples of what I'm talking about. Anti Socks posters all the way.

 

[cachsux]

In defense of my driving supervisors, the situations discussed rarely come from them. Usually any problems are caused by the dispatch sups who only have the goal of getting the trailers out the gate or the return loads back at any cost. These are the folks who`ll meet you at the repair tunnels to let you know ,in their opinion, the one broken frame rail is ok because after all that why there`s two of them or pointing out that the trailer still has seven good tires or that lights aren`t needed because it`s day out. "It`s a hot load and we need to make the cutoff".
I still say I never said the sup was in the wrong. I will still say that,whomever was responsible, odds are it was a hurry up and go situation.

 

[dilligaf]

anti socks

Not anti management Tie and let's leave Socks out of this. I am, however, anti management running up my ass to make me move faster. I doubt that you would force one of your drivers out of the gate without so much as a proper pre-trip. You don't strike me as the type.

 

[dilligaf]

MY bet is on the hot load and the sup was up the drivers ass, pushing. If this is the case then he deserved the broken nose.

Absolutely. Our supervisors all have death wish's and routinely tell drivers to violate the law and drive dangerous equipment on the road with them in the passenger seat.

again if i said anything at all that in any way suggested the driver was at fault you guys would have shot me for it.

Touche`, you got me. I acknowledge that my wording would imply that I assumed the sup to be at fault for pushing. My mistake and I will endeavor, in the future, to not make that same mistake.

 

[tieguy]

Not anti management Tie and let's leave Socks out of this. I am, however, anti management running up my ass to make me move faster. I doubt that you would force one of your drivers out of the gate without so much as a proper pre-trip. You don't strike me as the type.

I can't leave Socks out of it, the type of statement you made is what socks got beat up and moderated for.