Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by InTheRed, Nov 19, 2005.
Anyone hear about this one?
The last sentence is the worst part.
How can you keep going after you just drove someone off the road?
thats horrible...the ultimate service failure...
It's conceivable the feeder driver didn't see, hear or feel the alleged impact of the accident, especially if the rear trailer was the one that struck the car.
For those who have never driven a large combination vehicle, the second and third trailer can "roadwalk", "wiggle" or whatever else you want to call it based on the condition of the equipment, the condition of the road and other variables.
I would be interested in knowing if the lady tried to whip a lane change around the feeder the same time the feeder made a lane change. We feeder drivers can't see through our trailers.
Do I feel bad about the loss of life? Of course I do. Do I think the company needs to crucify the feeder driver? No I don't, the guy was probably doing the best he could.
Not everything is the driver's fault.
I was about to post essentially the same thing. It's a shame everyone jumps to the worst conclusion first. From the article, it seems as though the accident happened at night. I can come up with dozens of scenarios where the feeder driver wasn't even aware (through no fault of his own) that he hit another vehicle.
At this point, my heartfelt condolences go out to all involved; the family of the deceased, and to the poor driver that has to live with the fact.
Well, the story quite plainly states he changed lanes into the rear of the car, so it wasn't a trailer contact.
I don't see how you could not notice you rear end a vehicle.
It really comes down to what physical proof or eye witness(es) they have that takes this "it appears" statement from hypothesis to actual facts.
Terrible in any case.
I understood it the same way OK2 did. I think it would be hard to hit the rear of her car and not notice it.
I don't feel sorry for the poor driver who left the scene of an accident that left a woman dead.
Accorrding to UPS it is.
i was hit in rear pulling a empty trailer by a taxi doing about 45 , i was sitting on freeway in traffic with trailer brake on , never felt a thing, i saw it coming. made a real mess of taxi, but trailer had only one scratch on it.
Well from the picture on the site referred to it shows a red Ford Escort. The feeders out of our hub are the newer Macks with the high longer hood. I would like to know from feeder drivers who drive the newer Macks if there is a blind spot at the front right side big enough to hide an Escort. Also, I think Thursday night it was raining in the NE. This would play a role with a darker car. Not to mention road conditions, and the ability to hear properly.
The Company will hang him out to dry, without any doubt in my mind. In their eyes, he as at fault period.
Before making any more harsh statements as to fault, someone should follow up on this story, but not from UPS management.
I don't think UPS management wrote the story for this news source. Most tractors have a blind spot in the front right area next to the passenger side wheel. However if it happened at night the driver should have seen the lights from the other vehicle.
The classic response from management.
followed by the classic response from hourly.
From the photos with the story it looks like it was daylight but it could also be great lighting too. Checkout the photos and see what you think. The shawdows and light spectrum look more yellowish whereas most rescue lighting uses Metal Halide which is in the white/blueish spectrum instead of the yellowish high pressure sodium. Just a thought.
This is tragic and you just want to think a UPSer wouldn't be that cold hearted and to think he would actually get away with it.
I could see how a car would hit the third or even second trailer and the driver not feel anything. But I would have a hard time understanding how you would not feel this accident. While my feeder time is very limited, I know when I hit a squirrel with my p1000, how could you not know you just hit a car?
As for the driver, for breaking the law there is no excuse. And if UPS comes down on him hard, IMHO he did wrong and he now needs to stand up to that.
By the same token, we had a feeder driver get charged with leaving the scene of a hit and run. Seems like, according to the older woman, the feeder driver was driving by on the interstate and the second trailer hit the woman knocking her down and breaking her hip. While there were no eye witnesses, there was a state trooper there that did not hear an impact. To make a long story short, they now think that the wind from the passing trailers caused the woman to lose her ballance and fall, causing the broken hip.
As most of you can imagine, getting hit by a feeder enough to knock you down would leave something else beside a broken hip.
After a year off road suspension, he is back in feeders. But we are still trying to get the 31 year safe driving restored.
Wk I think there is an assumption being made here that I am passing judgement simply because I am a management person. I did state that there is a blind spot on the tractor in the area discussed by some here and I also said that you should be able to see the headlights on a car in your blind spot at night. So an objective analysis of my answer would be that I gave one point in the drivers favor and one against. I have investigated way too many sideswipe type accidents to try to pass judgement on this based on what is posted in a news article. The sideswipe type accident is one of the most difficult to investigate. There are way too many variables one has to consider and its definitely not one we can pass judgement on without a thorough analysis of all the facts. I have seen many such accidents where the police would not pass judgement because they did not have enough facts to make a determination. To answer some of the points discussed here.
1) Your right even if I think the picture was taken in the dark I don;t know for sure that the accident occured at night. It does appear according to the article that the accident occured late in the day. Therefore it may have been dark.
Other factors to consider along with day or night are:
a)amount of lighting if dark - a passenger cars lights would be more visible if the road is poorly lit than if there is a lot of street lighting or road construction lighting.Weather at the time of the accident is also a factor and does affect visibility.
b) position of the car in relation to the tractor trailer. In this case it sounds like the car was somewhere around a tractors blind spot at the time of impact.
c) point of impact on both the car and the tractor. I have had cases where I have been able to prove by the impact that our drivers wheel was straight at the time of impact and that the other vehicle was at an angle pointed towards us thus determining who was actually changing lanes.
example I've had a few where the only contact with our vehicle was with the center hub on the passenger side of the tractor and the gouge in the other vehicle was much more prounounced intially and less as it went down the side of the vehicle. that coupled with scraped paint on the front side bumper area of our tractor and no scaped paint behind the passenger wheel can be an indication the other car was angled towards us at impact.
e)many sideswipes occur where a motorist tries to speed ahead of our tractor and pass it either coming off an on ramp or trying to exit. So the position of ramps in relation to the accident can be an important factor.
In addressing the feel factor let me tell you a story of something that happened to one of my drivers who is a good old country boy who does not get excited easily.
This driver was coming down a highway. He is in the middle lane of a three lane highway that is turning into two lanes. The right lane collapses into the center lane as he approaches this point of the highway. Driver says a small white sports car is barreling up the right lane. At one point he sees it and then he loses sight of it. The sports car had actually tried to dart ahead of him. He looks for it and can't see it anywhere. Says he starts feeling a little drag in his front end. No impact or anything. Says he leans forward and sees part of the white sports car tucked up under his right front end (passenger side) The guy had tried to cut in front of him and had actually gotten sucked up under his right front end. He says he calmly backs off on the gas( country boy demeanor) and after a while the car pops loose. Car spins hits the left guardrail. Car spins some more hits the right guard rail..car spins some more straightens out and takes off. He never saw the guy again. He pulled over , called us. We called the police. It was snowing that day and the police never came out so after a couple of hours we told him to keep driving. Very little damage to the tractor and he would never have known the car was there if he hadn't noticed a little drag when he was driving. That motorist was very lucky. If our driver panics and hits the brakes he the other motorist is a dead man.
So in this case there are not enough details to assess fault but it is very possible that the driver could have hit the left rear of the other car caused it to spin off the road and never knew he hit it. However unless the car merged onto the road at that exact moment its also honestly realistic that the driver could have known that car was somewhere in the area of his vehicle if he was doing a good job of checking his mirrors. It would also be fair for me to say that the driver could have seen the other vehicle spin off the road if he was constantly checking his mirrors. Two distinctly different issues here. Did he see or feel the other vehicle impact and could or did he see the other vehicle spin off the road. Those are some of the questions you have to objectively ask in a case like this and to simply assume the managment person is jumping to a management conclusion does not do the process justice. I have agonized over these decisions many times trying to come up with an answer that gives the driver every benifit of doubt without shortchanging the responsibility factor. We owe the driver and the general public a fair shake in this situation. This one will be analyzed to no end. We will probably settle out of court and pay the survivors millions just to keep the case out of court. There is no typical managment answer here. This case has cost a family their mother and we will end up paying heavily for it even if the driver was 100 percent right. All we have to do is step into the courtroom on this case and a jury will find us liable simply because they feel we can afford it financially.
I'd like to know where this accident occured on Route 3. There is a big merge/split on that road at the intersection of Route 3 and Route 46, and people are always trying to cut everyone off at that spot.
If I remember correctly the article said near the golf course. That is well east of the 3 & 46 split.
Bottom line is still that he left the accident scene. IF she cut him off, then there is no way he didnt know. Accidents will happen. Its how they are handled by both UPS and the driver that make a big difference.
I realize you have a big 'if' in your post, but something doesn't ring right with this whole accident. From the picture, the left rear of the car seems pretty much undamaged, at least from what can be seen. The left tail light seems to be undamaged. This doesn't seem to be consistent with the scenario presented by the police in the story, who were apparently relying on the statement of the dying woman.
You seem pretty quick to condemn the feeder driver when all the facts have yet to be determined. I can certainly at least imagine a scenario wher the driver wasn't even aware he struck another vehicle. The only other post I've seen from a full time feeder driver seems to bear this out. I wonder if we'll even hear how it turns out.
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