Ups Freight You Have A Choice!

[nospinzone]

Forming an independent association could create more problems than it solves. Look at what happened to the Northwest Flight Attendants.

Before 2003, NWA flight attendants were represented by the Teamsters and had the third best contract in the industry -- the only contracts that were better were also Teamster contracts. But the flight attendants thought they could do better. They said the Teamsters didn't understand them. And they decided to form their own association, the Professional Flight Attendants Association. It was a start-up single-employer association, just like APWA is proposing..

So how did the IPA manage to get their contract without Teamsters negotiating for them? From what I remember, they received a substantial increase in salary. Shall i source the article to jog your memory? Independent unions have the capability of applying pressure on management as evidenced by the IPA. Should the Blue side and Brown side join APWA, and in orchestration with the IPA, a strike at UPS would shut down every aspect of the operation. That is bargaining power.

Sure, there's little risk that UPS will go bankrupt in the next few years, but the fact remains that if APWA doesn't require employees to join or pay dues, how much money is it going to have to stand up to a global giant like UPS? .

Should APWA get voted in, people will recognize the need to join the union that represents them in their workplace. And if they dont, they will be shootin themselves in the foot, like you have pointed out. This is called taking personal responsibility for your personal interests. I believe when people consider the opportunities that this will offer, they will take action to support their union. Inaction has gotten us in the current situation.

APWAns would have you believe that UPS would take the money it is giving to the Teamsters pension fund and out of the goodness of its heart create its own, or give it to APWA. Why should they? Don't you think Eskew would rather pocket those millions or freeze the pension in a few years like IBM and so many others have done to make their companies "more competitive?"
What would APWA do then? Strike? And then what would all you APWAns live on? You have no strike fund, no paycheck and no pension.

When you consider how wasteful IBT is with our dues, and how much of it goes to services that we dont even receive (servicing the other 1 million people in the union), just how farther could we make those dues go if we only have to take care of 200,000 UPS union members? Look at how many IBT executives are gettin paid in excess of $100,000. Go to the US dept of Labor and pull up some of the financial reports. We are a cash cow for aspiring union bosses! Take those same dues and use them to fund a financially responsible union servicing a much smaller group of members, and the bottomline becomes positive in a hurry. Hence this is why APWA plans to cut dues in half within the first year in office. The strike fund will be sufficient relative to the number of employees that would be covered by the APWA. Feel free to ask Danny or Van for specifics on this. Parcelworkers - A NEW LOOK!? WHAT MAKES THIS UNION LOOK DIFFERENT''?
nospin

 

[18wheelbrownie]

www.tdu.org has this months article on saleries

 

[18wheelbrownie]

if you want to find out even more about your locals saleries checkout
http://www.unionfacts.com/

 

[nospinzone]

Teamsters for a Democratic Union has this months article on saleries

HO..........LY.........Sh#$!!.

Thats just unreal. $15 million a year that could have been saved, according to TDU's math. If thats how much is being wasted on the books, God knows whats happening under the table.

 

[tulsatime]

So how did the IPA manage to get their contract without Teamsters negotiating for them?

Persistance. It took the IPA nearly three years to get a contract. If I were making $175,000 I think I could hold out for three years without a raise too. But if I'm barely making ends meet raising a family and trying to save for retirement it might be a bit more uncomfortable. Especially since property taxes keep climbing where I live and we all know how much gas has climbed in the past few years.

And even with the nice bump in pay, the contract only passed by 41 votes. So obviously a lot of pilots weren't happy with the big picture -- which included a $200 per month increase in health insurance premiums.

 

[any122]

Persistance. It took the IPA nearly three years to get a contract. If I were making $175,000 I think I could hold out for three years without a raise too. But if I'm barely making ends meet raising a family and trying to save for retirement it might be a bit more uncomfortable. Especially since property taxes keep climbing where I live and we all know how much gas has climbed in the past few years.

And even with the nice bump in pay, the contract only passed by 41 votes. So obviously a lot of pilots weren't happy with the big picture -- which included a $200 per month increase in health insurance premiums.

You are compareing apples to oranges.If the APWA gets all of UPSFRIEGHT and part of UPS PACKAGE the bargaining power will be alot greater than the union you are refering to.The every day prices that you bring up are only going to continue to rise gas,taxes,and so on.The sooner the better of the two unions takes over the better for all UPS employees.You don't need the teamsters to get a good contract soon you will see.Everybody brings up how much money the teamsters have,It's not there money IT's the members.Join the APWA guess where your money will be.The APWA will take off well watch and see.

 

[DS]

APWAns would have you believe that UPS would take the money it is giving to the Teamsters pension fund and out of the goodness of its heart create its own, or give it to APWA. Why should they? Don't you think Eskew would rather pocket those millions or freeze the pension in a few years like IBM and so many others have done to make their companies "more competitive?"

.

This is a good point.What would UPS do if
the APWA was voted in? Have they talked
with ups about what might occur? Would they honor the current health and retirement plans?I`m not sure about the
legality of thier responsibilities or if ethics
would ensure that UPS would not take advantage of us as employees .
what is the APWA`s take on this?

 

[Equalizer]

From the title of the thread by any122

Ups Freight You Have A Choice!

I would agree with that statement and I am very thankful for it. The bridges that have been burned between Overnite and the IBT may be beyond repair.

Equalizer

 

[18wheelbrownie]

well i would like to know more about their pensions , i heard they have more than one!!!!!!!!

 

[mittam]

yeah like the vp who is retiring and he gets $1millon payout,free insurance for life and 4 pensions worht about $10,000 a month

 

[Uncle Rico]

As an outsider, By the time I retire, who knows where Social Security will be. Think I'm going to believe it will even be around? No way, I am on the tail end of baby boomers and they will suck it dry. That is quite simply why I invest in 401k, mutual funds, put 25 a month into 3 kids funds for college. I'm not going to be able to afford a state university and there will be no grants left for them when they get there.

You all better start thinking this unfortunate and sad, but possible truth. Either UPS will stop paying those pensions at a certain point, finish paying the grandfathered ones still hanging around and you are screwed and they can join the ranks of other gigantic corporations that basically say "hey thanks for working here 30 years but now you are on your own and a big friend you." Of course with a cheesy smile on their face.

Or, the fraternal brotherhood of teamsters will ultimately implode through the typical scandels of mismanaging money, pissing it away on the teamsters corporate greed and gluttony (which always made me laugh, teamster big wigs are as far from reality as the UPS big wigs but the brotherhood actually thinks they give a hoot about them in the rank and file1 ) or UPS will take its chances one day and say "hey IBT, here is a big friend you to you also and your union is busted. They would rathr take the hit on training 300,000 new employees and suffer some losses than to continually put up with the teamster bs.

If it aint broke, don't fix it...the current union is broken beyond repair in my opinion. APWA sounds to me like the magnifying glass will be on them for a long time even if voted in. Do you really think they would want to fail if they ousted the IBT? Think about it, they have egos also. Only speculation, but they would want to do things so right to, if nothing else, avoid the BS that would hit the fan at the very smallest sign of incompetance.

Good debate, hope you use common sense and information when making a decision about this and not propaganda, scare tactics, threats, and outright lies.

 

[nospinzone]

This is a good point.What would UPS do if
the APWA was voted in? Have they talked
with ups about what might occur? Would they honor the current health and retirement plans?I`m not sure about the
legality of thier responsibilities or if ethics
would ensure that UPS would not take advantage of us as employees .
what is the APWA`s take on this?

Double standard.....I addressed this concern in a previous post. Please see the link. Look for discussion on legality and precedence of STATUS QUO in post number 61.

 

[any122]

Double standard.....I addressed this concern in a previous post. Please see the link. Look for discussion on legality and precedence of STATUS QUO in post number 61.

As a current non union employee Im sure UPS would take care of the workers until all the details are worked out.UPS Is strick on policys but to here alot of you It all most sounds like we work for the worst company in the world.

 

[local776]

you the people bargain on your contract you dont have to give your pension away. if you go with the apwa you just did. learn alittle more about it. DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING OU HEAR

 

[local776]

i listen to both the teamsters an the apwa. The question is to ask is what are u getting from the apwa. they have no money and are listed as a non profit. so whos money are they going to use--yours.
central states have a different plan than the eastern states but u the folks need to be more informed on your benefits and go to the union meets. if APWA is so good why isnt the poeole in bron pounding the door down

 

[local776]

Sorry Fedex Was Short A Few Votes To Go Union. But They Need To Keep Trying

 

[nospinzone]

i listen to both the teamsters an the apwa. The question is to ask is what are u getting from the apwa. they have no money and are listed as a non profit. so whos money are they going to use--yours.
central states have a different plan than the eastern states but u the folks need to be more informed on your benefits and go to the union meets. if APWA is so good why isnt the poeole in bron pounding the door down

Local,
You're naivety is really showing through here. You're simply regurgitating the lines that your BA gave you. But just to bring to light the hypocrisy of your point, where does the IBT get its money? How does the IBT fund the pension plans? How does the IBT pay for the BLOATED SALARIES of their officers? How does the IBT pay for its party in Vegas they had a few weeks back? How does Hoffa and Keegel pay for the over-priced portraits of their over-sized egos?

WITH THE MEMBERSHIP DUES AND PENSION CONTRIBUTIONS THAT WERE EARNED WITH OUR HARD WORK

It's our money! Not the IBT's money!! And when the APWA is voted in, their budget will be supplemented the same way, by the membership dues and pension contributions. Fortunately for us, the oversight and transparency that they have written into the charter will prevent such wasteful management of our money. People have educated themselves on the better services and representation that the APWA can offer. And people who have chosen the APWA, believe Van and Danny because they have the numbers to back up their claims, and they dont mind telling the truth, regardless of whether it hurts or helps their position. Integrity----something that has been lacking in our union representation for a long time. And people recognize that. Thats why when you look at the poll on the APWA, 61% of those who voted find them more appealing than the Teamsters.

What say you?

 

[mittam]

Local,
You're naivety is really showing through here. You're simply regurgitating the lines that your BA gave you. But just to bring to light the hypocrisy of your point, where does the IBT get its money? How does the IBT fund the pension plans? How does the IBT pay for the BLOATED SALARIES of their officers? How does the IBT pay for its party in Vegas they had a few weeks back? How does Hoffa and Keegel pay for the over-priced portraits of their over-sized egos?

WITH THE MEMBERSHIP DUES AND PENSION CONTRIBUTIONS THAT WERE EARNED WITH OUR HARD WORK

It's our money! Not the IBT's money!! And when the APWA is voted in, their budget will be supplemented the same way, by the membership dues and pension contributions. Fortunately for us, the oversight and transparency that they have written into the charter will prevent such wasteful management of our money. People have educated themselves on the better services and representation that the APWA can offer. And people who have chosen the APWA, believe Van and Danny because they have the numbers to back up their claims, and they dont mind telling the truth, regardless of whether it hurts or helps their position. Integrity----something that has been lacking in our union representation for a long time. And people recognize that. Thats why when you look at the poll on the APWA, 61% of those who voted find them more appealing than the Teamsters.

What say you?

awesome post spin good going, hopefully local will take on open look and honestly see just what the APWA has to offer sounds to me like someone is influencing him and he is just a little naive on the details and history of the teamsters

 

[satellitedriver]

I for one, think that anyone who puts up with the job at UPS for the required length of time, regardless of what job you do should retire with the ability to not look for another job. Your pension should be enough to support the lifestyle you have been accustomed to. UPS paid in to your pension fund and it should be returned to you in abundance. UPS has no control over how your pension is disbursed to you. UPS only pays into the multi-employer pension fund and how they disburse it is up to them. The problem lies with all the other multi-employers who are no longer employers, but they are still drawing from your money that UPS paid in for you. This is what happens in Communist countries.

Your pension should only be a portion of your retirement plans. There are many options out there to pay for your retirement. You can invest in just about anything, what it takes is self discipline to do it. Payroll deductions are the easiest way, because once you start it, you don't have to worry about writing a check. It does not take a lot to do it either. You can go $5 per paycheck to get started and over time, that adds up. The more you set aside now, the better you will have it when you retire.

As for the IBT, I have always said that there was a time in the past where the IBT was a good thing. There was a time when coming to work put your life at risk, not just at UPS, but pretty much any industry. I stand fast in my belief that the time has passed. Not for all unions, but it appears that the IBT is falling apart and that even their own members don't trust them either. Don't believe me, read some of the posts here. With all of the defunct companies out there who are taking your pension from you, I for one would be fired up and looking for an alternative. I know it is a brotherhood, but there comes a time when the brother needs to either get his act together, or get out of the house. To me, I see that it is that time.
If there is an alternative, it may be worth exploring. I am not trying to tell anyone what to do, just an observation and a little advice.

I have seen other posts that refer to "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't." If you are referring to the IBT as the devil, (figuratively of course), then perhaps maybe you should look into the new devil and see what is being offered. After all, when you retire and your pension fund is bankrupt, do you think all the other retirees who have taken your pension in the past are going to come bail you out. No they won't, they will thank you for paying for their retirement, and keep laughing. Who will bail you out then. The government won't, their too busy spending your tax dollars on $90 hammers, and fighting to keep our oil in the ground to protect a peice of land that few people will ever see. No, I submit that the only entity that will come to your aid is the very company that many people hate to work for, BIG BROWN, and the only thing that will be said then is "they should have done something sooner." You have the opportunity to make the change now, but the only thing I see is that many people are too scared to commit to making a change.

I left the military after 10 years of service, empty handed, because I was displeased with the way my career path was going. I squandered the $1300 per month pay and did not save a thing. Plus, I was and still am married with one child, now 3 children. I put myself through college, no earn and learn. I worked p/t at UPS, and my wife raised our child. No I did not have another job either and no other income. We struggled for 3 years to get it done, but it has paid off in the long run. We do not live in a $250,000 house, though we could, we are happy living in a small single story home in the country with 3 acres of land. We did not like living the way we were, but we do not feel the need to show off now. We are happy and that is what counts. My point is change is not a bad thing. Poor planning and not reading the signs are bad things. The signs are all over the place about pension funds (not just the IBT, all of them), the bad thing is not everyone is paying attention to the signs because they are afraid of change.

Either it gets fixed now or pay for it later, it is that simple.

Well thought out post.Take good care of your family. They have a father they can lookup to.I hope you get to bounce your great grand children on your knees.

 

[Braveheart]

I sure hope everybody voted in the Teamster election.