Johney
Well-Known Member
No.
UPS is telling us that we can't discuss the contract on company time
- Thread starter UPS Preloader
- Start date
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
UPS was never a "nice" place to work.
mvaughnm86
Member
friend* what ya heard! You have the law of the land on your side, the constitution! Ever hear of the first amendment "freedom of speech"? That supersedes any stupid rule the company may have.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Go ahead---wait until your supervisor is done giving the PCM and then start discussing the contract----let us know how that works out for you.
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mvaughnm86
Member
worked out fine. he actually joined in on the conversation.
Bagels
Family Leave Fridays!!!
"Freedom of speech" does not exist in private forums.
anonymous4
Well-Known Member
You've never worked PT, if they started cracking down on people "talking" about things they don't like there would be no one left. This past week we have hijacked the worthless PCM with contract talk. Our supervisors stand there and ask questions themselves. Maybe you elite money makers are held to a higher standard but under no situation would an intelligent supervisor start disciplining his/her workers for talking about union issues. $11/hour, working out for 5 hours straight in 90 degree weather, so short-staffed one person leaving could cause chaos in an entire area. Your delusions of reality are endless.
Bagels
Family Leave Fridays!!!
He's not delusional. We've been warned not to discuss the contract on company time. Considering that last year we had two employees fired for whining to each other (on the clock, obviously) about their lack of hours*, I'm certain UPS is serious.
*They were offered, and accepted, their jobs back with reduction to one-week suspension. Our BA said their conduct was too inappropriate to fight for back pay / dismissal of suspension.
anonymous4
Well-Known Member
Neither of you are dealing in absolutes. We have a poor union presence during our sort yet had people passing out TDU papers. It is clear to me people are spreading the word. Is it enough? Probably not. Working in different areas, there are only a few places I'd feel at odds talking about union issues openly. Meaning, the screwed up comradery we share with management would prevent them from taking action on you even if they didn't like what was taking place.
Maybe it's because almost every supervisor here does union work all shift. But isn't it similar across the country (shift dependent)?
Maybe it's because almost every supervisor here does union work all shift. But isn't it similar across the country (shift dependent)?
Bagels
Family Leave Fridays!!!
I don't disagree that we're referring to "absolutes." However, your building is likely an exception and not the rule. Regardless, UPS reserves the right to seek corrective action toward employees caught discussing stuff like this on the clock. I'd hate to be the one caught while a high-ranking UPS manager was touring my facility.
anonymous4
Well-Known Member
Not everyone is concerned about unlikely scenarios. Or maybe they are and that's one reason we're in this position. The assumption that anyone you see besides a once in a blue moon walk-through will fire or even blink an eye at two people working, talking about union issues they don't know or care about is not an exception and probably the rule. I would argue it would be easy to spot the supervisors who would create a problem from a mile away. Surely you have heard some of the things I have while loading/unloading/sorting? With a pt supervisor or two inside/around the truck, perhaps partaking in the conversation.
UpstateNYUPSer is partially out-of-touch. But so am I.
UpstateNYUPSer is partially out-of-touch. But so am I.
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Bagels
Family Leave Fridays!!!
Liquid Swords,
The OP expressed that he's been hearing/reading that UPS is reprimanding individuals discussing the contract on company time, which lead to a slew of responses that UPS has no right to do so. Even after it was pointed out that UPS has every right to censor your speech while you're representing the company, another poster said he'd continue to do it anyway - to which UpstateNYUpser more-or-less replied 'do so and you'll be looking for another job.' You're asserting that Upstate's out of touch because it's perfectly acceptable behavior at your facility. While it may be acceptable at your facility, Upstate is indeed correct that in most places, it's terminable behavior.
And FWIW, I've worked with several PTers who've been reprimanded for running their mouths within earshot of a high-level UPS manager. Sometimes they didn't know who that person was, sometimes they didn't think that person could hear them... but usually, it's 'we say ****** all time around here and nobody cares - why are you picking on me now?' They still get a pink slip, and at the scheduled hearing they find out that the union is powerless to help them beyond getting their job back without back pay & with an apology.
The OP expressed that he's been hearing/reading that UPS is reprimanding individuals discussing the contract on company time, which lead to a slew of responses that UPS has no right to do so. Even after it was pointed out that UPS has every right to censor your speech while you're representing the company, another poster said he'd continue to do it anyway - to which UpstateNYUpser more-or-less replied 'do so and you'll be looking for another job.' You're asserting that Upstate's out of touch because it's perfectly acceptable behavior at your facility. While it may be acceptable at your facility, Upstate is indeed correct that in most places, it's terminable behavior.
And FWIW, I've worked with several PTers who've been reprimanded for running their mouths within earshot of a high-level UPS manager. Sometimes they didn't know who that person was, sometimes they didn't think that person could hear them... but usually, it's 'we say ****** all time around here and nobody cares - why are you picking on me now?' They still get a pink slip, and at the scheduled hearing they find out that the union is powerless to help them beyond getting their job back without back pay & with an apology.
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Jackburton
Gone Fish'n
Telling someone to go to Brown Cafe to view the TA and engage in the discussion would take 5 seconds. If they're intrersted in hearing about the changes perhaps they could attend the meeting or come here as you told them. If they don't want to do that, then I doubt you'll get more than a glazed eye look when you start comparing insurance plans to a 19yr old preloader.
anonymous4
Well-Known Member
This is an absurd exchange. I have never seen a single PT employee catch flack for words that came out of their mouth and there are people who are highly offensive. In my experience the world of UPS is in the moment. Not to say it's out of control, but the environment is lightly censored inside. Our center manager is verbally offensive to supervisors. A gag order on union employees is not something I see being effectively enforced. I can get in trouble for thousands of things, having a contract chat with a co-worker is at the bottom of the worry list. How loud do you people talk?
I can't help but think some of your experiences are cases of sub-par workers or people whom have a target on the back for whatever other behavior they dabble in.
Bagels
Family Leave Fridays!!!
Article 21 enables you to discuss the contract on company property before/after work or while on break, but it does not give you the right to do so on company time.
What matters is that in hundreds of buildings nationwide, UPS has asked its workforce not to discuss the pending contract while representing the company (e.g. on the clock) - and UPS is doing so within its rights. Failure to comply will likely lead many into several unscheduled weeks off. Just feel fortunate that this isn't happening within your building. And I'd be willing to bet that every single day several PTers from around the country are walked out for something that came out of their mouths... many without targets on their backs... UPS's anti-harassment policy is very liberal in the sense that the first time somebody complains about your every day behavior, you're a goner.
hyena
Well-Known Member
Bagels
Family Leave Fridays!!!
Article 21 guarantees (among other things) discrimination because of union membership or activities. Passing out flyers encouraging PTers (in a RTW state) to join the union, or passing out Teamster-issued flyers to union members encouraging a "YES" vote are example of union actives. But would what happen if you were to do so on the clock? Would Article 21 protect you, even though it doesn't mention 'provided the employee does not do so while on the clock.'
As with any employer, UPS has a legal right to censor an employee actively representing the company (e.g. somebody on company time); a CBA cannot supersede UPS's legal right.
Honestly, it should be common sense.
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