UPS' Last Best and Final Offer July 22 1997

[brownIEman]

-AND- 15 year old memories mean nothing this time around, since the leadership on both sides has changed. Ron Carey is long gone, and I can't even remember who the CEO was.

Not to mention the totally different economy, and all the other changes that have taken place since then.

We live in interesting times....

James Kelly

 

[brownmonster]

The last, best and final offer started being written right around the time a few years before when the company started offering shares of stock to the hourlies. It was all part of the grand plan. Offer shares to hourlies to suck them into believing they were owners, offer a union busting crappy contract with profit sharing bonuses, and then go public.

 

[brownIEman]

The last, best and final offer started being written right around the time a few years before when the company started offering shares of stock to the hourlies. It was all part of the grand plan. Offer shares to hourlies to suck them into believing they were owners, offer a union busting crappy contract with profit sharing bonuses, and then go public.

Makes me wonder, anyone have the profit sharing proposal numbers the company offered back then? If you ran those formulas against the BILLIONS UPS has been making over the last 15 years, what would it come out to? Just curious...

 

[moreluck]

Makes me wonder, anyone have the profit sharing proposal numbers the company offered back then? If you ran those formulas against the BILLIONS UPS has been making over the last 15 years, what would it come out to? Just curious...

Under "UPS Discussions" . in the thread titled, "Memories Form the 97 Strinke". Post 137....Orangeputeh says he save all the papers from the offer.

 

[104Feeder]

It was offered last day of REGULAR negotiations prior to the expiration of the prior contract as take it or leave it. The Teamsters left it. Then both sides negotiated over the weekend of August 2-3rd with the involvement of the national mediators. At the end of that session, UPS had moved significantly from the terms of this last best final, and asked for a further extension to continue negotiating. The teamsters refused and left the negotiating table on Sunday night, the Strike began at midnight monday morning. That is also fact, not my opinion.

I'm sorry but as you've said before you were non-management, non-union at that time (probably a specialist) so I do not believe you have any real facts to offer other than Company propaganda or news reports. I was much closer to the negotiations than that. Whomever is feeding you that misinformation doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

[brownIEman]

I'm sorry but as you've said before you were non-management, non-union at that time (probably a specialist) so I do not believe you have any real facts to offer other than Company propaganda or news reports. I was much closer to the negotiations than that. Whomever is feeding you that misinformation doesn't know what they are talking about.

OK, I can accept that possibility. You were able to come up with and share the company's comprehensive offer from July 22nd. What about the Unions comprehensive offer? Do you have a comprehensive, Article by Article proposal made by the Teamsters prior to the strike taking effect that you could share? Did they have one? If not, why not?

 

[brownmonster]

Makes me wonder, anyone have the profit sharing proposal numbers the company offered back then? If you ran those formulas against the BILLIONS UPS has been making over the last 15 years, what would it come out to? Just curious...

Everything in the company proposal as far as pension and profit sharing looked good. The problem is that would have been our last union contract. After that, it would all slowly erode, kind of like all of mgmnts perks the last several years.

 

[brownIEman]

Everything in the company proposal as far as pension and profit sharing looked good. The problem is that would have been our last union contract. After that, it would all slowly erode, kind of like all of mgmnts perks the last several years.

I get all that. I was just curious about the calculations of the bonus to compare to UPS' reported profits over the past 15 years. I am sure the Union had they any interest, could have gotten the company to go for the bonuses while removing that 'we will not use non-union folks to do the work except when it is convenient' BS sentence.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Do you have a comprehensive, Article by Article proposal made by the Teamsters.. Did they have one?

Let me try and help you a little bit.

UPS Contract Proposals & Timeline | Teamsters for a Democratic Union

Do a little internet research on collective bargaining and contract negotiation.



-Bug-


*tdu does serve somewhat of a purpose*

 

[brownIEman]

Let me try and help you a little bit.

UPS Contract Proposals & Timeline | Teamsters for a Democratic Union

Do a little internet research on collective bargaining and contract negotiation.



-Bug-


*tdu does serve somewhat of a purpose*

From TDU's timeline for the upcoming negotiations :
"Sept. 27
National Negotiations Open: Contract talks begin. UPS and the International Union exchange bargaining proposals"

What I am asking is did this happen in 1997? We have UPS' proposals typed here in this thread. Did the IBT back then have a comprehensive set of proposals prior to the strike? Does anyone have it?

 

[Jones]

From TDU's timeline for the upcoming negotiations :
"Sept. 27
National Negotiations Open: Contract talks begin. UPS and the International Union exchange bargaining proposals"

What I am asking is did this happen in 1997? We have UPS' proposals typed here in this thread. Did the IBT back then have a comprehensive set of proposals prior to the strike? Does anyone have it?

Yes, their proposals were essentially the contract that ended up being signed to end the strike. If you have an old contract book laying around you can read them, it might even still be online somewhere.

 

[brownIEman]

Yes, their proposals were essentially the contract that ended up being signed to end the strike. If you have an old contract book laying around you can read them, it might even still be online somewhere.

There is nothing in a contract book that would suggest they proposed all of that BEFORE the strike was called.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Does anyone have a copy of the Unions comprehensive contract proposal from July 22nd or before?

Yes

Your leadership never produced a comprehensive counter offer.

Are you sure about that ?

Did they have one?

Yes

That is how you break unions.

Really....

Do you have a comprehensive, Article by Article proposal made by the Teamsters.

Yes.... Again

There is nothing in a contract book that would suggest they proposed all of that BEFORE the strike was called.

But, you don't really know....



-Bug-

 

[brownIEman]

Do you by chance have a link to a comprehensive proposal made by the teamsters PRIOR to the strike being called?

But, you don't really know....

Correct. Which would be why I am asking.

Really....

Well, yes. That is how Ronnie did it. That is how I would do it if I had to.

If I really wanted to bust a union, I can tell you for sure how I would NOT do it. I would not force them out on strike with unreasonable demands, cost myself hundreds of millions in lost revenue, and then fold like a house of cards to all their demands. If I saw someone behaving in that manner, I am not sure what I would think the fool was trying to achieve, but I would certainly need to be pretty dense to think he was trying to bust a union.

How would you do it?

 

[brownIEman]

To recognize a proposal such as UPS's in 1997 would be counter-intuitive. It was a fairy-tale, hoping for a "bite" or a "blink".

I agree. My contention is that the bite, or blink it was really hoping for was some sort of comprehensive counter proposal. It never got one, I believe, because Carry wanted a strike for many reasons which had little to do with UPSers

 

[Article 3]

Fast forward six years.
We you better off in 2012's CBA or 2013-2018's?
You decide.

 

[104Feeder]

2013-2018. Our move to our own Local 177 & WCT Healthcare plan is doing so well we were able to put $.70 to Pension of our $1 allocated to HW&P, an unprecedented increase.