UPS RLA Facts

[MrFedEx]

Go to ups.com/rlafacts and consider the UPS take on the special treatment FedEx receives. It's too long to insert here, but it's very well done and full of facts Fred would rather not have employees or the general public know.

Hey quadro, place your tinfoil hat atop your pointy head and try to spin this one, OK? Of course, it's pro-UPS (what would you expect?), but the facts don't lie... Fred does.

 

[Cactus]

but the facts don't lie... Fred does.

And he's done a great job at insulting the intelligence of America too.

 

[MrFedEx]

And he's done a great job at insulting the intelligence of America too.

My opinion is that UPS gives a calm, rational explanation about the situation. It's interesting how UPS refused to play dirty politics the way Smith did. I strongly suspect they wish now that they had stooped to his level and beaten him while they could. When you face-off with a massive sewer rat, you have to go down the manhole to get to him. UPS wouldn't do it.

Also, watch the numbers in the FedEx Forum whenever anyone posts key words that get their attention in Memphis. It always at least doubles whenever you enter a title that says something like "RLA". I'm guessing that some dweeb in a MEM cubicle is analyzing what we've read right now to assess it's "threat" level to Fred's farce.

 

[quadro]

Go to ups.com/rlafacts and consider the UPS take on the special treatment FedEx receives. It's too long to insert here, but it's very well done and full of facts Fred would rather not have employees or the general public know.

Hey quadro, place your tinfoil hat atop your pointy head and try to spin this one, OK? Of course, it's pro-UPS (what would you expect?), but the facts don't lie... Fred does.

You do realize that the tinfoil hat thing was a joke?

I don't think there's anything in there that is a big secret. It is funny though how you take what UPS says as gospel but discount everything FedEx says. UPS is putting its spin on things and if I was in there shoes I would too. They've got nothing to lose and everything to gain. I like how they say FedEx is the only company in the express delivery industry with its drivers covered under the RLA. This would be in comparison to who? All those other express delivery companies that compete with FedEx?

UPS has tried and failed to get themselves covered under the RLA and that was mostly due to their own miscalculation. Facts don't lie but incomplete facts paint an incomplete picture.

 

[vantexan]

UPS has tried and failed to get themselves covered under the RLA and that was mostly due to their own miscalculation. Facts don't lie but incomplete facts paint an incomplete picture.

Yes, but can someone please explain why our pilots are allowed to unionize and we who don't go near an aircraft aren't?

 

[quadro]

Yes, but can someone please explain why our pilots are allowed to unionize and we who don't go near an aircraft aren't?

No one can explain that because it's not true. I know MFE is going to probably say it is effectively true but given the recent change with the RLA, it simply isn't as difficult as it was this time last year.

 

[vantexan]

No one can explain that because it's not true. I know MFE is going to probably say it is effectively true but given the recent change with the RLA, it simply isn't as difficult as it was this time last year.

Again, why are our pilots treated as a separate entity and allowed to unionize BEFORE the RLA rules change? Why aren't we couriers classified under the NLRA when we don't go near anything bigger than a feeder plane?

 

[quadro]

Again, why are our pilots treated as a separate entity and allowed to unionize BEFORE the RLA rules change? Why aren't we couriers classified under the NLRA when we don't go near anything bigger than a feeder plane?

Because the pilots had a national vote. Couriers could have done the same thing. It has nothing to do with being allowed or not being allowed.

 

[vantexan]

Because the pilots had a national vote. Couriers could have done the same thing. It has nothing to do with being allowed or not being allowed.

That's nice, they're employees like we are, why are they separated out from the rest of us? A vote with EVERYONE participating should mean just that. Let's face it, couriers have no political clout. But I think we should take your advice and have a vote under the new rules.

 

[LTFedExer]

Because the pilots had a national vote. Couriers could have done the same thing. It has nothing to do with being allowed or not being allowed.

True. And it can still be done. Ask MFE why he keeps side-stepping this point.

 

[bbsam]

True. And it can still be done. Ask MFE why he keeps side-stepping this point.

He doesn't side-step the point, he just insists that somebody else (IBT) should be leading the charge.

 

[MrFedEx]

He doesn't side-step the point, he just insists that somebody else (IBT) should be leading the charge.

That's right. Without some sort of effective national means of organization, there won't be a union. I know my station would be at least 80% in favor, but there's nothing I can do in other areas. Fred knows this, and isn't that worried because the IBT has done zero so far to create a national campaign. They gambled on doing it politically...and lost.

 

[MrFedEx]

Yes, but can someone please explain why our pilots are allowed to unionize and we who don't go near an aircraft aren't?

The pilots are such a small workgroup, that it wasn't a problem for them to unionize. FedEx pilots have actually had 2 unions, the first being an in-house union that wasn't strong enough to stand-up to Smith's games. The second one (ALPA) has enabled our pilots to negotiate the highest payscale in the industry, along with a generous retirement plan, which isn't the PPP. The pilots saw Smith for what he was (an opportunist), and had enough sense to protect themselves from ridiculous scheduling and a "B" scale, among other issues.

Pilots used to have to drive crew vans to their hotels, which were essentially old courier vans with the logos removed and a couple of bench seats installed. Now, they are chauffered to and from the airport, usually in a limo, but sometimes in a town car or shuttle van from the hotel. They're treated like royalty, and Fred subsidized their pay and benefits by taking yours away or reducing them. That's why we could never expect pilot support if we decided to go union. They've already got it made, so why rock the boat?

In my district, there are only 2 stations where the employees ever see an airplane, and that's a supplemental, flown by a non-FedEx contract pilot. Both of those stations also get CTV's, and the remaining stations are all pure CTV. The argument that we're an "airline' and that UPS isn't is very weak. The population of employees who work directly with aircraft is miniscule, and as Van pointed out, most employees never go anywhere near an aircraft, just like UPS. In my district, UPS actually has more linehaul aircraft landing every day than Fedex, and many more feeder flights. I suspect that's the case in many locations, but they aren't an airline and we are. Strange reasoning, eh?

The only real difference is that we mix less freight in our trucks. We have FO drivers that do pure air, and UPS has equivalent drivers doing their version of FO. They have air Feeder (CTV) drivers, and air shuttle drivers, and ramp personnel too. But they do mix freight on the package cars, yet their air product has the same deadlines as we do, so how does that even matter? Oh, and much of the P2, ES, and SO we deliver has been trucked, and never seen the inside of an airplane...just like UPS.

 

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

And still you have to wonder...how can anyone not get it? My 9 year old daughter figured this out on the first try..and she is 9 (granted is in gifted and talented classes but I will step off the Daddy soapbox..)!

All we need is the IBT to help guide us, not step in and do all the work, we can't expect that. I am tired of being afraid about being able to retire, and I'm only 37.

 

[bbsam]

37? Don't worry. Retirement in this country isn't for our generation. We will all be worked to death. Problem solved.

 

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

Of that I am certain my friend. Sadly so, but certain.

 

[vantexan]

In the late 80's pilots were making $150k and flight engineers $110k. I jumpseated many times and the pilots back then had catered food on the plane. Recently worked out of a ramp location and pilots were pupped by hotel courtesy vans. They also back in the 80's could only fly so many days a month per FAA rules. They've always had it good. My point is if it's so important that airlines not be disrupted then why were our pilots allowed to be treated separately from the rest of us? Unionize by job category? But it's all academic. For the one who said we shouldn't rely on the Teamster for organizing, well, what are you doing? Sticking your neck out? If non-FedEx people aren't out handing out info and holding meetings it'll never get off the ground. I've seen alot of talk over the years and nothing ever happens. But at least I know of a great beach town where I can get by on $500 a month. Why anyone would enslave themselves to a mortgage, etc when you know your employer will just take and take is beyond me. And while the U.S. is expensive, we've got it much better than most of the world. Try supporting a family on less than $500 a month, even less than $300. It's typical in the Philippines to work 12+ hrs a day, every day for less than $200 a month. A job at the mall is considered a great job but usually requires 10 hrs a day, 6 days a week and a college degree. For $200 to $300 a month. And yet there are at least a couple of Filipino billionaires. Judging by what's going on at Ground this is the future of the U.S. although maybe not that extreme. But low pay and few benefits seem likely due to little upside in growth potential. Maybe if we switch over to electric cars, etc and build them all here we may turn things around. But where people are getting wealthy is in China, India, and Brazil. Average people can nicely benefit from all the economic activity. Here in the States 10's of thousands of factories have been closed. Without that base you'll have a much more limited middle class and already companies have restructured or are in the process of doing so to face these realities. And it's expected that boom-bust business cycles will become more pronounced so alot of uncertainty ahead.

 

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

Van, the only plausible reason I can think of is this...being a pilot is a highly specialized line of work. They can't just go to Home Depot and get some day laborer to do it. Couriers on the other hand really only need a driver's license, and not necessarily one from that state, and the ability to, at the very least follow a map.

That's why they had Freddo by the short and scruffy's when they threatened to go on strike, and I was on the ramp as a load captain at the time so I talked to those guys on a daily basis, even to the point of encouraging them to strike..lol

 

[MrFedEx]

Van, the only plausible reason I can think of is this...being a pilot is a highly specialized line of work. They can't just go to Home Depot and get some day laborer to do it. Couriers on the other hand really only need a driver's license, and not necessarily one from that state, and the ability to, at the very least follow a map.

That's why they had Freddo by the short and scruffy's when they threatened to go on strike, and I was on the ramp as a load captain at the time so I talked to those guys on a daily basis, even to the point of encouraging them to strike..lol

While it's true that pilots have a much higher skill and training level than couriers, Fred also threatened to can them if they went union. They did, and he didn't, which says a lot. There's no way FedEx could cover for us if we all decided to do a walkout tomorrow. It would take awhile to get people to cover, and a lot longer to develop any level of efficiency and productivity. Just like UPS, FedEx depends on a high level of productivity that drives profits. It isn't profitable to have a bunch of off-the-street people who can maybe do 5-7 stops per hour, and shippers won't pay for crap service...they'll go elsewhere.

Our real problem is a fear of stepping-up or forward to bring the union issue out into the open. We all know what happens to pro-union employees, and even if it's against the law to target union organizers, FedEx has never had much problem eliminating them. As "at-will" employees, we can be terminated pretty much for anything at any time. We don't have an army of lawyers or virtually unlimited resources like Fred does. He is a formidable enemy, and it's impossible for an individual or small group of individuals to prevail. That's why we need the Teamsters.

The IBT isn't perfect by any means, but if they give us access to lawyers who are experts in labor law, and a national unified campaign, we could beat Smith, especially now that the RLA voting regs have been liberalized. Unfortunately, at least where I live, the Teamsters are nowhere in sight. Even if they cannot come on company property, they could certainly stand in the street after the AM sort goes down and handout cards and info to couriers as they head on the road. Despite those who say that "we don't want a union", the evidence is mounting that we DO. The mid-year Survey was one tipoff, as were the abysmal scores on the SFA on pay and benefit issues. Other key SFA categories that measure job satisfaction were also down despite FedEx attempts to spin the results in a positive way.

The longer we do nothing, the worse things get, and Fred has carte' blanche to bend us over as he pleases.

 

[LTFedExer]

Despite those who say that "we don't want a union", the evidence is mounting that we DO. The mid-year Survey was one tipoff, as were the abysmal scores on the SFA on pay and benefit issues. Other key SFA categories that measure job satisfaction were also down despite FedEx attempts to spin the results in a positive way.

Wrong. Those categories have always been low. No matter how much you get paid, you would always hit that category hard. You say we don't make a fair wage, but UPS does. I'll wager that most UPS drivers will say they don't make a fair wage. The only other category I recall getting hit hard (which always does anyway) is the one that asks if rules hinder the way you do your job (I forgot the exact wording).