UPS, Without the Pay

[MrFedEx]

Sooooo Fred's spending $25 million to keep people unhappy? That makes a lot of sense. Your argument can easily support the notion that people are happy. Fred's spending the money to keep the unions from screwing things up and making people unhappy.

Not saying that is the case, but your argument is more like a wet paper bag than FedEx2000's.

Right. Mr. Cheap is going to spend $25 million (or more) he doesn't have to? if we were as happy as you say, there would be no need for him to spend a penny. After all, how can you have a union when nobody wants one? Your "logic" is silly.

 

[MrFedEx]

Do you sit at home and think of things to post on here? If I took all the managers (8) and senior managers (5) I have worked under, put together everything they know and people they have spoken to.......you have talked to and 'know' more then they have combined.

Dude, I know you're not a fan...that's obvious. But at least come-up with something intelligent, OK?

 

[vantexan]

Sooooo Fred's spending $25 million to keep people unhappy? That makes a lot of sense. Your argument can easily support the notion that people are happy. Fred's spending the money to keep the unions from screwing things up and making people unhappy.

Not saying that is the case, but your argument is more like a wet paper bag than FedEx2000's.

If you are going to make an argument that the majority of employees are happy, keep in mind that you are saying that the majority are happy in spite of:

1. The traditional pension was replaced with a cash balance plan that will pay less than half of the traditional plan.

2. Pay progression has been slowed to a trickle.

3. Health care is no longer company paid for the
employee.

4. Health care costs are increasing every year.

5. Even our best health care plan doesn't provide 100% coverage, which could cause us to incur huge expenses.

6. Apparently we can't count on a full raise every year, or even a raise at all.

7. There's a two-tiered system where even employees wth 10+ years have to work side by side with employees who make much more simply because they got here first, and the less paid employees just have to accept they'll never do as well.

8. And probably a few more things could be brought up...

So if the majority are happy considering all the above, then let's have a vote to settle it and never bring it up again!

 

[MrFedEx]

If you are going to make an argument that the majority of employees are happy, keep in mind that you are saying that the majority are happy in spite of:

1. The traditional pension was replaced with a cash balance plan that will pay less than half of the traditional plan.

2. Pay progression has been slowed to a trickle.

3. Health care is no longer company paid for the
employee.

4. Health care costs are increasing every year.

5. Even our best health care plan doesn't provide 100% coverage, which could cause us to incur huge expenses.

6. Apparently we can't count on a full raise every year, or even a raise at all.

7. There's a two-tiered system where even employees wth 10+ years have to work side by side with employees who make much more simply because they got here first, and the less paid employees just have to accept they'll never do as well.

8. And probably a few more things could be brought up...

So if the majority are happy considering all the above, then let's have a vote to settle it and never bring it up again!

Yep. If we are truly one big happy purple family, let's just get the vote out of the way. Oh...we can't do that, can we? Wonder why that is? But, since everyone but me is effing orgasmic about FedEx, poor old Fred should have saved the $25m he's spent so far. Then he can continue to do all of the things (and more) you just listed to us because it's only myself and a tiny number of other malcontents that want some changes.

Here's a suggestion. Why don't quadro and LTFedExer get together and go on IamFedEx.com and tell everyone all the reasons they should be "happy" along with the rest of the cheerleaders who are too stupid to realize they are Fred's "tools". Good luck with that.

 

[Mr Fedex]

You can polish a turd all you want but it will still be *****.

 

[vantexan]

You can polish a turd all you want but it will still be *****.

You would know.

 

[MrFedEx]

You can polish a turd all you want but it will still be *****.

Fred's been polishing it for about 20 years now, so that turd is about worn down to a nub.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

You can polish a turd all you want but it will still be *****.

May I suggest you go to Teamsternet or another forum? It is obvious you are unable to interact in a mature manner here.

 

[FedEx2000]

If the vast majority of FedEx employees are so freaking happy, then why is Fred S spending $25 million to fight unionization? Isn't that a waste of money, since nobody wants any changes because everything is so wonderful? Your argument is like a wet paper bag. It's obvious that many employees are extremely unhappy. Get a clue.

If the vast majority of employees are so unhappy, why aren't they on here complaining about it like you? Everyone knows that unhappy people/customers are ten times more likely to complain, yet 99.9% of the negative posts on here are from you and you alone. What does "many" equate to from your scientific poll? Why was my SFA over 90, as well as my station's? If things are so bad, hit me on it....what are people afraid of? Contrary to your belief, I cannot see who scores what on the SFA......all I can see is who takes it. I'm sure someone in MEM can, but it gets no where near the local level. Oh that's right, you said it was a big conspiracy and the company is full of it when they said that SFA was up this year. Newsflash, your score on the SFA carries no more weight than anyone else, so despite the "Strongly Disagree" you answered on every question it all averages out. Actually, you probably refuse to take b/c you are paranoid that your mgr will find out that you dogged him.....even though it sounds as if he/she deserves it.

I have more of clue than you will ever know. It's hilarious to get on here and see all the things that you try to get people fired up over and speculate about.....knowing that 95% of it is complete BS.

 

[MrFedEx]

If the vast majority of employees are so unhappy, why aren't they on here complaining about it like you? Everyone knows that unhappy people/customers are ten times more likely to complain, yet 99.9% of the negative posts on here are from you and you alone. What does "many" equate to from your scientific poll? Why was my SFA over 90, as well as my station's? If things are so bad, hit me on it....what are people afraid of? Contrary to your belief, I cannot see who scores what on the SFA......all I can see is who takes it. I'm sure someone in MEM can, but it gets no where near the local level. Oh that's right, you said it was a big conspiracy and the company is full of it when they said that SFA was up this year. Newsflash, your score on the SFA carries no more weight than anyone else, so despite the "Strongly Disagree" you answered on every question it all averages out. Actually, you probably refuse to take b/c you are paranoid that your mgr will find out that you dogged him.....even though it sounds as if he/she deserves it.




I have more of clue than you will ever know. It's hilarious to get on here and see all the things that you try to get people fired up over and speculate about.....knowing that 95% of it is complete BS.

Again, why not just allow the union vote and drop the whole RLA deal? Is it BS that people are working for free through their lunches, or that morale is in the toilet in most locations? No, it isn't. What is BS, is individuals like yourself that get on here and pretend that everything is wonderful at FedEx. And that's a huge lie.

Please tell Fred he's wasting his millions fighting the Teamsters because he doesn't have to. If a vote were held today, every bit of crap you just spewed would be blown out of the water.

 

[vantexan]

If the vast majority of employees are so unhappy, why aren't they on here complaining about it like you? Everyone knows that unhappy people/customers are ten times more likely to complain, yet 99.9% of the negative posts on here are from you and you alone. What does "many" equate to from your scientific poll? Why was my SFA over 90, as well as my station's? If things are so bad, hit me on it....what are people afraid of? Contrary to your belief, I cannot see who scores what on the SFA......all I can see is who takes it. I'm sure someone in MEM can, but it gets no where near the local level. Oh that's right, you said it was a big conspiracy and the company is full of it when they said that SFA was up this year. Newsflash, your score on the SFA carries no more weight than anyone else, so despite the "Strongly Disagree" you answered on every question it all averages out. Actually, you probably refuse to take b/c you are paranoid that your mgr will find out that you dogged him.....even though it sounds as if he/she deserves it.

I have more of clue than you will ever know. It's hilarious to get on here and see all the things that you try to get people fired up over and speculate about.....knowing that 95% of it is complete BS.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of employees don't even know about this forum. Look at the forum index and see how many are viewing. Very possible there are more company monitors, even UPS employees, than FedEx employees viewing this forum.

I'm curious, do you consider the list I posted B.S.? Anything untrue? Let's be honest. People who've been around 20+ years remember a very different company. Eventually we'll all be gone and while some employees might not be thrilled with the company, what they know about the company will be what it has morphed into, not the company we old-timers knew. And in today's world it will be one of the better companies to work for, sad as that is. The days of great benefits and a great future for average workers appears to be over, and large corporations made that so. I'm just glad I managed to grab a little pension from them, and am now fervently praying for some serious deflation so that my little pension might be worth something.

 

[FedEx2000]

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of employees don't even know about this forum. Look at the forum index and see how many are viewing. Very possible there are more company monitors, even UPS employees, than FedEx employees viewing this forum.

I'm curious, do you consider the list I posted B.S.? Anything untrue? Let's be honest. People who've been around 20+ years remember a very different company. Eventually we'll all be gone and while some employees might not be thrilled with the company, what they know about the company will be what it has morphed into, not the company we old-timers knew. And in today's world it will be one of the better companies to work for, sad as that is. The days of great benefits and a great future for average workers appears to be over, and large corporations made that so. I'm just glad I managed to grab a little pension from them, and am now fervently praying for some serious deflation so that my little pension might be worth something.

I'm sure there are many that don't know, but don't you think that at least the people from MrFedEx's station, who are mostly apparently pro-union and think along the same lines as him, would at least be on here with him? All one has to do is Google FedEx/UPS and it is easily found, that's how I found it.

I don't think your list is b.s, the pension and mid-range/top-out pay issues are legitimate gripes. I think what you say about the "old-timers" might be true. I started in 2000, hence the name, so I cannot compare it to FedEx in 1990 etc. All I can pull from is the experience that I have had here, which is almost entirely positive. I would have topped out as a courier in 10-11 years, had I stayed in that position that long, I can live with that. 15-20 yrs though, that's definitely pushing it, unless the midrange bumps keep pace, which they haven't.

I consider myself lucky that I have a pension at all, not to mention a 401k match, so that's not a huge issue for me personally.....probably one of the big differences from a generation that relied on a pension to retire vs. a 401k/personal savings, but that is the new norm. A good friend of mine's dad lost his entire pension, he was/is a pilot for United...flies 777's. Luckily he is also in the AF Reserve as a Colonel and will get a nice Gov. pension. I would rather rely on myself to ensure my retirement vs. and company/union run pension plan that could be taken away like that. I understand though that age is the major issue limiting the options here, I have time on my side that some others don't.

As far as the health insurance goes, I don't think it's fair to blame FedEx for that, health care costs are just out of control all around. Our insurance is still very cheap comparatively, and I think that will be a major point of contention in the next round of UPS contract negotiations. I would be very surprised if UPS doesn't try to put some of that cost on the employees.

So, while I may have missed out on the glory days here, I came in about 18 months before 9/11 and have been here through the worst times this company and the US economy have seen since the 1930's. Considering the environment we have been operating in, I consider myself fortunate to have a good job that will be here tomorrow. We've cut a lot of fat all around, and I think we will be much better for it in the long run. If we can get our operating margin up over 10% like we have been trying to, I think we will all see some nice raises. In order to do that though, we have to run lean and really focus on areas that we can improve on. Are we asking a lot of the couriers? Absolutely. The pressure is on everywhere to improve SPH/PFTE's. To be honest though, I wouldn't want to work at a place that decides they are doing everything right and have no reason to try to improve b/c they won't be around much longer. Who would have thought 10 years ago that Blockbuster would be filing for bankruptcy? They fell behind b/c they got complacent and were only competing against local/regional competitors.....Netflix & RedBox came out of nowhere and basically wiped them out in what, 5 years?

Is FedEx perfect? No. Are all managers great? No. Am I paid fairly for this kind of work? Somedays I'm overpaid....other's way under paid. It averages out. I've never had a manager here treat me in a way that I felt was unfair or screw me over. I've had a few that had no idea what they were doing, but they never intentionally or maliciously did anything wrong to me. you'll find that same crap everywhere. I really feel that people who have been here 20+ years don't realize how good they have it, regardless of what they may have lost......try looking for another job or talk to kids coming out of college.....kids with Master's degrees serving coffee at Starbucks. Obviously there are exceptions, but it's not pretty out there.

Wow...way too long of a post....sorry.

 

[vantexan]

I'm sure there are many that don't know, but don't you think that at least the people from MrFedEx's station, who are mostly apparently pro-union and think along the same lines as him, would at least be on here with him? All one has to do is Google FedEx/UPS and it is easily found, that's how I found it.

I don't think your list is b.s, the pension and mid-range/top-out pay issues are legitimate gripes. I think what you say about the "old-timers" might be true. I started in 2000, hence the name, so I cannot compare it to FedEx in 1990 etc. All I can pull from is the experience that I have had here, which is almost entirely positive. I would have topped out as a courier in 10-11 years, had I stayed in that position that long, I can live with that. 15-20 yrs though, that's definitely pushing it, unless the midrange bumps keep pace, which they haven't.

I consider myself lucky that I have a pension at all, not to mention a 401k match, so that's not a huge issue for me personally.....probably one of the big differences from a generation that relied on a pension to retire vs. a 401k/personal savings, but that is the new norm. A good friend of mine's dad lost his entire pension, he was/is a pilot for United...flies 777's. Luckily he is also in the AF Reserve as a Colonel and will get a nice Gov. pension. I would rather rely on myself to ensure my retirement vs. and company/union run pension plan that could be taken away like that. I understand though that age is the major issue limiting the options here, I have time on my side that some others don't.

As far as the health insurance goes, I don't think it's fair to blame FedEx for that, health care costs are just out of control all around. Our insurance is still very cheap comparatively, and I think that will be a major point of contention in the next round of UPS contract negotiations. I would be very surprised if UPS doesn't try to put some of that cost on the employees.

So, while I may have missed out on the glory days here, I came in about 18 months before 9/11 and have been here through the worst times this company and the US economy have seen since the 1930's. Considering the environment we have been operating in, I consider myself fortunate to have a good job that will be here tomorrow. We've cut a lot of fat all around, and I think we will be much better for it in the long run. If we can get our operating margin up over 10% like we have been trying to, I think we will all see some nice raises. In order to do that though, we have to run lean and really focus on areas that we can improve on. Are we asking a lot of the couriers? Absolutely. The pressure is on everywhere to improve SPH/PFTE's. To be honest though, I wouldn't want to work at a place that decides they are doing everything right and have no reason to try to improve b/c they won't be around much longer. Who would have thought 10 years ago that Blockbuster would be filing for bankruptcy? They fell behind b/c they got complacent and were only competing against local/regional competitors.....Netflix & RedBox came out of nowhere and basically wiped them out in what, 5 years?

Is FedEx perfect? No. Are all managers great? No. Am I paid fairly for this kind of work? Somedays I'm overpaid....other's way under paid. It averages out. I've never had a manager here treat me in a way that I felt was unfair or screw me over. I've had a few that had no idea what they were doing, but they never intentionally or maliciously did anything wrong to me. you'll find that same crap everywhere. I really feel that people who have been here 20+ years don't realize how good they have it, regardless of what they may have lost......try looking for another job or talk to kids coming out of college.....kids with Master's degrees serving coffee at Starbucks. Obviously there are exceptions, but it's not pretty out there.

Wow...way too long of a post....sorry.

Tell your friend that his dad's private pension is insured by the gov't up to I believe $46k or close to that a year. If he was due more than that he won't get more than the $46k or so. The gov't requires all companies offering a pension to pay into the Pension Guaranty Fund to protect their employees.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Tell your friend that his dad's private pension is insured by the gov't up to I believe $46k or close to that a year. If he was due more than that he won't get more than the $46k or so. The gov't requires all companies offering a pension to pay into the Pension Guaranty Fund to protect their employees.

We just had a meeting regarding changes to our pension fund and were told that the guarantee offered by the Feds is $12,800 per year.

 

[vantexan]

I really feel that people who have been here 20+ years don't realize how good they have it, regardless of what they may have lost......

If you worked very hard for over 20 years, having it spelled out on a regular basis what you'd get if you stuck with the company, having it drummed into you over and over that you'll have a bright future with FedEx, then you might understand how we feel. As for your 401k, since as a mgr you make more than I do, I'd suggest you fully fund it if possible. For those of us who are getting strung along at lower pay, any funding we do will be woefully inadequate. A traditional pension isn't the only thing to rely on, but it is the foundation of a solid retirement. Or it was. And I'm serious about hoping for deflation. If we get bad inflation my little pension won't amount to anything. I tell you what, if FedEx greatly improves profits, but continues to hold pay down, will you then admit we need representation, whether the law allows it or not?

 

[vantexan]

We just had a meeting regarding changes to our pension fund and were told that the guarantee offered by the Feds is $12,800 per year.

I just Googled pension guaranty and the official gov't website said for 2010 the maximum amount guaranteed at age 65 is $54,000. Said if you elect to take it earlier or have survivors' benefits elected the maximum amount would be reduced accordingly.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I just Googled pension guaranty and the official gov't website said for 2010 the maximum amount guaranteed at age 65 is $54,000. Said if you elect to take it earlier or have survivors' benefits elected the maximum amount would be reduced accordingly.

I believe you--I was just telling you what we were told at our pension meeting.

 

[vantexan]

I believe you--I was just telling you what we were told at our pension meeting.

I believe you too, a lot of misinformation out there.

 

[MrFedEx]

If you worked very hard for over 20 years, having it spelled out on a regular basis what you'd get if you stuck with the company, having it drummed into you over and over that you'll have a bright future with FedEx, then you might understand how we feel. As for your 401k, since as a mgr you make more than I do, I'd suggest you fully fund it if possible. For those of us who are getting strung along at lower pay, any funding we do will be woefully inadequate. A traditional pension isn't the only thing to rely on, but it is the foundation of a solid retirement. Or it was. And I'm serious about hoping for deflation. If we get bad inflation my little pension won't amount to anything. I tell you what, if FedEx greatly improves profits, but continues to hold pay down, will you then admit we need representation, whether the law allows it or not?

FedEx 2000's comment that the 20+ year people "don't realize how good they have it" is very revealing. For one, it just confirms the FedEx idea that nothing is wrong, so no changes are necessary, because we don't know how lucky we are. What a load of crap. And "regardless of what they may have lost" is another version of the same thing. Even though we've been screwed blind, that's OK, because we are so effing lucky to be employed by FedEx. That's pathetic, but FedEx 2000 has bought into it, probably because everything is OK for him. Never mind that the hourlies have continually gotten the shaft for 20+ years and counting. THERE IS ONE ANSWER...A UNION.

 

[Cactus]

I wouldn't want to work at a place that decides they are doing everything right and have no reason to try to improve b/c they won't be around much longer. Who would have thought 10 years ago that Blockbuster would be filing for bankruptcy? They fell behind b/c they got complacent and were only competing against local/regional competitors.....Netflix & RedBox came out of nowhere and basically wiped them out in what, 5 years?

Hate to tell you this but you do.

It's called Fed Ex and they've been insulting their customer base for years now without any real effort to improve service by giving customers the service they pay for. Now it's wham bam thank you mam and we've got to meet our station goals, gotta make those numbers. then MT3 gets on Frontline and always says we got to show the purple promise to our customers so we'll start to cut routes." He is an artist (though not a very good one) at talking in circles. Hey Matt if you can't dazzle the workforce with brilliance baffle them with BS huh?

People use to get premium service for the extra money it cost to ship a package through Fed Ex. Now adays it's late freight on many days and poor planning for peak season with short staffing, poor weather planning and Fed Ex taking on way more freight than they can handle. I know for a fact couriers the last 10 years always bring back loads of undelivered freight during peak because company greed got in the way and tough crap if the customer doesn't get their package as promised. Fred and his boys instruct the districts to tell the call centers to make up some excuse so this wonderful company can weasel its way off the hook.

Don't think for one moment what happened to Blockbuster can't happen to Fed Ex and with the poor upper managemment in Memphis the house of cards foundation this company sits on can easily crumble.