US national debt

Special More, then why couldn't Bush II record any surpluses and ran over $1 Trillion in deficit per year ?

I don't care, if the debt ceiling doesn't get raised, would probably mean a big boom for us, as the Canadian dollar will rise close to 1:2 via the US, and Oil will double in price, making us the big bucks ! :)

You won`t raise the prices on hotdogs will you?:sad-very:
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Special More, then why couldn't Bush II record any surpluses and ran over $1 Trillion in deficit per year ?

I don't care, if the debt ceiling doesn't get raised, would probably mean a big boom for us, as the Canadian dollar will rise close to 1:2 via the US, and Oil will double in price, making us the big bucks ! :)

Bush hasn't been pres. for almost 3 yrs....it's all Obama now. I don't care if the debt ceiling doesn't get raised either. Let them find the money in the waste.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
Bush hasn't been pres. for almost 3 yrs....it's all Obama now. I don't care if the debt ceiling doesn't get raised either. Let them find the money in the waste.

According to our Bank financial expert on our news, I just watched 10 min, ago.
No matter what will happen now, America will lose it's AAA credit rating.
It's ok for you More, but to anyone that has mortgage or car payments, they can expect to pay a lot more soon.
For Republicans like yourself, much higher interest rates and a much lower US dollar, is much better then a small tax hike.
I'll place a link to the news story here soon... (it's not posted on the news website, yet).
 

klein

Für Meno :)
I have a mortgage. The downgrade is inevitable whether there's an agreement or not!

Wrong ! If the US government made cuts and raised taxes to get closer to a balanced budget, the credit rating could be saved.
But cutting 38% of the total budget is totally impossible.

I hope you watch the unbias Canadian News I'll be posting later. It's a great news story about the US financial, political situation. Only about 5 min long.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
Wrong ! If the US government made cuts and raised taxes to get closer to a balanced budget, the credit rating could be saved.
But cutting 38% of the total budget is totally impossible.

I hope you watch the unbias Canadian News I'll be posting later. It's a great news story about the US financial, political situation. Only about 5 min long.

That's probably untrue. Our national debt is close to the amount of our GDP. If you include our obligations you exceed our GDP. The only way to pay it back is through inflation. This lowers the value of the debt. A balanced budget does nothing to reverse this problem.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
That's probably untrue. Our national debt is close to the amount of our GDP. If you include our obligations you exceed our GDP. The only way to pay it back is through inflation. This lowers the value of the debt. A balanced budget does nothing to reverse this problem.
And that's why China has insisted on tying the value of it's currency to the dollar. Smart.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
That's probably untrue. Our national debt is close to the amount of our GDP. If you include our obligations you exceed our GDP. The only way to pay it back is through inflation. This lowers the value of the debt. A balanced budget does nothing to reverse this problem.

Good points. And even moreso, the economy is saying it wants to deflate but if allowed to do so and find it's new balance, this makes the debt crisis for the state even bigger because deflation among many things decreases total gov't revenues. A near hyper-inflation economy is the only way to save the state in it's debt crisis but this brings on other problems affecting the people but let's be honest, so-called saving the economy ain't about us, it's about them. Let it crash because a free mainstreet can quickly pick up the pieces and move on.

I must politely disagree with Felix Salmon of Reuters, Ben White at Politico and others who wring their hands and fret about the undoing of the world in the prospective debt default by the US. The damage is done, Felix declared on Reuters.com. I have heard similar views from many friends and colleagues, but I must disagree.


First the debate over the budget, pathetic as it may seem, represents an increase in the intensity of the public discourse over the nature of the American economy. Debate is good. It is the essence of checks and balances, the key feature that separates American democracy from the authoritarian states of Europe and Asia.

For too long Americans have been on auto pilot, relying upon elected representatives and various flavors of hired agents in Washington and on Wall Street to manage our money and our nation. It’s time to start paying attention again.

Second and more important, the debate over federal spending and the tradeoff between higher taxes and greater fiscal discipline begins a larger discussion about the nature of the American political system. After 80 years of borrow, spend and inflate to finance the Cold War, Housing Bubbles and the rest of the world’s growth needs, the US economy has reached an endpoint. The experiment in corporate statism begun by FDR in the 1930s and extended through and after WWII has brought us to the brink of insolvency.

Political gridlock in Washington means not only an end to growth in government spending, but also that we are no longer willing to serve as the overdraft account for the world in terms of demand for imported goods and services. As I noted in my 2010 book Inflated, the US has bailed out the no growth states of Europe three times since WWI. Each time our allies in western Europe have defaulted on their debts. Bring the US troops in Europe home, I say, right now.


continue reading here

Christoper Whalen also in the piece above sez:
Americans need to understand that we face not a mid-cycle slowdown, to paraphrase the economist Richard Alford, but a post-stimulus adjustment to economic reality. Think post WWII in fact. If this crisis helps to break the cycle of debt and inflation, that is a big plus for America’s long term prospects.


The right choice for Americans is to say no to ever more debt and to instead embrace debt reduction and restructuring of insolvent banks and markets to restore economic solidity. Both in the EU and the US, debt levels by governments and consumers must be reduced to restore national and personal solvency, and thereby start the great growth game all over again.


Do Americans have the courage to make the tough choices, cut spending and also generate more revenue, and thereby set an example for the world? I think the answer is yes, but it may take some time. That is why I am in no hurry to pass the new debt ceiling. A few days or weeks of pain will raise the political temperature in Washington even further and bring all Americans into the proverbial kitchen for a long overdue family discussion about money. And that is a very good thing.

I do think that mainstreet America needs to turn a deaf ear to the MSM court jester spin masters and self serving Washington punditry by realizing that everything done at the national level doesn't benefit the average folk in heartland America. Let Washington and Wall Street die on the vine and the rotten fruit fall to the ground. We'll be the better for it in the long run. Turn your back and walk away.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
The amount at $14.2 trillion is a little old, but trying to describe how big that number is, is stunning.................

 

klein

Für Meno :)
Debate is good. It is the essence of checks and balances, the key feature that separates American democracy from the authoritarian states of Europe and Asia.

Who ever wrote that is a total idiot, since they have no clue how multiple parties work in Europe or even Canada.
The US only has 2 parties and a few independents, and that is the problem !
If only a 3rd party was present in the US congress it wouldn't come to a stalemate, period.
(2 out of 3 would agree on a solution and any differences would have been solved by now, easily) !

The 2 party system is what is killing America at this point in time, with none holding a majority.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Who ever wrote that is a total idiot, since they have no clue how multiple parties work in Europe or even Canada.
The US only has 2 parties and a few independents, and that is the problem !
If only a 3rd party was present in the US congress it wouldn't come to a stalemate, period.
(2 out of 3 would agree on a solution and any differences would have been solved by now, easily) !

The 2 party system is what is killing America at this point in time, with none holding a majority.

You're gonna solve America's financial problems and you can't even keep thieves out of your till.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
You're gonna solve America's financial problems and you can't even keep thieves out of your till.

You know, if you had just a little bit of common knowledge, you would know that employee theft is the largest theft group of any business.
And your totally off topic anyways, and so am I as I type.

Therefor, I'm going to add that Obama has it right, cuts alone just won't do it, and tax increases are unavoidable !
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
Good points. And even moreso, the economy is saying it wants to deflate but if allowed to do so and find it's new balance, this makes the debt crisis for the state even bigger because deflation among many things decreases total gov't revenues. A near hyper-inflation economy is the only way to save the state in it's debt crisis but this brings on other problems affecting the people but let's be honest, so-called saving the economy ain't about us, it's about them. Let it crash because a free mainstreet can quickly pick up the pieces and move on.

I agree with all of that. I would also add that in my opinion the governments constant push for inflation has done more to destroy the middle class than any other single thing.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
Therefor, I'm going to add that Obama has it right, cuts alone just won't do it, and tax increases are unavoidable !

I posted a couple years ago my plan to eliminate the debt and it is possible to completely eliminate the debt without any tax increases. You have to look no farther than any household budget to see the truth in my statement. If I remember correctly my plan could have done it in two years. Debt has nothing to do with income and it's difficult to believe how someone like you would think that it does. Debt comes from spending more than you bring in.


Turns out all our government would have to do to have a balanced budget is to adopt the 2003 budget. From a real economist.
 
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klein

Für Meno :)
And the goverment would also need to have the same level of employment as in 2003 ! Oh yeah, didn't you get a pay raise since 2003 , too ? (meaning inflation and labor costs more on government spending)....
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
And the goverment would also need to have the same level of employment as in 2003 ! Oh yeah, didn't you get a pay raise since 2003 , too ? (meaning inflation and labor costs more on government spending)....

OK, I read this 3 times and only have one thing to say HUH?
 
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