Useless Union Representation..

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by xracer, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. xracer

    xracer Member

    Just wondering what everyone here thinks about the representation they are getting from thier local. In our center there are very few people that get any satisfaction, due to in my opinion, a business agent that is lazy and very possibly on the take from the company. Our stewards state that the BA spends more time arguing with them than he does with management and he almost always seems to take the side of management. File a greivance and your chances of getting paid are not very likely as it is very likely to be traded off for some kind of deal that is made with the company. Just this week we had a discrepency with the number of driver that should be allowed to bid vacation per week during the summer, we have a center that generally dispatches 28 runs and in all the years that I have been there we have always had 6 drivers per week on vaca during June, July and Aug. this year the center manager decides that we can only have 5 on vaca per week and our steward diputed this but the BA as usually did not back up our steward and sided with management and we lost 13 weeks of vacation. I am looking for any suggestions as what to do to help our situation. Either how to out this guy or maybe switch to another local, there is a good one 150 miles from us and ours is 100 miles from our center anyway..
  2. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    we had a business agent that went back to driving, only 2 months later to go into management.

    I always had a problem with that. my personal feeling is that if you want to be a business agent, you should have to sign saying you will not go into management for at least 5 years after you get out of the union job.

  3. 25yrvet

    25yrvet New Member

    You should get some of your fellow members & stewards together and see if they feel the same way as you; if so, put on a united front & go up the ladder to one of Hoofa's boys.
  4. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    contract language is pretty clear on the number of summer vacations. How many routes do you have? If its still 28 then do also have the 15 percent on vacation rule? If so then 5 not 6 would be the number.
  5. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    Aw come on tie, you know better than that. If it were by route, they would only be eligible for 4 Vacations per week.

    They are not by the number of routes, but rather by the number of drivers. In this case, 28 routes, with 6 cover drivers for vacation. That gives us 34 drivers times 15% which is 5.10 vacations per week, rounded down to 5

    You need to have 37-43 employees to qualify for the 6th week.

    Racer, see where this is going. If you have one more or less than the 37 needed makes every bit of difference in the number of vacations per week

    Last edited: Jan 6, 2006
  6. Big Toe

    Big Toe Guest

    I dont know where you are located but, in the central region it`s 17%.
    Based on the number of drivers not routes.
  7. speeddemon

    speeddemon Guest

    we have no representation. Its a joke. I havent seen the BA in 5 months.
  8. xracer

    xracer Member

    The months that I am talking about are June, July and Aug. and according to Article 60 Section 3 /In the package and feeder driver classification, a minumun of twenty percent(20%) of the bid jobs, exclusive of bid cover jobs, will count towards the total number of employeees allowed to take vacations during June, July and August, and fifteen (15%) of the bid jobs, exclusive of bid cover jobs, the balance of the year..
  9. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    Your language is different than ours. Ours it is 15% of the total number of employees on the payroll for June through October and 10% for the remainder of the year. period, no adjusting for cover, bid cover, etc etc. If you are in that classification, you are counted.

  10. outta hours

    outta hours Active Member

    In our area the Ba's are always from UPS even though there are other companies in the local. Always seemed foolish that the BA's have to battle with the company and then in a few years come back to take orders from the same mgmnt. that they were butting heads with. The system is flawed that allows this to happen. I know the company benefits from this. It would make more sense for us to be represented by someone who does not work at UPS. The current system benefits the company and the BA but not the member. But who can balme the BA they make over 100 k a year for a few years, don't step on any toes. And if they get voted out they are right back with a good job at UPS plus a pension from all of the companies they represented during their term. It's just they way UPS likes it, they have all the power albeit at times indirectly but they still hold all the cards.
  11. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    Our BA makes 45-46 grand a year.

    How do you figure someone that has never worked for ups would make a better BA. That my friend is BS. It would take years for them to learn the terminology, the ins and out of how this company is run, an education that would be almost impossible to get from the outside. We have had both. If they leave the job as a BA and don't work for UPS what makes you think there are not other jobs available to them that pay close to what we make? Not to mention moving up within the teamsters.

    But I do think that going back to ups as management does represent a clear conflict of interests that should be stopped.
  12. outta hours

    outta hours Active Member

    Danny- I think it would be easy to represent us if they did not work at UPS there is a guide book how to do it called the contract. Work expierence at UPS is not the most important requirement for being a good BA. I say it may even be a hinderance. I see your point about the BA's should not be allowed to return into mgmnt. I however disagree with your statement that adquate representation can only be achieved by someone with UPS work expierence. If that were the case what about the 7 other companies that our local represents? The BA's have to work on their behalf even though they have never been employed there. Should those members get a discount on their union dues? My opnion is that the system as it stands now is flawed. You do not bite the hand that feeds you either now or later. I am new to this board and enjoy the opportunity to have these discussions and to agree to disagree.
  13. xracer

    xracer Member

    The pay scale for a BA in our local is that of 45 hours straight pay per week at a rate of a feeder driver hauling doubles which works out to roughly $60,000/yr. As far as the BA having prior UPS experience it is both beneficial and a hinderance to his job. Yes the knowledge required to deal with the company is great and should help him/her in dealing with issues as they arise but on the flipside the BA is not going to want to burn their bridges because of the chance that they may need to return to UPS for a job sometime in the future. This being said the BA still has a job to do in protecting the rights of all the members and should not repeatedly argue against them and in the favor of the company. I understand that not in every circumstance is the greivant right but it would be nice to occasionally get the feeling that my monthly union dues are going for something other than the dramatic weight gain that has taken place by our BA.
  14. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    It is my understanding that the BA has the right to come back into the center without loss of seniority etc.

    As for impossible, that is not what I was getting at for an outsider representing ups workers. It is easier to represent the others without having worked there than it would be here.

    Over the years, we have had 7 or 8 BA's several of which had never worked or even been in a UPS center. Our culture is so different than any other place. Even a poor UPS BA was better than they were. And usually by the time they had learned the ropes, enough poor representation had occurred to have them voted out.

    BTW, that is the way you change what you don't like. Get more involved with the union. Our current BA was a part time car washer. Lot of people thought he would never make a good BA.

    He has taken our local from being in the red to having a surplus, he asks for help on items he has limited knowledge on. Most times when going to the panel, he asks for the assistance of several other long time union driver shop stewards. He understands that he is not a one man show, many minds working together are better than just one.

    In the last four years one of the more successful things he has done was to go back as many as 15-18 years on driver progression pay and get back pay where the company shorted the drivers. The average for the drivers involved has been close to 13 grand.

    Like I said, get active. Get involved. And if the changes do not occur, then vote him out and get someone else in there. How about you?

  15. silkee

    silkee Guest

    Ours is also, the Union hall is only a few blocks from the center. In my opinion our BA should be there one morning per week to show mgt he cares and to anwser questions from members.. I also think it is a joke that our BA host fish frys and cookouts with Mgt. You are either for teamsters or against them. I bet he would trade grievances for a few cases of beer. It really ticks me off to know thats what my dues are going for.. The APW union could do no worse.
  16. speeddemon

    speeddemon Guest

    We havent seen our BA all year long. Our union is a waste of my money.
  17. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

  18. oakland

    oakland New Member

    Our B.A. does an excellent job. He comes to our building alot, all shifts. He also has a very busy travel schedule because we have alot of greivances to put on. You think there is a battle between the union and the company, but there is just as big a battle between the Labor dept. and Operations. Simple cases that should never leave local review make it to 2nd and 3rd level because no one in management can make a decision so they P.A.S it on to the next guy. Our B.A. makes the Labor folks show up early order out and stay late because he nows how hard they make us work so why shouldn't they do the same. It screws up their Cocktail Hour, Tennis Game or Poolside Time. I would like to see what their expenses are per year.
  20. over9five

    over9five Senior Member Staff Member

    Hey Disneyworld, remember when the BA and the local pres would come thru once a week? Now they won't come at all since the hub voted for that other guys slate to go to the convention!