Vehicle sensors costs...

[soberups]

Here's another question;

If the intent of the seatbelt and bulkhead door sensors is to enhance safety...they why not wire these items into the starter relay so that the vehicle wont run at all unless the belt is clicked and the door is shut? If you are already spending the money on wiring, sensors etc, why not eliminate the issue entirely and force these items to be used before the car will start? Is it possible...that UPS is less interested in saving the drivers life and more interested in simply being able to document a case for his eventual terminaton?

 

[brownmonster]

It astounds me that a company that makes a business decision to spend $700 on sensors to detect seat belt usage...also made a business decision that the life of the driver wasnt worth the $40 it would have cost to put a 3 point belt in the pre-'95 package cars.

Mines a 95 and doesn't have 3 point. It's faster but not safer.

 

[DS]

Do you mean better things to do, like continuously posting and criticizing on every single thread. What is your job that you are able to be on here all the time and to do the "research" you do to refute every post that you don't agree with? Time for a new hobby, eh? Your garbage is beyond old.

sx, danny has been a distinguished member of the bc pretty much from its inauguration,and has gained enough respect from us regulars to make me feel that I had to speak up. Danny is a wise old man thats always helpful,has a vast knowledge of life on earth as we know it
Maybe you need to move out of your mother's basement, get a girlfriend, and get a life.

 

[dannyboy]

heffe

what the system allows the company to do is to see a pattern on a daily basis on that car, on that route, with that driver. every day builds up data that can be useful in several different ways, like fuel economy, engine/clutch/brake life, transmission issues, etc.

the issue with the bulkhead door and seat belts is another way for them to be able to "see" who is using proper methods.

someone else:

as for the slamming the door a bunch of times, nothing like a foolish act to get attention. when coupled with the gps/time clock/deliveries, the black box will tell them exactly what the driver did. he was sitting still at this stop, engine running. he opened the door 15 times without moving the package car. funny, he only had one package for the stop he was parked at.

well what do you know, the next 15 stops he delivered without opening up the bulkhead door. wonder how the driver did that. well, i guess we will have to go out on road and watch. you did not get on trouble with what the technology told them, you got in trouble because the technology told them you were not following methods, so they checked to make sure.

and with seat belts, it is a firing offense.

you really think you can outsmart the system ups has? then you need to quit and start your own company.

d helen, a spoon burger is lean ground beef browned with onion soup mix on it to give it the flavor. kinda like sloppy joes, without the tomato sauce. best way to load it on a bun is with a spoon, hence its name?

 

[But Benefits Are Great!]

Here's another question;

If the intent of the seatbelt and bulkhead door sensors is to enhance safety...they why not wire these items into the starter relay so that the vehicle wont run at all unless the belt is clicked and the door is shut? If you are already spending the money on wiring, sensors etc, why not eliminate the issue entirely and force these items to be used before the car will start? Is it possible...that UPS is less interested in saving the drivers life and more interested in simply being able to document a case for his eventual terminaton?

I don't know the answer - but I'm quite sure it relates to the same reason they don't install back-up beepers like every other truck on the planet has.

 

[DS]

then why not wire these items into the starter relay so that the vehicle wont run at all unless the belt is clicked and the door is shut? Is it possible...that UPS is less interested in saving the drivers life and more interested in simply being able to document a case for his eventual terminaton?

Wow sober you live up to your name here...
Your post makes total sense

 

[HEFFERNAN]

Sober makes a good point but I'll take it 1 step further.

Why not just add a breathalyzer tube on startup. We can blow into it every hour so Management will know we are not intoxicated while driving. That is also a fireable offense, right Danny. What do you mean that would be a waste of time? The scenario is possible

IF UPS WANTS TO GET SAFE, LETS GET SERIOUS

 

[Big Babooba]

Here's another question;

If the intent of the seatbelt and bulkhead door sensors is to enhance safety...they why not wire these items into the starter relay so that the vehicle wont run at all unless the belt is clicked and the door is shut? If you are already spending the money on wiring, sensors etc, why not eliminate the issue entirely and force these items to be used before the car will start? Is it possible...that UPS is less interested in saving the drivers life and more interested in simply being able to document a case for his eventual terminaton?

The DOT mandated seat belt / ignition interlocks in passenger cars for the 1974 model year. They were nothing but trouble and the DOT changed their mind halfway through the model year. They used a fuzzy logic computer. You had to go through a set sequence from opening the door to turning the key in a set order. If you didn't then the car wouldn't start. You could always use the override button under the hood each time you started the car. My brother in law had a '74 Charger. He was always pushing that button because the car wouldn't start. He was happy the day he could take it to the dealer to have the system removed. I hope we never have to go down that road again.

 

[dannyboy]

sober

from what i understood early on, the company looked at that type of system, but because of issues with reliability, and employee tampering, the decision was made to just document.

there were issues where the belt stayed buckled all day allowing the car to start, but the driver never wore the belt. this way, the driver at least has to put it on and take it off at each stop. might as well do it right if you are going to go through the motions.

I don't know the answer - but I'm quite sure it relates to the same reason they don't install back-up beepers like every other truck on the planet has.

sorry, nope, every other truck on the planet does not have them.

and like other items that were meant to be a safety enhancement, the backup beepers have been so over used that studies have shown that most people just ignore them.

but i am assuming since you are a full time/part time/temp/cover/air driver that you are aware your package car comes equiped with a rear facing camera? and a dusty monitor so you can see what is behind the truck? that is what they went with instead of other means and methods.

d

 

[Jack4343]

Mines a 95 and doesn't have 3 point. It's faster but not safer.

Mine's a 1995 P1000 also with just a lap belt. Don't get me wrong, while using just a lap belt is faster to latch and overall easier to use than a 3 point harness, I often wonder just how far my head will go through the windshield if, god forbid, I get involved in a serious accident. It sends chills down my spine. I know alot of management personnel read this board. Can anyone get the wheels rolling on doing something about this? I mean, I've learned all the DOK questions backwards and forwards, I've made 9.5 on days that I probably shouldn't have because you asked me to and I've worked myself to exhaustion countless numbers of times to do my job and do it well. Are you telling me that my life is not worth the $40 for a piece of possibly life saving equipment? Ok, end rant!

 

[dannyboy]

jack

not only in the windshield, but out the door. the shoulder harness could save your life that way as well,

there is no downside, and ups can and should do it. i have heard the excuses. but they need to move on the issue.

d

 

[soberups]

Are you telling me that my life is not worth the $40 for a piece of possibly life saving equipment? Ok, end rant!

Yes, that is exactly what they are telling you.

The individual(s) who made the business decision to delete the three-point belt were from corporate. They would never personally have to drive a vehicle so equipped. The safety of the driver was never a factor in their decision making process....their only concern was to produce a vehicle that would meet the absolute bare minimum legal safety standards in place at that time, for as cheaply as possible.

 

[soberups]

jack

not only in the windshield, but out the door. the shoulder harness could save your life that way as well,

there is no downside, and ups can and should do it. i have heard the excuses. but they need to move on the issue.

d

Mid-1995 was the point at which 3-point belts became mandatory per the DOT.

The International/Navistar P-1000's of that model year...numbered in the 135,xxx series....have attachment points in the door frame for a 3-point harness, but they are equipped only with a lap belt.

Identical P-1000's produced later in that same year, numbered in the 136,xxx series, are all equipped with the 3-point belt.

In other words....UPS continued to intentionally delete this feature up until the very last day that it was still legal to do so....even in vehicles that were designed from the factory to accomodate a 3-point belt.

A replacement 3-point belt assembly will bolt right on to a 135,xxx-series car equipped only with a lap belt. I wouldnt hold your breath waiting for it to happen, though.

At least we can all take comfort in knowing that they will now spend $700 on a system that will make damn sure that they can fire us for failing to wear that lap belt.

 

[soberups]

The DOT mandated seat belt / ignition interlocks in passenger cars for the 1974 model year. They were nothing but trouble and the DOT changed their mind halfway through the model year. .

True, but that was 34 years ago. Computer and automotive technology has come a long way since then....most 1974 cars were carbuerated and still used points and a condensor for ignition. I can remember people bypassing the system by simply pulling the belt out and tying a knot in it to bypass the switch. If UPS were really serious about safety....as opposed to just setting us up to be fired....they would hook the sensors up to disable the ignition unless the belt was on and the door shut.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

BBAG, I have been told that the reason UPS won't install back-up beepers is that drivers of vehicles with those devices tend to rely upon them and are perhaps not as aware of their surroundings compared to UPS drivers who are trained to scan the area before a back and during the back if conditions change and/or it is a long back and to beep the horn intermittently during the back. I have also found that pedestrians tend to dismiss the back-up beepers while they respond to the sound of the horn.

 

[Mike Hawk]

sober

from what i understood early on, the company looked at that type of system, but because of issues with reliability, and employee tampering, the decision was made to just document.

there were issues where the belt stayed buckled all day allowing the car to start, but the driver never wore the belt. this way, the driver at least has to put it on and take it off at each stop. might as well do it right if you are going to go through the motions.
Most kids in high school programing class could make a basic program to do it, the progarming in the DIAD is 100 times more complex, hell it doesn't even have to be a program just sensors that would complete the ignition curcut. With the seatbelt sensors it would be pretty easy to detect tampering.
sorry, nope, every other truck on the planet does not have them.

and like other items that were meant to be a safety enhancement, the backup beepers have been so over used that studies have shown that most people just ignore them.
I read something a while back about emergency vehicles in England that had that problem, people didn't react to their siren, so they changed the noise and continue to every once in awhile. They could even wire the horn to go off when it backs, UPS already says they should use the horn so it must be a noticeable sound in their eyes.
but i am assuming since you are a full time/part time/temp/cover/air driver that you are aware your package car comes equiped with a rear facing camera? and a dusty monitor so you can see what is behind the truck? that is what they went with instead of other means and methods.

d

 

[dilligaf]

LOL Helen. I was wondering the same thing but was to tired to ask.

 

[dilligaf]

Daniel? Did you miss Helens question?

 

[drewed]

Heres the cost benefit 700 per package car x some 90,000 package cars which would be 63 mil..... driver backs excessively runs over granny and grandkids dead wrongful death lawsuit to UPS 12 million, bulkhead door not closed driver slams on breaks rebar sample goes through the back of the drivers head....1000 minor fender benders average cost 600 bucks, 600,000 bucks....driver does wear his seatlbelt gets rear ended gets whipflash 10,000 in chiropratic costs, 60k to fix the discs in his neck, another 10 k in rehab then a settlement for 90k for perm disability.

Do all of those happen everyday? No of course not we;d be out of business if we did but in comp costs, insurance premiums and publicity its worth the 700 bucks....have a lot more sensors to do what they do everyday and they accept it and move on you should too.

 

[dannyboy]

Daniel? Did you miss Helens question?

no miss silly dilly. check out post 24. its there.

and in case you are too tired to check, i pasted it here, just for you!!!!!

helen, a spoon burger is lean ground beef browned with onion soup mix on it to give it the flavor. kinda like sloppy joes, without the tomato sauce. best way to load it on a bun is with a spoon, hence its name?

it is a dish that is great for camp outs, and a quick meal at other times. from start to cleaned up, 20 minutes.

d