War

[satellitedriver]

Somebody please inform the NJ Housewife that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11....Nor did the entire body of Islamic people that are responsible.

Maybe, you should inform yourself about her post.
It never mentioned Iraq, nor did it condemn the entire body of Islamic people.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Maybe, you should inform yourself about her post.
It never mentioned Iraq, nor did it condemn the entire body of Islamic people.

It doesn't matter. In a liberal eyes it's always about Iraq, Bush, and oil profits. It doesn't matter what the topic is. One, or all, of those key words will surface. We could be debating whether or not global warming is caused by man or the many different ways to eat a hamburger and a liberal will always start ranting about Bush and Iraq. If they are in a really sour mood then you can also expect to hear something about globalization and a complaint about how they think the CIA will be listening to their phone call later that night even though anyone else with a true understanding of how it really works knows that it doesn't really work that way.

 

[wkmac]

Maybe, you should inform yourself about her post.
It never mentioned Iraq, nor did it condemn the entire body of Islamic people.

Well actually it did:

I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for chopping off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

If memory serves me, this incident took place in Iraq. If not, I stand corrected.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called 'insurgents' in Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.

Well that was Iraq.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care.

Not exactly Iraq but pretty close.


When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college-hazing incident, rest assured: I don't care.

Same again.

Depending on how the reader takes the context to the overall situation, you may have some point but I can see where you could come away with a different POV too. I came away thinking Iraq was among other things, on her mind and let's face it, that is the central focus in the region no matter which way any of us try and spin it.

 

[satellitedriver]

Well actually it did:



Depending on how the reader takes the context to the overall situation, you may have some point but I can see where you could come away with a different POV too. I came away thinking Iraq was among other things, on her mind and let's face it, that is the central focus in the region no matter which way any of us try and spin it.

You got me.
I read too fast and posted too quickly.
I do agree with her post, so that probably influenced my reaction.

 

[wkmac]

I noticed your name on the District part of UPSers.com yesterday. I am not trying to out you or anything, I have noticed you have posted where you work and what you do. And you were chosen EOM for June, not July! You missed the special breakfast. I got that hallowed title once. Here, they give you a special parking pass so you can park next to the guard gate. Right after I got it, the OCS in charge of the Employee of the Month program got transfered, and nobody paid attention to it for a while. I kept the pass and used it for six months since nobody ever asked for it back. Finally I started feeling guilty, so I just started parking elsewhere.

No sweat!

I got that honor once before back in Jan. and we had a Porter retiring so for her last month I gave her my parking pass kinda as my way of a nice jester. Had I known before that they were gonna give it to me I would have asked they give it to her and she was a deserving employee too so it wasn't like it would have been a stretch.

This past Monday another porter came to me and it was by her that I learned I was the June EOM. It took management another 2 or 3 days to finally tell me. LMFAO!!!! She wanted to know if she could have my parking spot which I said sure. I'm easy! I got a nice spot up in the lot under a tree that shades my car and I like it. Plus I don't mind the walk anyway.

BTW: Check out the music threads as I'm passing something on to DS that will make him very jealous. I'm gonna try and console him after he killed his Martin.

 

[wkmac]

You got me.
I read too fast and posted too quickly.
I do agree with her post, so that probably influenced my reaction.

Join the Club!

@ both of us!


It get's tough as hell reading those long posts by Moreluck!

 

[JustTired]

Big arrow and diesel,

Sitting here reading your posts knocking each other reminds me of an exciting afternoon watching c-span. On one hand you got Republicans deriding any idea that the Democrats come up with....on the other hand you've got the opposite. Very grade school, wouldn't you agree? No bi-partisan compromises in site. Then you've got a sitting President who says we have to work together to come up with solutions....but threatens to veto anything that doesn't mirror his opinion. Now that's what I call compromise.

Bottom line.....our government works this way....why shouldn't those at BC follow suit?

Nothing getting solved here either. Next......

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Big arrow and diesel,

Sitting here reading your posts knocking each other reminds me of an exciting afternoon watching c-span. On one hand you got Republicans deriding any idea that the Democrats come up with....on the other hand you've got the opposite. Very grade school, wouldn't you agree? No bi-partisan compromises in site. Then you've got a sitting President who says we have to work together to come up with solutions....but threatens to veto anything that doesn't mirror his opinion. Now that's what I call compromise.

Bottom line.....our government works this way....why shouldn't those at BC follow suit?

Nothing getting solved here either. Next......

In order to work together there has to be agreements or compromises for certain issues but there are also issues where it is not wise to compromise or give in. Especially when it involves morality and security. Some people stick to their beliefs. Maybe thats why Bush is vetoing certain things. This is just an online discussion board and has little or no bearing on what happens in our government. If this is resembles C-Span and bores you then why keep reading? I'm not attempting to blow smoke in your face here. I'm just wondering why you would continue to keep reading our exciting debates if they suck so bad. LOL! Some people apparently like reading them because they occasionally chime in. Thats the beauty of discussion boards. You can pick and chose what interests you and chime in and if it starts to bore you then there are always plenty of other topics.

 

[moreluck]

Somebody needs to explain bipartisanism to Nancy Pelosi......She sits as a queen and the ONE figure stopping the drilling for oil and she is relishing the power she weilds. Screw her (someone please)

 

[1989]

Somebody needs to explain bipartisanism to Nancy Pelosi......She sits as a queen and the ONE figure stopping the drilling for oil and she is relishing the power she weilds. Screw her (someone please)

Pelosi for VP....

 

[diesel96]

Maybe, you should inform yourself about her post.
It never mentioned Iraq, nor did it condemn the entire body of Islamic people.

First off I doubt a Housewife from NJ actual wrote this RNC pyrimad e-mail to begin with. Anyway to add to what WKMAC enlightened you to, this sentence IMO takes the cake: 'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September11,2001?
If it said white people, black people, christian people, Jewish people, buddha people, whatever it sounds all inclusive.

YouTube - Daisy Running Laps

I'm sorry! I tired with all my might to resist posting this but I just can't help myself.

Diesel,

My Good Friend. From one christian brother to another, may I offer you some adivice from the good book and the words of Jesus? I'll assume you said yes!

Read the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew. Chapter 7 about how one is suppose to care for one's "PEARLS"!

I've do doubt in my mind that you will appreciate what I'm saying,

I always appreciate what your saying Conrad. I believe your refering to Christ sermon on the mount...Matthew...chapter 5. A good lesson, one however, not enough of us choose to follow. Talk about Daisy doing laps, your bringing me back to my aftercare religious school classes at Our Lady of Perpetual Help (seriously that was the name). God loves you bro and so do I (in a non-homo way).

That is nothing less than a cowards way of back peddling out of a debate once they've realized they've been outwitted. I suggest you seek professional help in the form of a real education and not one set in a liberal environment.

BAU...you have a motor mouth like "Daisy"...Wkmac's wonder you tube dog running laps around in circles. Nobody's back peddling or being outwitted with your RNC scripted Liberal this - Liberal that rants. I can tell your getting real agitated and bloating like a puffer fish.I'll back off, but in the meantime relax, kicback and have a 7UP... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjlqWKI3KUQ



Like I said...you know nothing of warfare so let me educate you. And this is, or so I though it would be, common sense and shouldn't require a military background to understand but I'll help you out. All the advanced weapons in the world, including the satellites you mentioned, don't mean squat if you don't have superior tactics on the ground and don't have the will to fight. It also helps greatly to have full support of your government and civilians. In fact, when fighting terrorists it's actually more important to have that support than to have all that technology. And again.....weaponry, or lack of weaponry doesn't excuse purposely blowing up civilians and cutting people's heads off. Even liberals should agree with that. Don't liberals have a conscience?

Save your educating for your inner circle of gullible talking heads. All of a sudden you morf from grunt to battlefield commander. But thats not what wrong with your statement. Whats really wrong with your statement is your total lack of powerstructure reguarding the United States of America. In case your not familiar with our constitution, the military is not the kingpin. The Civilians (the people) must have full the support and loyalty FROM it's gov't representatives (which is not happening right now) and the bottom dwellers , the military, must be loyal to our commander in chief, and their superior officers who answer only to the President. Unfortunately , those in the chain in command who have questioned the President have been sent packing. Now ,when you have a break in that chain, as the gov't chose to do, chaos rears it's ugly head to the forefront, and thats what you have now. So save your warfare mumbo jumbo for your conservative talk shows and spare the average citizen their ear. Nobody ever wants to see, hear, or experience a terroroist act ever again, but as long as you promote war and meddling in the middle east it's bound to happen again. Your idealogy makes the world unsafer.

 

[diesel96]

Somebody needs to explain bipartisanism to Nancy Pelosi......She sits as a queen and the ONE figure stopping the drilling for oil and she is relishing the power she weilds. Screw her (someone please)

How much more you want Nancy to cave in? She's practically conceded to every whim the republicans have ask her to. I just want to see her topless....JK

 

[satellitedriver]

First off I doubt a Housewife from NJ actual wrote this RNC pyrimad e-mail to begin with. Anyway to add to what WKMAC enlightened you to, this sentence IMO takes the cake: 'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September11,2001?
If it said white people, black people, christian people, Jewish people, buddha people, whatever it sounds all inclusive.





I always appreciate what your saying Conrad. I believe your refering to Christ sermon on the mount...Matthew...chapter 5. A good lesson, one however, not enough of us choose to follow. Talk about Daisy doing laps, your bringing me back to my aftercare religious school classes at Our Lady of Perpetual Help (seriously that was the name). God loves you bro and so do I (in a non-homo way).

Well then, answer the question she posed.
'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September11,2001?

 

[diesel96]

Well then, answer the question she posed.
'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September11,2001?

Here comes Daisy the you tube dog running laps again.....That's two repeatative questions being posed to me here not one. I'm going to start charging. Question one....war on terror is in Afgh/Pakis....iraq is an occupation and mainly fights with insurgents and civil unrest. Question two....the entire body of Islamic people are not responsible. Lets try 15 attackers from Saudi Arabia, 2 from United Arab Emirates, 1 from Egypt, and 1 from Lebanon, that maynot be the choirboy representatives of the Islamic/Miuslim faith.

 

[brett636]

How much more you want Nancy to cave in? She's practically conceded to every whim the republicans have ask her to. I just want to see her topless....JK

*runs to bathroom*

 

[moreluck]

Originally Posted by diesel96
How much more you want Nancy to cave in?

Hmmm,. Nancy Pelosi in a cave-in....works for me !!

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Save your educating for your inner circle of gullible talking heads. All of a sudden you morf from grunt to battlefield commander. But thats not what wrong with your statement. Whats really wrong with your statement is your total lack of powerstructure reguarding the United States of America. In case your not familiar with our constitution, the military is not the kingpin. The Civilians (the people) must have full the support and loyalty FROM it's gov't representatives (which is not happening right now) and the bottom dwellers , the military, must be loyal to our commander in chief, and their superior officers who answer only to the President. Unfortunately , those in the chain in command who have questioned the President have been sent packing. Now ,when you have a break in that chain, as the gov't chose to do, chaos rears it's ugly head to the forefront, and thats what you have now. So save your warfare mumbo jumbo for your conservative talk shows and spare the average citizen their ear. Nobody ever wants to see, hear, or experience a terroroist act ever again, but as long as you promote war and meddling in the middle east it's bound to happen again. Your idealogy makes the world unsafer.

You are right about not having the full support of government officials. Your leftists buddies in congress are so eager to get a socialist in the white house, and have been since Bush won the first election, that they are willing to undermine their own troops by opposing the war. And you mentioned saving "mumbo jumbo" for the conservative talk shows and to spare the average citizen from it? LOL! I guess you still don't understand that the average citizens are the ones tuning in to those shows. I guess you'll never learn. War and meddling in the middle east? Are we supposed to invite them over here instead? Man, you are clueless. My idealogy makes the world "unsafer"??? LOL! You liberals appease the enemy and claim we are making the country unsafe? Now that is funny. Ever hear the saying "Appeasing the aggressor only makes the aggressor more aggressive." ??? Maybe you should think about that one. I'll go have my 7UP now. Maybe you should have an extra glass of cool-aid. Might wake you up and help you learn something.

 

[BrownShark]

Well then, answer the question she posed.
'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September11,2001?

Satellite,

You are missing a few points here. No surprise. First off, lets make something clear.

These types of emails are MASS EMAILINGS generated by the RNC headquarters. They are sent out to registered republicans and then asked to forward them on if they believe in PATRIOTISM, PEACE and REVENGE.

Of course, this works with those who limit their brains to believe such nonsense.

Your post asks to have her question answered.

OK, lets do it, for your sake.

Q:'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we?

A: No. We are not. It is a fact, that IRAQ had nothing to do with ANY terrorist act previously anywhere in the world or had anything whatsoever to do with 911. THIS IS A FACT.

What you and others fail to understand after 5 years of war, is the ever changing concept behind the invasion. IRAQ was a PRE-EMTIVE war to prevent terrorism not a response to TERRORISM.

Its the way the words are used that convince some people otherwise.

The "inferences" made in these type of professional emailings are written exclusively for the purpose of making the reader lose sight of reality and play upon his or her emotions.

Q:"Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September11,2001"

A: NO. It was started by a clandestined group of Saudi Arabians and a few jordanians and egyptians.

The suggestion here is that the collective peoples of the muslim / islamic worlds conspired to harm america on 911 and this is not true.

There are over 30 million islamic peoples in the world today. Are we to believe that they ALL got together and created a plan to attack America cause thats what the Quran told them to do?

Were all the muslim basketball players in the NBA involved as well??

Please tell me no.

This type of propaganda only hurts america , not help it.

You could use any excuse to justify the IRAQ war today. Except, the excuses are running thin in IRAQ.

After 5 years, 3225 dead us soldiers, a trillion dollars spent, our equiptment wasted in the desert, countless depleted uranium bombs dumped on a country, fighting among ourselves here in the USA, hundreds of thousands of IRAQI civilians killed, millions displaced to other countries to live in tents and shacks, millions of IRAQi kids missing school or heath coverage....and the IRAQI PRESIDENT sez.....

"ITS TIME FOR THE US TO LEAVE IRAQ"

Mission accomplished??

Just yesterday, President ALmaliki told the press that he supported Barack H. Obamas Plan for withdrawal in 16 months. He said that Americas presence in IRAQ is HURTING his country, not helping.

WHAT? I though we were the good guys?

If I were the president of the USA, After hearing this, I would make the call and start withdrawing troops immediately. Let them fight it out by themselves, but we know better.

This president isnt going anywhere anytime soon, he knows better.

We know whats best for IRAQ, not the elected leadership there.

This president will get every marine and soldier killed first in order to get westernized oil companies comfortably situated in IRAQ.

He aint going anywhere.

Despite the call from the IRAQI goverment to get out, we ignore them.

Our arrogance will get our fighting men and women killed.

Just like the Russians in Afghanistan when Reagan was sending billions of dollars in military aid in his proxy war (just like iran is doing to us)

I challenge any of you to provide the email address for this email and allow me to follow it to its source.

Of course, this type of email propaganda has been forwarded hundreds of times, and to people that nobody really knows.

RNC propaganda at its best. Its all they have.

They cant stand on issues, record or success, just FEAR.

Time to listen to the realities Satellite, IRAQ wants us out and so do I.

Peace, from an American listening

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Satellite,

You are missing a few points here. No surprise. First off, lets make something clear.

These types of emails are MASS EMAILINGS generated by the RNC headquarters. They are sent out to registered republicans and then asked to forward them on if they believe in PATRIOTISM, PEACE and REVENGE.

Of course, this works with those who limit their brains to believe such nonsense.

Your post asks to have her question answered.

OK, lets do it, for your sake.

Q:'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we?

A: No. We are not. It is a fact, that IRAQ had nothing to do with ANY terrorist act previously anywhere in the world or had anything whatsoever to do with 911. THIS IS A FACT.

What you and others fail to understand after 5 years of war, is the ever changing concept behind the invasion. IRAQ was a PRE-EMTIVE war to prevent terrorism not a response to TERRORISM.

Its the way the words are used that convince some people otherwise.

The "inferences" made in these type of professional emailings are written exclusively for the purpose of making the reader lose sight of reality and play upon his or her emotions.

Q:"Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September11,2001"

A: NO. It was started by a clandestined group of Saudi Arabians and a few jordanians and egyptians.

The suggestion here is that the collective peoples of the muslim / islamic worlds conspired to harm america on 911 and this is not true.

There are over 30 million islamic peoples in the world today. Are we to believe that they ALL got together and created a plan to attack America cause thats what the Quran told them to do?

Were all the muslim basketball players in the NBA involved as well??

Please tell me no.

This type of propaganda only hurts america , not help it.

You could use any excuse to justify the IRAQ war today. Except, the excuses are running thin in IRAQ.

After 5 years, 3225 dead us soldiers, a trillion dollars spent, our equiptment wasted in the desert, countless depleted uranium bombs dumped on a country, fighting among ourselves here in the USA, hundreds of thousands of IRAQI civilians killed, millions displaced to other countries to live in tents and shacks, millions of IRAQi kids missing school or heath coverage....and the IRAQI PRESIDENT sez.....

"ITS TIME FOR THE US TO LEAVE IRAQ"

Mission accomplished??

Just yesterday, President ALmaliki told the press that he supported Barack H. Obamas Plan for withdrawal in 16 months. He said that Americas presence in IRAQ is HURTING his country, not helping.

WHAT? I though we were the good guys?

If I were the president of the USA, After hearing this, I would make the call and start withdrawing troops immediately. Let them fight it out by themselves, but we know better.

This president isnt going anywhere anytime soon, he knows better.

We know whats best for IRAQ, not the elected leadership there.

This president will get every marine and soldier killed first in order to get westernized oil companies comfortably situated in IRAQ.

He aint going anywhere.

Despite the call from the IRAQI goverment to get out, we ignore them.

Our arrogance will get our fighting men and women killed.

Just like the Russians in Afghanistan when Reagan was sending billions of dollars in military aid in his proxy war (just like iran is doing to us)

I challenge any of you to provide the email address for this email and allow me to follow it to its source.

Of course, this type of email propaganda has been forwarded hundreds of times, and to people that nobody really knows.

RNC propaganda at its best. Its all they have.

They cant stand on issues, record or success, just FEAR.

Time to listen to the realities Satellite, IRAQ wants us out and so do I.

Peace, from an American listening

Only a fool, or someone living in a cave for the past 5 years....take your pick, would say that we are not fighting a war on terror in Iraq. Whether Iraq had anything to do with 911 or not is separate discussion. But to say we aren't fighting terrorists there now is just foolish. I'd like to see what would happen if you'd spew this garbage to any of the Iraq combat vets I live near. Or the ones I work with in the reserves. You'd be corrected and set straight faster than you could say "Bush Lied!." I've heard countless stories that not only counter your propaganda and misinformation about Iraq but also makes you look like a degenerate lier. I've heard so many horror stories about what the terrorists have done over there that it just amazes me that people like you could still continue to say the crap that you say. Also makes me wonder if your kind are even talking about the same war. You keep speaking of fear tactics and emotion when it is the liberal agenda that makes a habit of using them. Those who "limit their brains" are the poor suckers that believe any of the liberal fueled anti-war propaganda and Bush hating nonsense.

 

[wkmac]

God loves you bro and so do I (in a non-homo way).

Back At Ya!

Brownshark,

I believe in giving credit where credit is due and your response to Sat.driver was a good one. I would have left out some of the personal tags myself but overall nice job.

I know and for now have to accept the more official version that Iraq was a pre-emptive war and one is not wrong in saying that based on known easily observable facts. BS's explaination in that respect was very true.

However, I do think there are other factors in play that are buried a bit deeper for one to search out that I do think in time as a larger view of history "could" prove to show Iraq in another light. In this I want again point out the 20th century founder of American Global Democracy and as such Global empire who said in 1907'

"Since trade ignores national boundaries and the manufacturer insists on having the world as a market, the flag of his nation must follow him, and the doors of the nations which are closed must be battered down…Concessions obtained by financiers must be safeguarded by ministers of state, even if the sovereignty of unwilling nations be outraged in the process. Colonies must be obtained or planted, in order that no useful corner of the world may be overlooked or left unused"

Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the US from 1913-1921

Another quote:

He developed a program of progressive reform and asserted international leadership in building a new world order. In 1917 he proclaimed American entrance into World War I a crusade to make the world "safe for democracy."

The source for that one is the White house itself!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/ww28.html

Fast forward to the 1990's and one of the present day icons of republican conservatism, Newt Gingrich who in the Washington Post, 1/3/1995' said:

"I have an enormous personal ambition. I want to shift the entire planet. And I am doing it."

For those of you who are illusioned that the Republican party is all about the nuclear family and christian values, you'd do well to understand Alvin and Heidi Toffler and their ideas surrounding what is called "The Third Wave."

http://www.apfn.org/THEWINDS/1997/03/newt_gingrich.html

What else has Mr. Gingrich said that seems lost in the daily lazy political process of people who refuse to vett issues beyond the milktoast of the mass media of Operation Mockingbird that has a new master beyond the CIA.

Gingrich revealed to Congress:



"For a long time, I have been friends with Alvin and Heidi Toffler, the authors of Future Shock and The Third Way."

"I first began working with the Tofflers in the early 1970's on a concept called anticipatory democracy. I was then a young assistant professor at West Georgia State College, and I was fascinated with the intersection of history and the future which is the essence of politics and government at its best."

"For twenty years we [who’s we?] have worked to develop a future-conscious politics and popular understanding that would make it easier for America to make the transition from the Second Wave civilization [the one our Founders gave us] - which is clearly dying - to the emerging, but in many ways undefined Third Wave civilization [Alvin Toffler’s Centrist Utopia]."

"The process has been more frustrating and the progress much slower than I would have guessed two decades ago. Yet despite the frustrations, the development of a Third Wave political and governmental system is so central to the future of freedom and the future of America that it must be undertaken."

Speaking of his Contract With America:

"The core of our Contract," and the solution for those "trying to figure out how to put me in a box," he said, could be found in a book by futurist Alvin Toffler called "The Third Way;" to which he added: "I am a conservative futurist ."

source for above:
http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0701thirdwayp3.htm
Article is entitled:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Gingrich, Toffler, and Gore: A peculiar trio [/FONT]
You so-called liberal democrats are not left out of this mix either by any stretch.

What is the Third Wave?

You might want to know what the people who drive American politics are really thinking about over the longterm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave_(book)#Key_Characteristics_Of_The_Third_Wave_Society

Wilson didn't start global empire as history is loaded with men and nations who desired and worked for such power. Wilson just understood how America could be used in a way to benefit an elitest society and now that elitism exists in another framework but with the same desire to set the global table as they see fit and in affect forcing us through complusion to go along and pay for it all with our own sweat equity.

Iraq and the Middle East are not the equation, it is a smaller part of the larger one that we've not tuned ourselves in to seeing what it really is to begin with. This whole thing reminds me ofthe scene in the movie Contract when the blind scientist first returned to the Large Array in Mexico as people were staring at a TV screen covered in static snow. At some point he exclaimed, "There's a lot more here folks!"

How so true that statement is!



Funny, in the 1970's and early 1980's conservatives (democrat and republican) fought tooth and nail against the so-called New World Order but today, so-called republican conservatives make the best soldiers and advocates for the NWO. Seems that old adage of Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely is proven once again!