warning letter/response from union?

[abc123]

Hello, I was given a warning letter about a month ago for being a few minutes late a few times. I was not happy about this but understood that UPS had every right to do so and now I just come 10-15 minutes early so that I wont risk being late. Today I got a letter in the mail from the union saying this:

"Dear so and so;

This is to officially inform you that Teamster Local 776 does not agree with the allegations and conclusions set forth on the above-mentioned employee(me) as contained in your letter captioned above.

Until such time as an impartial hearing is conducted and the facts of the case are satisfactorily established, the protest of the Local Union will stand in this matter.

Sincerely,

Business Agent"

I was CC'd on this. I didn't grieve the warning letter and was wondering what exactly this letter means. Thanks for any and all help!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

It means the Union is grieving the letter for you. The problem with a warning letter is that it is the third step in progressive discipline (talk with, verbal warning, warning letter, suspension, termination) so to have this in your file and if you were to be late again means the next step could be suspension. Let the union do their job--they are only looking after your best interests (and your wallet--oops--didn't mean to type that).

 

[browndevil]

It means the Union is grieving the letter for you. The problem with a warning letter is that it is the third step in progressive discipline (talk with, verbal warning, warning letter, suspension, termination) so to have this in your file and if you were to be late again means the next step could be suspension. Let the union do their job--they are only looking after your best interests (and your wallet--oops--didn't mean to type that).

Great advice Upstate! And to all.This is why it's important to let the union do their jobs for the reason Upstate just laid out

 

[tieguy]

It means the Union is grieving the letter for you. The problem with a warning letter is that it is the third step in progressive discipline (talk with, verbal warning, warning letter, suspension, termination) so to have this in your file and if you were to be late again means the next step could be suspension. Let the union do their job--they are only looking after your best interests (and your wallet--oops--didn't mean to type that).

The intent of the warning letter was to get him to change his behaviour. He changed his behaviour. The union should not have involved theirselves in this manner.

 

[grgrcr88]

All warning letters are protested, if not it means you agree with the discipline and that makes it awfully hard to argue the next time you get discipline(suspension), that you don't agree with it., this time. The company expects a grievance on all discipline and if you do not file it your making it easy for them. Your lucky the local filed it for you. In the central they changed that in the last contract. All grievances must be filed by the grievant within 10 days for discipline or it sticks! That means if you get a pending suspension and do not grieve it, the company can suspend you for however long they see fit. Same for pending term. If not grieved within 10 days your gone. With no recorse!! ALWAYS GRIEVE EVERY DISCIPLINE LETTER!!!!!

 

[browndevil]

The intent of the warning letter was to get him to change his behaviour. He changed his behaviour. The union should not have involved theirselves in this manner.

This is exactly what the union should be doing. Yes the OP changed his behavior and appears to be a decent employee why wouldn't a talk with suffice "hey abc123 i need talk to you before you leave, it is imparative to our customers that you arrive to work on time" Why play hardball and possibly create driver apathy?

 

[Catatonic]

All warning letters are protested, if not it means you agree with the discipline and that makes it awfully hard to argue the next time you get discipline(suspension), that you don't agree with it., this time. The company expects a grievance on all discipline and if you do not file it your making it easy for them. Your lucky the local filed it for you. In the central they changed that in the last contract. All grievances must be filed by the grievant within 10 days for discipline or it sticks! That means if you get a pending suspension and do not grieve it, the company can suspend you for however long they see fit. Same for pending term. If not grieved within 10 days your gone. With no recorse!! ALWAYS GRIEVE EVERY DISCIPLINE LETTER!!!!!

Seems reasonable if that is in the terms and conditions of the contract.
If either party of a contract fails to exercise their prerogatives and enforce the contract, they then forfeit it.
Simple due diligence.

 

[abc123]

Thanks for the responses, just had a quick question. Does the "talk-with" require a steward to be there? I had a "meeting" or whatever with the full-time sup, a steward and about 4 other employees who were also late. Not sure if that was the talk with or the verbal warning. Also, I'm part-time working in the hub.

 

[browndevil]

Thanks for the responses, just had a quick question. Does the "talk-with" require a steward to be there? I had a "meeting" or whatever with the full-time sup, a steward and about 4 other employees who were also late. Not sure if that was the talk with or the verbal warning. Also, I'm part-time working in the hub.

Yes the steward should be present and it appears your manager did the correct thing by pulling you aside. But you said you got a warning letter? Did he mention that in your "meeting"?

 

[abc123]

Yes the steward should be present and it appears your manager did the correct thing by pulling you aside. But you said you got a warning letter? Did he mention that in your "meeting"?

It went like this. Day 1, I was 3 minutes late a long with 3-4 other employees. Full time sup sees this and tells us all to hold on for a minute. He goes and gets the steward and tells us that this was our official warning (I believe he used that word). Then a few weeks later, I was 7 minutes late and he sees me and goes and gets the steward again. He tells me I'll be getting a Warning Letter. I should note he said that it was something I couldn't grieve, which I didn't think sounded correct, but I wasn't planning on grieving it anyways, because I was late and those were the facts.

Anyways, I get the letter in the mail a week later and then another week later I get the above letter from the Teamsters.

 

[bigblu 2 you]

The intent of the warning letter was to get him to change his behaviour. He changed his behaviour. The union should not have involved theirselves in this manner.

we pay them to be involved,hopefully they will.

 

[22.34life]

It went like this. Day 1, I was 3 minutes late a long with 3-4 other employees. Full time sup sees this and tells us all to hold on for a minute. He goes and gets the steward and tells us that this was our official warning (I believe he used that word). Then a few weeks later, I was 7 minutes late and he sees me and goes and gets the steward again. He tells me I'll be getting a Warning Letter. I should note he said that it was something I couldn't grieve, which I didn't think sounded correct, but I wasn't planning on grieving it anyways, because I was late and those were the facts.

Anyways, I get the letter in the mail a week later and then another week later I get the above letter from the Teamsters.

man i cant believe he gave you a warning letter for coming in a few minutes late twice.look you should be on time to work but he should be a little more resonable,it is uncommon for a friend/t sup in a p/t hub operation to follow the dicipline process so quickly.i cant believe your local protested this warning letter for you and thats a good thing that means they are doing their job.let me ask you did your union steward argue any of this or did he just nod like a bobble head,do you have an atendance problem because lates and call ins fall under the same thing,attendance.

 

[brown_trousers]

It sounds like UPS may have skipped through the disciplinary progression to quick.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

It does appear as though they skipped the talk with and went right to the verbal warning and then to the written warning. I would think that the verbal should have corrected the behavior but it sounds like the written may have done it. I think the union will use the fact that there was no talk with to get the letter removed from your file.

 

[tieguy]

This is exactly what the union should be doing. Yes the OP changed his behavior and appears to be a decent employee why wouldn't a talk with suffice "hey abc123 i need talk to you before you leave, it is imparative to our customers that you arrive to work on time" Why play hardball and possibly create driver apathy?

See I always thought the union was supposed to be a democracy of representation. If so then the OP should be able to decide whether he needs to change his behaviour or protest the letter.

if the union protests all letters then those that the recipient feels should be protested get lost in the mix.

Another perspective may be that it often pisses you guys off when some functions of the company fight all grievances and dead lock them yet here you apparently have a union local doing the same thing with all company action and yet you guys support it.

Ultimately I think the unions purpose in life should not only be to represent them when they need the help but to also guide them on being good employees that represent union labor well. Arguing all warning letters is an effort to avoid acknowledging poor labor practices. If the union is going to automatically grieve every warning letter and make no effort to help the individual change his behavior then why waste time with the warning letter. Lets go straight to the discharge and save time.

 

[tieguy]

It does appear as though they skipped the talk with and went right to the verbal warning and then to the written warning. I would think that the verbal should have corrected the behavior but it sounds like the written may have done it. I think the union will use the fact that there was no talk with to get the letter removed from your file.

the union does not recognize talk withs and verbal warnings as discipline. to them the warning letter is the first official step. Though they will try to talk you down below that first step.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

the union does not recognize talk withs and verbal warnings as discipline. to them the warning letter is the first official step. Though they will try to talk you down below that first step.

As you can tell I am not that familiar with progressive discipline.

 

[CustomerConcern]

the union does not recognize talk withs and verbal warnings as discipline. to them the warning letter is the first official step. Though they will try to talk you down below that first step.

BS, I am telling you right now, if you come to me to sign off on a warning letter you had better damn show me proof of a TW and I am gonna ask my guy/gal if they ever got verbal warning by you for this particular problem.

 

[tieguy]

As you can tell I am not that familiar with progressive discipline.

thats not a bad thing.

 

[over9five]

As you can tell I am not that familiar with progressive discipline.

You've been here 20 years and you don't know how progressive discipline works.....???