*********** warning letters

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by soberups, Jul 11, 2009.

  1. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown KoolAid

    Two of the most bullsh$% warning letters I have ever seen were issued last week on my center.

    One guy got a warning letter for "failure to maintain demonstrated performance". He is a good employee whose only crime was to get fuc$%ed over on his last "timestudy".

    He had 2 OJS rides that averaged out to 12.59 SPORH with good methods and good work pace documented by the supervisor. Those good methods and pace still caused him to be an hour overallowed.

    The following week, without supervision, he averaged 11.73 SPORH and was issued the warning letter....over a difference of .86 SPORH. This is a drop in SPORH of only 6.83% which is statistically insignificant and well within an expected range over a period of time. The company is looking for an overallowed hour that does not exist in the real world so rather than adressing the flawed study they write the guy up instead.


    The second BS warning letter was for "failure to properly document personal time."

    This employee needed to use the restroom so he used his break time to drive to one. Using data collected via Telematics, it was determined that the elapsed amount of time taken from the time he broke trace until the time he got back on trace was 17.8 minutes rather than the 15 minutes he recorded in the DIAD. So, over a discrepancy of approximately 165 seconds, he was issued a warning letter.

    Remember how we were told that the primary function of Telematics was to "improve our safety" and "enhance vehicle maintainence"? What a load of bullsh%$. Telematics serves one purpose; giving desk-bound supervisors the ability to micromanage and harass employees without ever having to leave the comfort of an air-conditioned office.

    We have an entire generation of management people who are frightened for their jobs due to the loss in volume. Since they have nothing meaningful or relevant to do, they justify their own continued existence by generating reams of meaningless reports and warning letters to create the illusion of being important.

    Its not what you accomplish that gets you promoted in UPS management; its how good you look on paper pretending to accomplish it.
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  2. ups1990

    ups1990 Active Member

    Re: ******** warning letters

    These two offenses, if they are really "offenses" sound very petty at best. Are the two drivers on managements hit list. Why did it go to a warning letter and not a verbal?

    Please, let us know how this turns out.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  3. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Re: ******* warning letters

    if they were members of the safety committee we would not have heard a peep out of sober.:happy-very:
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  4. TheDick

    TheDick Member

    Re: ******** warning letters

    My POS CM told us that the PCM is the verbal warning when it comes to anything new or old they tell u to do.

    And yes--petty is the word.
    If the driver did his absolute best methods that day how can he live up to those numbers everyday for 30years?

    Demonstrated performance: I think you could ODS the center whenever construction crews work on the street, somebody makes a left turn nfront of you,waiting at red lights,car accident, help an old lady cross the street, street sweeper, broke trace for too much air, the list goes on and on--use your imagination and TXT the building all the reasons real or imagined for why you are .86 SPORH slower. If this guys road SUP really cared about his employee he'd help him fix the issue. Dont do any unnecessary backing ever again. Pull out the handtruck for 40lb pkgs and over. And then ODS center about it. They cant delete the messgs from UPS servers so they'll serve as documentation when they take you to the carpet.

    The restroom thing can be solved by using a DR bag and havin TP on the car so at the end of the day u can show the on-road SUP that you are nolonger breaking trace and heres the proof!(make sure it has number two in the bag). \

    Apologies for the rant. I got bumped off my route Fri and watched 2 employees go at it to the point the cops came including the CHP to take witness statements. We're probably gonna all have to take sensitivity classes together. Man and thing are already hard enough.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  5. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown KoolAid

    Re: ****** warning letters

    If they were members of the safety committee they would have been sitting in the building coloring posters or grading papers.:happy-very:
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  6. farmerbrown

    farmerbrown New Member

    Re: ******* warning letters

    Qustion for you Tie. Do you really believe that this type of employee follow up is at all productive? My experience has been that pissed off employees slow down and sabotage the entire operation if manager pettiness is allowed to continue. I also have noticed an increase in warning letters recently. Fortunately my sup is a great guy and takes most of the heat rounds for us. I wish management would remember that there are more of us than them. The latest production push is uncomfortable (while perhaps necessary, but no one can really explain why) and I am disturbed by the lack of concern shown to the employees. So, yes or no Tie. Do you support this current whip cracking?
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  7. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown KoolAid

    Re: ********* warning letters

    Issuing a warning letter creates a paper trail and creates the illusion that the supervisor issuing it is actually doing something productive with his time.

    I have already discussed it with our BA. The letters aren't worth the paper they are written on. "Failure to maintain demonstrated performance" is not grounds for suspension or termination per the contract. To fire him they would have to charge him with stealing time; it would never be upheld anyway; and as part of that process my BA would require the company to provide records showing the exact weight of every package picked up and delivered on the days in question, the exact amount of time spent at every stoplight, the exact length of each walk for each pickup and delivery, the exact amount of time spent waiting for each elevator, the exact number of stairs walked up and down on each day, ec. etc. etc.

    The sad part is that they are accomplishing nothing but to piss off a guy who is truly a decent employee....many years of safe driving, never been on comp, always on time, good attitude etc. And when our management team resorts to spewing out garbage like this it becomes very difficult to take anything they say from that point on seriously.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  8. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    Re: ******* warning letters

    I will be interested when one of these demonstrated performance issues has to go to panel. It has started here and warning letters are being given out, but that's about all (well, they threaten a lot too). Warning letters mean nothing unless the next step is taken. .86 will never stand at a panel IMO, especially if the route is changing from day to day
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  9. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Re: ******* warning letters

    I think I'm along for the ride on this one until I retire.

    When I was a newly promoted supervisor my workgroup had been beaten into submission with the work as directed language. It took me a long time to overcome that management style and rebuild the teamwork.

    We now appear to be headed back to that style of management in many buildings and centers.

    We are micromanaged to death with reports that tell our company leaders everything we do including what we had for breakfast.

    Do I think this style of management is effective. In the short term yes in the long run no.

    What you see is probably a CM who has someone higher up breathing down his neck and expecting him to hold his people accountable.

    Some CM's are strong enough to hold to what they believe in some will fold and do as they are instructed.

    With that said the OJS ride is a big committment on the center teams part. If they do the three day OJS ride then you better live up to the results of that direct supervision.

    Otherwise why bother doing the OJS ride. What did you think they would do with the OJS ride results. Simply forget about them?
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  10. Pump Up The Volume

    Pump Up The Volume New Member

    The sad part is that they are accomplishing nothing but to piss off a guy who is truly a decent employee....


    There's got to be something more. Just saying in my experience management picks and chooses the people to make an example of, those to hunt or hound, and those just because they were told to by superiors.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  11. Hangingon

    Hangingon New Member

    Re: ******* warning letters


    If you need to use the restroom, and there are no facilities available I thought you could travel to the closest one w/o using personal time? I refuse to ask a resi customer if i can enter their house and use theirs even though some of my sups have suggested that in the past.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  12. Raw

    Raw Raw Member

    Re: ****** warning letters

    never mind
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  13. farmerbrown

    farmerbrown New Member

    Re: ******* warning letters

    Thanks for the skinny Tie. I've long suspected that you are a pretty decent sort of fellow. How many times have you thought about taking a job where management and employees have something other than an adversarial relationship?
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  14. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Well-Known Member

    Re: ***** warning letters

    Other than the Vatican, I cannot think of a single company that fits that description.
  15. Big Babooba

    Big Babooba Well-Known Member

    Re: ********warning letters

    The "facilities" on my route consist of trees and bushes. (Tip - maple leaves are softer than oak leaves):wink2:
  16. farmerbrown

    farmerbrown New Member

    Yes and you would still be around a bunch of guys wearing brown.
  17. Re: ******* warning letters

    I know that in so cal we can not help a customer with the box past the front door due to the fact that can say you did something that you did not do and get fired or lawsuit for ups we can not go past the door
  18. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Re: ******* warning letters

    We have the exact same termination going on right now. 2nd low level on Monday, Panel on Thursday. Will keep everyone informed.
  19. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Member Troll

    Lets keep this debate as simple as possible. First, what does the contract say about the telematics information involved in this case????

    Well, in Article 37 of the National Master agreement, the very last sentence in section 1 (d) covers this issue.

    It reads:
    "No employee shall be disciplined for exceeding personal time based on Data recieved from the DIAD/IVIS or other information technology."

    Pretty cut and dried to say the least. This is why you must ALL learn the rights afforded to you by this contract.

    But wait, those like Tiedguy will say that Article 6 says the company can use the information for discipline...

    This would be true but except for a little clause in Article 2 of the National Master that says this:

    "..Except where specifically stated otherwise in the Master Agreement, nothing in this Master Agreement shall deprive any employee of any superior benefit contained in their supplement, rider or addendum."

    So, to explain it, its simple. Article 37 language cancels out article 6 language because its a SUPERIOR benefit to the employee.

    Any and all information recieved by DIAD CANNOT be used for discipline for exceeding personal time. The information is useless.

    A grievance should be filed for the case involving the bathroom break considered to be exceeding personal time as the data used for establishing this is NULL and VOID.

    There are three things to remember when dealing with telematics and the company.

    1) we are innocent until proven guilty, not GUILTY until we prove ourselves innocent.

    2) The data recieved or recorded minutes of downtime cannot be used for discipline.

    3) Employees have the right to superior language anywhere in the contract in order to protect themselves.

    Use your rights, defend yourselves properly.
    • Like Like x 2
  20. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Re: ******* warning letters

    I really enjoy my job and I really don't think I'm at an adversarial relationship that much. My experience is most people want to come to work without the us versus them thing going on. My experience is most people take pride in the job they do and want to do a good job. Maybe I'm in some kind of vacuum but my philosophy seems to work for me.
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