*********** warning letters

[soberups]

In my local, warning letters are automatically "disputed" but not grieved. The merits of the letter itself are not addressed until the next step occurs and the employee is given a suspension letter. Then we go back and determine if the initial warning letter itself was any good, if not then the suspension is nullified.

 

[Raw]

A warning letter and charged accident to an over 20 year safe driver for clipping and cracking the mirror of pkg. car next to him with his door handle that stuck out 1/2 inch after going straight forward 6 inches because pkg. cars were parked too close.....

 

[thelus]

Re: ******* warning letters

Qustion for ? My experience has been that pissed off employees slow down and sabotage the entire operation if manager pettiness is allowed to continue.

Obvious guy is Obvious. all i can say is there is a reason why they call it going postal. I am still waiting for that headline in the news. a ups driver goes postal on his route.

 

[cino321]

Re: ******* warning letters

The solution that I have always used....is to "save" about 5 minutes of one of my breaks as "floating time" to compensate for the times when I use the bathroom...or make a 2 minute cell phone call....or buy a soda from a convenience store I'm delivering at. I'm being fair to UPS, I'm not stealing time, and I'm meeting my personal needs while remaining productive.

Honestly, give me a break. UPS hired me knowing darn well I am going to have to relieve myself several times throughout the day.

I refuse to save any time off my break for natural body functions.

What's next? Should I save time from my break just in case it took me longer to get a signature from on of my resis because they were taking a dump and couldn't come to the door in time?

I think with regard to bathroom breaks or keeping yourself hydrated, a little past practice should come into play.

 

[Just Numbers]

Everyone is getting so upset and understandable. But, I for one would like to see the other side of the coin also to justify me being upset. The guy driving and exceeding break time gets a warning letter. Has this consistently happened before. Is there any documentation previous relating to this, is there anywhere closer to go?...see where I'm heading with this. The other driver was stated to be a good employee. What constitues a good employee? Does he/she show up for work on time every day, that constitutes a good employee but, maybe that employee sucks as a driver. Lets say this driver gets 4 wks vacation and consistently .86 sporh under the norm....this isn't rocket science....86sporh x 9.0 hrs (avg) x 5 days a week x 48 weeks=1857 stops per year. 1857/12.59 (avg demonstrated) = 147 excess hrs x $42hr(o/t) = $6174.00 and you wonder why mgmt is getting upset and concerned. Then again both letters might be BS but, before ranting and raving we need to look at both sides of these coins before passing judgement.

 

[toonertoo]

Everyone is getting so upset and understandable. But, I for one would like to see the other side of the coin also to justify me being upset. The guy driving and exceeding break time gets a warning letter. Has this consistently happened before. Is there any documentation previous relating to this, is there anywhere closer to go?...see where I'm heading with this. The other driver was stated to be a good employee. What constitues a good employee? Does he/she show up for work on time every day, that constitutes a good employee but, maybe that employee sucks as a driver. Lets say this driver gets 4 wks vacation and consistently .86 sporh under the norm....this isn't rocket science....86sporh x 9.0 hrs (avg) x 5 days a week x 48 weeks=1857 stops per year. 1857/12.59 (avg demonstrated) = 147 excess hrs x $42hr(o/t) = $6174.00 and you wonder why mgmt is getting upset and concerned. Then again both letters might be BS but, before ranting and raving we need to look at both sides of these coins before passing judgement.

I agree we need to look at both sides. But is .86 or later justified if the studies are decades old. My team says yeah they are old but thats what we have to abide by, that isnt fair.

 

[Mike23]

Re: ******* warning letters

My truck is filthy, and after 4 hours of work my hands are filthy. Its company dirt on my hands and it will be washed off on company time. If UPS is so gung-ho on making you take your personal time in the truck without breaking trace, then they need to equip each vehicle with a portable toilet and some sort of hand-washing apparatus. Otherwise, they can pay us to drive a few blocks to find a public restroom and a clean place to sit and eat.

After 4 hours? Are you SURE you're not working at a desk? JK! I know what you mean

Also you could always use the rubbing alcohol pads in your first aid kit to wash your hands, lol, it's not TECHNICALLY stealing from the company because the pads are there to kill germs and that's what you're doing washing your hands with them. Then just write it up in the DVIR. I wouldn't do it, I'd rather go to a fast food joint to do it of course

 

[dilligaf]

What if the warning letter is 100% justified--you screwed up and got caught--do you still file?

My warning letter that I got a couple of months ago (backing accident) was justified. As much as I hated getting it, for doing something so stupid, I deserved it. I didn't say a thing, it was what it was. In this case all I could do was suck it up and renew my effort to recover my safety record. I actually still got my 3 yr safety award in May.

 

[UPS Lifer]

It is interesting to note that some posters automatically go gunning for a fight. It is us vs them ..."defend yourself!". WOW!

My God! Are you folks that worried you are going to lose your job every step of your day?

As for the .86 SPORH decrease.... if a supervisor gets on the car and the SPORH is at or better than "Best Demonstrated" every time and only when the driver is by his/herself is it lower, than the company is making a case for dismissal. It will happen. It is a matter of time.

Most employees are really trying to do their best every day, but if you are that one or two employees who spit in the company's face every chance you get .... your days are numbered.

If you don't believe this... you are probably one of those "one or two"! LOL!

Not one of these issues are new to UPS. Employees have lost their jobs because of performance issues. The will eventually fall because of "failure to follow proper procedures or methods". Granted, it may take more than one "fight" but eventually they will be separated from UPS.

Again the bathroom issue is not new to UPS. You may win the battle but you will eventually lose the war. Part of "break" is going to the bathroom. Unless you can prove you have a medical condition you are probably barking up the wrong tree. I can tell you that no reasonable arbitrator will side with you on that one without an extremely good reason why you can't "go" on your break or personal time.

Be very careful of driving off trace to go to the bathroom. You are giving the company ammunition because additional miles adds to your planned day. If the company can prove there was a perfectly legitimate rest facility closer to where you broke trace you could lose your job for stealing time.

I have NEVER seen the company go after a "good employee". I am sure if I was able to investigate the case that Soberups is referring to I would be able to get to the truth.

The one of the keys to the success of this company is the collective bargaining system that has been maintained with a delicate balance over the years. The grievance machinery is in place and is a well oiled machine.

You can't grieve a warning letter but you can grieve the next step. I have a tremendous amount of confidence in the system. Instead of getting your panties in a bunch over every little issue, keep a good line of communication open and look for understanding.

OK - I will get off the soap box ...for now!

 

[dilligaf]

Lifer,
Speaking strictly for myself, yes I worry (nearly) every single day about losing my job. It was worse when I started driving. It has gotten better with a change in mgt. Our on rd sup recently left (you know who I am talking about). He wasn't so much of the problem as others have been but.......................

Since my 3 day I have made a serious attempt at paying attention to how differently I work without a sup onboard as compared to when he was onboard. I have to admit that it was different. I have tried my best to recify that situation.

I don't agree with you (mostly) in the bathroom and break issue. Yes, absolutely I use the bathroom on every break and lunch I take. If I have to go during 'work time' I break off and go to the safest most convenient place. If it is necessary I will stop along a deserted road, meaning if I am miles away from a bathroom. And we have a few rtes where this may be necessary. I also plan ahead, I know the rtes well enough to know when and where to plan ahead, and stop before I need to. I do not agree that this time should be part of my break time. I do not include this in my break time. The need to stop and go pee is a necessity. The company needs to acknowledge this. Waiting to go, in many cases, for hours at a time is a detriment to our health. If you care to have further explanation of this please PM me.

The problem with the delicate balance in our collective bargaining system is that it is taken advantage of. Note: I did not point a finger at any one particular entity that takes advantage of the system. My tendency would be to point a finger at the company as mgt does have an advantage over us. We can't fire them. They can fire us. But that does not negate the fact that there are bargaining units (for the lack of a better term to cover all of us) that do take advantage of the system. I could give you a prime example but will not do so in here. The person I am refering to deserved to and should have stayed fired.

The grievance machinery is well oiled, unfortunately there are many that have greasy palms from the well oiled machine, on both sides. I have little confidence in the process as I have been thrown under the big brown truck too many times. Of course, this was done by my BA. As far as the communication................... I can't communicate with those who are not willing to listen. Think Bus. Mgr. He will only communicate so far as to make his point and mine can go to the devil as far as he is concerned. I can say that the sup that is filling in at this point in time is, by far, easier to deal with.

Trusting the the company and the system comes very hard for me. I have been burned tooooo many times. To put it simply, I don't rust them, so yes, I worry, all the time, about losing my job.

 

[anonymous6]

This appears to be coming down from corporate because we just had a feeder driver "talked" to for being 3 minutes overallowed on his start work.

So what does he do from now on? He stops at the shop every night to have his brakes adjusted along with anything else he can come up with.

The company, is handling this economic slow down in it's usual negative way. By attacking the very people who built this company in the first place. it is only going to backfire ( which it usually does ) and lower moral and increase resentment.

What should UPS do? They should invite all employees to a breakfast and discuss these challenges in a positive way and invite feedback and make it sound like "We are all in this together" scenario and how we can become stonger in the long run. Speak to us like professionals and ask for our help to weather this storm.

If they would treat us like adults, just imagine what this company would become.

 

[raceanoncr]

In my local, warning letters are automatically "disputed" but not grieved. The merits of the letter itself are not addressed until the next step occurs and the employee is given a suspension letter. Then we go back and determine if the initial warning letter itself was any good, if not then the suspension is nullified.

Years ago, I was given a letter for something I don't remember now. The wording was totally ambiguous, rambling, false. The steward at the time said you can "protest" it but you can't win a grievance on a warning letter. Well, I didn't accept that. I filed for their total lack of intellegence and lack of facts.

I won, the letter was removed. What also has me chucklin is that I flunked high school English twice, yet won on my wording and provin them wrong!

Try it, sober, most of these people are not mental giants.

OK, for all of you management people, jump on me for this comment!

 

[upsgrunt]

I challenge anyone to name a company, career, job, or position where they expect you to clock out to go to the bathroom- besides UPS. Isn't this in the category of the cost of doing business?

 

[tiegirl]

Please, somebody, please tell me why our highly educated corporate office cannot see what is happening.

"We have an entire generation of management people who are frightened for their jobs due to the loss in volume. Since they have nothing meaningful or relevant to do, they justify their own continued existence by generating reams of meaningless reports and warning letters to create the illusion of being important."

"Its not what you accomplish that gets you promoted in UPS management; its how good you look on paper pretending to accomplish it."


I see this happening at my center. You could have not said this any better. What can we do about this? When you are the one on the receiving end of trumped up warning letters what can you do?

Two of the most bullsh$% warning letters I have ever seen were issued last week on my center.

One guy got a warning letter for "failure to maintain demonstrated performance". He is a good employee whose only crime was to get fuc$%ed over on his last "timestudy".

He had 2 OJS rides that averaged out to 12.59 SPORH with good methods and good work pace documented by the supervisor. Those good methods and pace still caused him to be an hour overallowed.

The following week, without supervision, he averaged 11.73 SPORH and was issued the warning letter....over a difference of .86 SPORH. This is a drop in SPORH of only 6.83% which is statistically insignificant and well within an expected range over a period of time. The company is looking for an overallowed hour that does not exist in the real world so rather than adressing the flawed study they write the guy up instead.


The second BS warning letter was for "failure to properly document personal time."

This employee needed to use the restroom so he used his break time to drive to one. Using data collected via Telematics, it was determined that the elapsed amount of time taken from the time he broke trace until the time he got back on trace was 17.8 minutes rather than the 15 minutes he recorded in the DIAD. So, over a discrepancy of approximately 165 seconds, he was issued a warning letter.

Remember how we were told that the primary function of Telematics was to "improve our safety" and "enhance vehicle maintainence"? What a load of bullsh%$. Telematics serves one purpose; giving desk-bound supervisors the ability to micromanage and harass employees without ever having to leave the comfort of an air-conditioned office.

We have an entire generation of management people who are frightened for their jobs due to the loss in volume. Since they have nothing meaningful or relevant to do, they justify their own continued existence by generating reams of meaningless reports and warning letters to create the illusion of being important.

Its not what you accomplish that gets you promoted in UPS management; its how good you look on paper pretending to accomplish it.

 

[soberups]

What can we do about this? When you are the one on the receiving end of trumped up warning letters what can you do?

First of all, you never want to lose sight of the fact that you have more job security than the person who is issuing the warning letter to you.

If they are writing BS warning letters, it is because they are scared, so they want you to be scared also.

Fearful people make stupid decisions. This is where it really helps to be aware of the contract and the disciplinary process that is spelled out within it. If you are honest, do your job to the best of your ability and as instructed...its pretty much impossible for them to fire you.

And as hard as it might seem, try not to take that warning letter personally. Try to remember that the person who is handing it to you isnt really responsible for it. More often than not, the supervisor or manager that you deal with is nothing more than a scared little puppet who has no real authority to make decisions on his own. He is simply doing what he must do to survive. Try not to blame the messenger.

 

[ixtab]

Two of the most bullsh$% warning letters I have ever seen were issued last week on my center.

One guy got a warning letter for "failure to maintain demonstrated performance". He is a good employee whose only crime was to get fuc$%ed over on his last "timestudy".

He had 2 OJS rides that averaged out to 12.59 SPORH with good methods and good work pace documented by the supervisor. Those good methods and pace still caused him to be an hour overallowed.

The following week, without supervision, he averaged 11.73 SPORH and was issued the warning letter....over a difference of .86 SPORH. This is a drop in SPORH of only 6.83% which is statistically insignificant and well within an expected range over a period of time. The company is looking for an overallowed hour that does not exist in the real world so rather than adressing the flawed study they write the guy up instead.

Should've filed a greivance right from the start - a lock-in ride MUST be 3 days - not 2. A greivance would've gotten this SPORH thrown out and that would've been it for this year. (They can only try to lock you in once a year.)

 

[soberups]

Should've filed a greivance right from the start - a lock-in ride MUST be 3 days - not 2. A greivance would've gotten this SPORH thrown out and that would've been it for this year. (They can only try to lock you in once a year.)

There is no such thing as a "lock-in" ride in the contract.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

Telematics/GPS doesn't concern me as a feeder driver (for now at least) but I knew when I first heard of it there was going to be trouble with it's implementation.

When I was a package car driver, if I wanted to get a drink, go to the bathroom, talk to a customer I liked, buy lottery tickets, whatever...if it made me fall behind a bit I would run my ass off to catch up. I had housing developments that if I really poured it on I could do around 30+ stops per hour. There was never a problem.

But now, with all this technology, you have to be an automaton now. Because if you do not do the route exactly the way they want you to, no matter if you have always been a safe, consistent driver, they might come after you.

When I saw that they were going to take more and more freedom of how we do our jobs away, I got out of package. I always felt if I was giving you what you expect out of me, performance-wise, I shouldn't be micro-managed.

This appears to be coming down from corporate because we just had a feeder driver "talked" to for being 3 minutes overallowed on his start work.

So what does he do from now on? He stops at the shop every night to have his brakes adjusted along with anything else he can come up with.

They give you on average 18 minutes to start work, find your tractor, pre-trip it, go to your trailer, properly couple to it, pre-trip it, make sure that it is safe to pull it from the door by verifying with sup, close the doors, drive to the gate, have the guard seal the trailer, call out the trailer, and then leave. 18 minutes. Only a completely overzealous manager tries to hold you to that.

If they get too heavy handed in feeders, I will stop using my cell phone on the job for work and you can believe I will not leave the property if even a license plate light is out in the middle of the day.

I know, I know, I am not supposed to use my phone and I should run to the shop for every little thing. But the thing is, I treat UPS like I want them to treat me...by not sweating the little things (As long as the little things don't involve safety. Safety should never be compromised). We should be working as a team.

If we all just want to ball bust each other, our competition will be ready to roll right over us.

 

[tiegirl]

Question ******** warning letters

What is "managements hit list"? How does one make it to this list?

These two offenses, if they are really "offenses" sound very petty at best. Are the two drivers on managements hit list. Why did it go to a warning letter and not a verbal?

Please, let us know how this turns out.

 

[tiegirl]

Question ******** warning letters

?