We have to change the way they think of the hourly employee.

[bbsam]

Look at it from his point of view HH.
if he's a troll he's just doing what a troll does.
If he's a plant he's doing his job.
If he is a ground contractor, and we can pull off some miracle he has much to lose. His drivers would want more immediately if we were to unionize. This talk concerns him and his family too.

I have next to nothing to lose. If you pull off your miracle and as you suggest there is an immediate backlash from Ground drivers, FDX will obviously know about the sudden increase in labor market cost. It is a matter of a two week process to enter into renegotiation and address such concerns.

 

[overflowed]

I have next to nothing to lose. If you pull off your miracle and as you suggest there is an immediate backlash from Ground drivers, FDX will obviously know about the sudden increase in labor market cost. It is a matter of a two week process to enter into renegotiation and address such concerns.

If it were to happen . Do you think fdx would just give you more money so you could pay your boys more? I highly doubt it. You always talk like fdx does whatever BBSAM wants. This I know for certainty is not true. I wasn't attacking you by that post by the way. What makes you think that IF this happens BBSAM can just go to the company and say "Hey, my drivers want more money." Fdx would just say that's nice pay them more if you feel that way.

 

[bbsam]

If it were to happen . Do you think fdx would just give you more money so you could pay your boys more? I highly doubt it. You always talk like fdx does whatever BBSAM wants. This I know for certainty is not true. I wasn't attacking you by that post by the way. What makes you think that IF this happens BBSAM can just go to the company and say "Hey, my drivers want more money." Fdx would just say that's nice pay them more if you feel that way.

I don't know why you doubt it except if you don't understand the ISP model. FDX wants the model to succeed. For it to succeed, they need to be aware of different market forces affecting the ISP's and their businesses. If, for instance, small businesses were suddenly hit with a 8% tax increase, FDX would be very quick to pony up the money. If interest rates jumped to 12% across the lending spectrum, FDX would open up the coffers. If labor rates suddenly rose 15%, and much of that had to do with what was happening in their own back yard, they would quickly respond to market forces. All it requires is a "Request for Renegotiation" which is a short written explanation of why the ISP needs to restructure the agreement due to financial loss of business or sudden increase in expenses out of their own control.

Think about it this way. If FDX has 10,000 pissed off and ready to walk off the job because it isn't worth it anymore, they have a serious problem. If they have 2500 contractors and ISP's ready to walk and declare bankruptcy, it's nearly the death of an opco.

 

[vantexan]

I don't know why you doubt it except if you don't understand the ISP model. FDX wants the model to succeed. For it to succeed, they need to be aware of different market forces affecting the ISP's and their businesses. If, for instance, small businesses were suddenly hit with a 8% tax increase, FDX would be very quick to pony up the money. If interest rates jumped to 12% across the lending spectrum, FDX would open up the coffers. If labor rates suddenly rose 15%, and much of that had to do with what was happening in their own back yard, they would quickly respond to market forces. All it requires is a "Request for Renegotiation" which is a short written explanation of why the ISP needs to restructure the agreement due to financial loss of business or sudden increase in expenses out of their own control.

Think about it this way. If FDX has 10,000 pissed off and ready to walk off the job because it isn't worth it anymore, they have a serious problem. If they have 2500 contractors and ISP's ready to walk and declare bankruptcy, it's nearly the death of an opco.

Which is exactly why as FedEx becomes more profitable most of the money they'll spend to keep workers happy will go to Ground, with Express continuing to be squeezed dry. And why Express needs representation. YOU are your drivers' representation.

 

[bbsam]

Which is exactly why as FedEx becomes more profitable most of the money they'll spend to keep workers happy will go to Ground, with Express continuing to be squeezed dry. And why Express needs representation. YOU are your drivers' representation.

True enough. That's why I keep explaining that when I caution against reckless organization, I am not against it overall. It is not going to spell my financial ruin. I'll simply pass on whatever increased cost to the customer, in this case FDX.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Which is exactly why as FedEx becomes more profitable most of the money they'll spend to keep workers happy will go to Ground, with Express continuing to be squeezed dry. And why Express needs representation. YOU are your drivers' representation.

True enough. That's why I keep explaining that when I caution against reckless organization, I am not against it overall. It is not going to spell my financial ruin. I'll simply pass on whatever increased cost to the customer, in this case FDX.

What a load of bs.

 

[bbsam]

What a load of bs.

so you keep saying...with nothing to back it up. You don't have to believe me for it all to remain true.

 

[MAKAVELI]

What a load of bs.

so you keep saying...with nothing to back it up. You don't have to believe me for it all to remain true.

I think you are full of sh it. There is nothing stopping you from paying more now. The gap between express and ground pay right now is big. Contractors and ground management have both said they do not and can not direct what ground drivers are paid. Even if FedEx was generous enough to give more to the contractors, which I would bet my house that they wouldn't. Most contractors like yourself would simply pocket the money. Another thing is to give you more money would mean less for FedEx in profits, closing the gap between express and ground.

 

[bbsam]

We all know what you think, SPH. Unfortunately for you, you are completely unable to think beyond your own preconceived notions. You have no clue where FDX is taking the company. You can't even fathom the concept that it is entirely possible that FDX is aiming to have Express drivers paid at Ground scale. But I have renegotiated with the company before so I think I have a fairly good idea of what I am saying.

 

[MAKAVELI]

We all know what you think, SPH. Unfortunately for you, you are completely unable to think beyond your own preconceived notions. You have no clue where FDX is taking the company. You can't even fathom the concept that it is entirely possible that FDX is aiming to have Express drivers paid at Ground scale. But I have renegotiated with the company before so I think I have a fairly good idea of what I am saying.

I know bs when I hear it and you sir are full of it. Yea don't organize because FedEx is just going give more money to ground. Just another pathetic tactic to try and intimidate express drivers from organizing. Just pathetic and transparent.

 

[vantexan]

I know bs when I hear it and you sir are full of it. Yea don't organize because FedEx is just going give more money to ground. Just another pathetic tactic to try and intimidate express drivers from organizing. Just pathetic and transparent.

Actually that's why Express should be organized, because most future profits and growth are going to come from the Ground side and Express couriers will only get crumbs. And while I doubt they'll reduce our pay, they may, and most likely will, hold our pay down while Ground catches up.

 

[bbsam]

I know bs when I hear it and you sir are full of it. Yea don't organize because FedEx is just going give more money to ground. Just another pathetic tactic to try and intimidate express drivers from organizing. Just pathetic and transparent.

I can't say it any more clearly. Go ahead and organize. It absolutely will not harm my business with Ground. Here let me motivate you further. You guys are a bunch of raging pusillanimous and wouldn't get past crying about your position on the net without wetting yourselves. Now go prove me wrong you little cry babies.

 

[MAKAVELI]

I know bs when I hear it and you sir are full of it. Yea don't organize because FedEx is just going give more money to ground. Just another pathetic tactic to try and intimidate express drivers from organizing. Just pathetic and transparent.

I can't say it any more clearly. Go ahead and organize. It absolutely will not harm my business with Ground. Herenlet me motivate you further. You guys are a bunch of raging pusillanimous and wouldn't get past crying about your position on the net without wetting yourselves. Now go prove me wrong you little cry babies.

Based on your posts and rants I would say that you do think it would harm your business. Only someone who spends so much time on this forum trying to intimidate and discourage a group of workers from organizing would think so. You are so pissed cause you got called on it. So stop being a pusillanimous and tell us how you really feel.

 

[bbsam]

Intimidate?! How does one intimidate a group of people who have been putzing around this forum for years to scared to actually get out there and organize? No sir. Any fear people feel is their own and not brought on by my posts. So why don't you just keep assuring people that everything is going to be just fine?

 

[Operational needs]

I can't say it any more clearly. Go ahead and organize. It absolutely will not harm my business with Ground. Here let me motivate you further. You guys are a bunch of raging pusillanimous and wouldn't get past crying about your position on the net without wetting yourselves. Now go prove me wrong you little cry babies.

Based on your posts and rants I would say that you do think it would harm your business. Only someone who spends so much time on this forum trying to intimidate and discourage a group of workers from organizing would think so. You are so pissed cause you got called on it. So stop being a pusillanimous and tell us how you really feel.

Can't we all just get along? We are all kind of on the same team. This all solves nothing.

 

[bbsam]

Can't we all just get along? We are all kind of on the same team. This all solves nothing.

Hmmmmmmmm. Ok.

 

[DontThrowPackages]

Actually that's why Express should be organized, because most future profits and growth are going to come from the Ground side and Express couriers will only get crumbs. And while I doubt they'll reduce our pay, they may, and most likely will, hold our pay down while Ground catches up.

Why would they bother giving ground raises? The whole ideal of ground is a employee willing to work for little play, long hours, no health insurance etc... Compensating Ground for the hard work they do is counter intuitive.

 

[vantexan]

Why would they bother giving ground raises? The whole ideal of ground is a employee willing to work for little play, long hours, no health insurance etc... Compensating Ground for the hard work they do is counter intuitive.

Because even FedEx is subject to inflation pressures. If prices continue to go up, and other companies are raising pay to keep workers, FedEx will have to follow suit. Sure they try to hold pay down, but even they have to face certain realities.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Actually that's why Express should be organized, because most future profits and growth are going to come from the Ground side and Express couriers will only get crumbs. And while I doubt they'll reduce our pay, they may, and most likely will, hold our pay down while Ground catches up.

Why would they bother giving ground raises? The whole ideal of ground is a employee willing to work for little play, long hours, no health insurance etc... Compensating Ground for the hard work they do is counter intuitive.

Exactly, that's why I said its a load of bs. Ground would not have nearly the profit margins it enjoys now without its workers working for peanuts.

 

[vantexan]

Intimidate?! How does one intimidate a group of people who have been putzing around this forum for years to scared to actually get out there and organize? No sir. Any fear people feel is their own and not brought on by my posts. So why don't you just keep assuring people that everything is going to be just fine?

We are a tiny fraction of the workforce. Why are you attacking people who are actually interested in enacting change, rather than criticizing those who act like anything the company does is fine by them? Under the RLA we are stymied in our options, depending on others with real power to come through for us. And when they didn't you've defended them. You aren't for labor unless it's represented by your party of choice, and cover for their failings. So you aren't as high minded as you portray yourself, just another partisan. I see MFE admitting they let us down, you never do.