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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 272531" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Big,</p><p> </p><p>I've come to the conclusion that no matter what you see, it won't matter. I can stick you face squarely at a pile of gov't manure and you'd still swear up and down it's all roses. I do admire your undying loyality, you have that going for you and you are not alone at all either. Lots of folks on bothsides have this in common. </p><p> </p><p>Let me just say this and then I'm done. You can continue to look through a peephole at the Middle East and you will never completely understand the whole picture and if I had to guess, you are comfortable to do so. Most folks are so you are the norm, not the exception. At the same time you also have a political point of view that you've come to see being represented by a certain party and in contrast to see the opposing party as pure anathema to you beliefs. The opposite is equally true of the other politicial side and again you are no different here than most folks. </p><p> </p><p>IMO to understand what is happening now in Iraq and even elsewhere in the Mideast, you have to understand a much larger hsitorical picture and it takes time and effort. I won't kid you there. Believe it or not, to understand the Middle East as it relate to the Jewish/Arab problem, you literally have to start with your bible and Abraham but you also have to run concurrent at the same with secular history and the cultures of Assyria, Babylonian and Persia and the surrounding areas and don't forget Egypt but it's the first 3 that have more direct impact. </p><p> </p><p>Then as you move through time other factors come into play and then you enter the 20th century and the whole picture of WW1, fall ot the Ottoman Empire and then the post WW1 Mideast. In the late 1920's in Eygpt, you have the Muslim Brotherhood and how all of that is the real seedbed of all islamic extremsim we see in the region today. At the same time you have to know the actions of gov't and private interests going on not only here in America but in Britain as well. And believe me, the French and the Russians play and whole lot more into this that I think you even realize. For example, here's a shocker for Big, Bush and Powell were correct, there was WMD in Iraq but the real picture is far more interesting than the scenario laid out for public consumption.</p><p> </p><p>But all that aside, you loyality to a political party on it's values being like your is admirable but what if it's values really weren't like your's at all. Based on you many post, I take it you like low taxes, small gov't a good strong military to protect us, me too. We both totally agree in principle on this but what about the republican party itself. </p><p> </p><p>Well, I guess on the one hand you could say for the moment on low taxes they have it right but what about small gov't? Here you have a bit of a problem. Since 2000' gov't size has seen it's largest increase in the history of the nation. Bush and the Republican Congress made the Clinton years look almost Reaganlike as it relates to gov't growth. Since 1980' and the domination of American politics by Republican/Conservative thought, out national debt has gone from $1trillion dollars to now sitting at $9trillion (so much for smaller gov't) and in the longrun, what does that do for low taxation? Logic would suggest IMO that there looms a huge threat to low taxes out on the horizon that has nothing to do with welfare do-gooder programs but rather just to service an out of whack debt. How does this effect our military? With no money, how far do we go in a war on terror or for that fact how do we face other potential problems out there that could come into play? </p><p> </p><p>True conservative values have always started with limited gov't, low taxes and fiscal responsibilty. IMHO, the republican party has turned it's back on those principles long ago and make no mistake the democrats are just as bad. You maintain a loyality to a party that has sold you and your principles out a long time ago. Your principles are good one and I applaud you for it but they have used you and your loyality and at some point you need to sitdown and read the real record and like myself who would have made you look like a piker in republican loyality, walk away and deny them you support until they wake up and come back to what attracted good conservatives to them in the first place.</p><p> </p><p>Best of luck to you.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 272531, member: 2189"] Big, I've come to the conclusion that no matter what you see, it won't matter. I can stick you face squarely at a pile of gov't manure and you'd still swear up and down it's all roses. I do admire your undying loyality, you have that going for you and you are not alone at all either. Lots of folks on bothsides have this in common. Let me just say this and then I'm done. You can continue to look through a peephole at the Middle East and you will never completely understand the whole picture and if I had to guess, you are comfortable to do so. Most folks are so you are the norm, not the exception. At the same time you also have a political point of view that you've come to see being represented by a certain party and in contrast to see the opposing party as pure anathema to you beliefs. The opposite is equally true of the other politicial side and again you are no different here than most folks. IMO to understand what is happening now in Iraq and even elsewhere in the Mideast, you have to understand a much larger hsitorical picture and it takes time and effort. I won't kid you there. Believe it or not, to understand the Middle East as it relate to the Jewish/Arab problem, you literally have to start with your bible and Abraham but you also have to run concurrent at the same with secular history and the cultures of Assyria, Babylonian and Persia and the surrounding areas and don't forget Egypt but it's the first 3 that have more direct impact. Then as you move through time other factors come into play and then you enter the 20th century and the whole picture of WW1, fall ot the Ottoman Empire and then the post WW1 Mideast. In the late 1920's in Eygpt, you have the Muslim Brotherhood and how all of that is the real seedbed of all islamic extremsim we see in the region today. At the same time you have to know the actions of gov't and private interests going on not only here in America but in Britain as well. And believe me, the French and the Russians play and whole lot more into this that I think you even realize. For example, here's a shocker for Big, Bush and Powell were correct, there was WMD in Iraq but the real picture is far more interesting than the scenario laid out for public consumption. But all that aside, you loyality to a political party on it's values being like your is admirable but what if it's values really weren't like your's at all. Based on you many post, I take it you like low taxes, small gov't a good strong military to protect us, me too. We both totally agree in principle on this but what about the republican party itself. Well, I guess on the one hand you could say for the moment on low taxes they have it right but what about small gov't? Here you have a bit of a problem. Since 2000' gov't size has seen it's largest increase in the history of the nation. Bush and the Republican Congress made the Clinton years look almost Reaganlike as it relates to gov't growth. Since 1980' and the domination of American politics by Republican/Conservative thought, out national debt has gone from $1trillion dollars to now sitting at $9trillion (so much for smaller gov't) and in the longrun, what does that do for low taxation? Logic would suggest IMO that there looms a huge threat to low taxes out on the horizon that has nothing to do with welfare do-gooder programs but rather just to service an out of whack debt. How does this effect our military? With no money, how far do we go in a war on terror or for that fact how do we face other potential problems out there that could come into play? True conservative values have always started with limited gov't, low taxes and fiscal responsibilty. IMHO, the republican party has turned it's back on those principles long ago and make no mistake the democrats are just as bad. You maintain a loyality to a party that has sold you and your principles out a long time ago. Your principles are good one and I applaud you for it but they have used you and your loyality and at some point you need to sitdown and read the real record and like myself who would have made you look like a piker in republican loyality, walk away and deny them you support until they wake up and come back to what attracted good conservatives to them in the first place. Best of luck to you. [/QUOTE]
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