Weak and Pathetic Teamsters

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Unless you work for Express, there's no way you can understand the anti-union environment there. They've had 36 years to build a culture of fear and utter oppression and are still going strong. Anyone who openly talks of unions goes on the list. I know because I've been on it myself, had a copy of the list, and saw the name of the ops manager "assigned' to watch my actions and report back to the District Director on a weekly basis. This was back in 1996, and I imagine I'm still on a list somewhere even though I no longer advocate for the union except on sites like this one. It's simply too risky if you want to stay employed.

The Yellow/Roadway bankruptcy will be a topic at many workgroup meetings during the next few weeks and FedEx will attempt to win more small minds by making employees think that they'll lose their "retirement" if they vote for a union.

The problem is that the pension is already lost, and FedEx took it away, not the evil Teamsters. They did it both because they could, and because we let them, by laying-down and letting FedEx steamroller us over and over again.

I don't dislike bbsam, but he clearly doesn't understand the culture over at Express. Having "purple cajones" and openly standing-up to Smith is like playing Russian Roulette with a bullet in every chamber...you can't help but lose when the deck is completely stacked against you.

Ground is a big unknown, and maybe bbsam will have a fleet of Schwan's trucks someday. Or maybe he'll have his $13.00 per hour drivers delivering Express pkgs too. It isn't over.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I'm sorry Bbscam if I ever gave you the impression that I have any sort of envy for you. If I am green its definitely not with envy but with disgust! The way Ground drivers that are employed by contractors such as yourself are treated is sickening.
Ok. Enough about me, though I am my favorite topic. Why isn't the union organizing companies? Can't be waiting for the Republicans to sweep back into power. And really, who do you think you're fooling? The posters on this site care nothing for Ground drivers except that they are cheap competition for union drivers and thus a threat to their own bloated pay check. Check your pseudo-compassion at the door; you wear it like a cheap suit.

P.S. Nicely done with the spell checker. Now we can move on to punctuation.
 

FedEx courier

Well-Known Member
Again, you miss Carling completely. He was absolutely serious with his comedy.

The difference between "having cajones and committing suicide"? Are you freaking serious? You compare losing a job to suicide? That is sad. And really you never really know the difference until it's all said and done. That's the beauty of life. Standing on the edge, staring death and glory straight in the eye and accepting either one equally. Carpe Diem baby!

But really, being at Ground and watching you Express wage slaves is little more than an amusement for me. Really, do whatever you want. I just think you could have more effect in the real world instead of cyber-jousting here with me. But that would take the courage of your convictions. And yes, I bite my thumb at you.:happy2:

I didn't mean the "committing suicide" statement literally. I meant it as a metaphor. It again shows how little you know about the company. If you go into work and say that you support unionization it's like committing suicide. I don't really care what you think about George Carlin, I know that I've seen interviews with him where he showed that he had class and cared for the well-being of others.

I'm waiting for the big boom like a lot of others, the only reason I even acknowledge some of what you're saying is because it is so far off base that it is just ridiculous. Don't really know what you get out of posting about the little authoritative position that you have but it's certainly entertaining. Keep up the good work, I'm sure everybody needs more laughs. If you want to talk about having courage why don't you openly walk up to a UPS or Fedex couriers and demean them and what they do to their faces, I don't think you'd last five minutes. Go try it Mr. Convictions, see how your big mouth and crap humor fly in person.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Ok. Enough about me, though I am my favorite topic. Why isn't the union organizing companies? Can't be waiting for the Republicans to sweep back into power. And really, who do you think you're fooling? The posters on this site care nothing for Ground drivers except that they are cheap competition for union drivers and thus a threat to their own bloated pay check. Check your pseudo-compassion at the door; you wear it like a cheap suit.

P.S. Nicely done with the spell checker. Now we can move on to punctuation.

The Teamsters are their own worst enemy. "Bloated pay check?" UPS drivers work their asses off for what they earn...and they earn every dime. FedEx Express drivers are way underpaid relative to the income they generate for Smith, so their checks are hardly bloated either.

I actually care about Ground drivers and don't like the way they are exploited. Unfortunately, for most of them, it's the best they can do in today's economy. Once things recover, you'll have a harder time finding people to work for peanuts and Ground may not be so lucrative.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Again, I invite you back to MrFedex's topic. I openly admit my part in hijacking the thread and hope some have been as amused as I, but really not about me. So if you'd like to get back to your silly little self-pity party about how the union isn't stepping in to to organize your panties, then by all means do so. Hell the thread is called "Weak and Pathetic" and I stated clearly that the union can only be that way with weak and pathetic membership. Is that not the case? If so, then we are in agreement. If not, then we are back to MrFedex's original question/statement which seems to be "What are they waiting for?"

I'm on very good terms with the local UPS drivers. Know most by name. Worked with most of them 20 years ago. Have no problem letting them know that while they're sweating it out in 100 degree heat I'll be at the country club. Or that this peak season I probably had to drive a combined total of 2 days through the month of December. We get a kick out of the irony. Nobody saw things playing out this way 20 years ago when I separated/was fired from UPS. Funny how life works. So, yes, I'd probably last 5 minutes and I'd probably buy them a beer if in an appropriate setting.
 

Brown287

Im not the Mail Man!
Ok. Enough about me, though I am my favorite topic. Why isn't the union organizing companies? Can't be waiting for the Republicans to sweep back into power. And really, who do you think you're fooling? The posters on this site care nothing for Ground drivers except that they are cheap competition for union drivers and thus a threat to their own bloated pay check. Check your pseudo-compassion at the door; you wear it like a cheap suit.

P.S. Nicely done with the spell checker. Now we can move on to punctuation.
Actually Bbscam, Ground is more then just my competition its a source of income for my brother. So I do know more about Ground then the average UPS driver. Also not once have i ever stated that the union is the answer for FedEx drivers Express or Ground. The problem is that employees at Express don't have any leverage and drivers for Ground have no voice. You have stated in a past post that being a Ground driver should just be viewed at as extra income, a second job if you will. Well Bbscam being DOT certified you should know that your total hours of employment regardless of which job it is, goes toward your hours. So explain to me how it is that someone working 50 to 60 hours a week is going to get a second job for only 10 hours that makes up the difference. Part of the reason that drivers are paid well is that we need to be, we can legally only have one job in most cases. So if you have drivers that are working more hours then they should do to them having second jobs then I would love to report you. How ever this is where you generally pull some B.S. out of your pants like $100,000 dog bite that apparently your insurance paid. No co-pay on your part right. Also it was sure nice that your insurance decided that you where at fault so that they paid.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I would think it would be a two income house-hold. You know, husband and wife both work. Happens all the time in the US.
 

Brown287

Im not the Mail Man!
I would think it would be a two income house-hold. You know, husband and wife both work. Happens all the time in the US.
Silly me I was not aware of this arraignment you speak of. What a concept Bbscam, that must be an example of your superior intellect shining through! You and I both know that your drivers earn their money, you have stated many times how well you do financially. If your drivers are doing the labor don't you think that they should be compensated accordingly. What concerns me is that this practice of under cutting Ground wages is an excepted practice that apparently is applauded by contractors such as yourself. It seems to me that wages should represent the work that is being done. If you drove and just employed a labor to run the packages that would be one thing but you have a driver that needs to be certified and trained that also does the labor. Besides if you are truly compensating your drivers accordingly then them unionizing would be no threat to you and the other contractors, now would it.
 

FedEx courier

Well-Known Member
It's funny how common it is for people to be claiming former employment with UPS. It's all over the brownbailout site and of course Bsum does it too. You aren't fooling anyone, it's obvious who you are and what your motives are. You spend enormous time on this site making cracks about issues that you claim you don't care about. I was previously referring to the statements you made about drivers being silly and little. It's obviously a different story when your staring people in the face. Talk about weak and pathetic.

I feel for the Ground drivers who have unfair contractor bosses and you continue to show everyone how apparent that problem is at Ground. The Union can't do much while the Fedex is still under the RLA. They aren't going to have rallies at stations when that station can't unionize anyway, it would be a waste of time. You have very little to offer in any of the discussion because you continue to show that you know very little about the details of the issues. So again keep up the good work and show everyone how you think you're Boss Hogg. You have obviously spent years as a grommit in a powerless position so now that you think you have some power you think it's cool to let everyone know about it. Fedex would flush you down the toilet as fast as anyone else and it's truly sad that you don't realize that.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
It's funny how common it is for people to be claiming former employment with UPS. It's all over the brownbailout site and of course Bsum does it too. You aren't fooling anyone, it's obvious who you are and what your motives are. You spend enormous time on this site making cracks about issues that you claim you don't care about. I was previously referring to the statements you made about drivers being silly and little. It's obviously a different story when your staring people in the face. Talk about weak and pathetic.

I feel for the Ground drivers who have unfair contractor bosses and you continue to show everyone how apparent that problem is at Ground. The Union can't do much while the Fedex is still under the RLA. They aren't going to have rallies at stations when that station can't unionize anyway, it would be a waste of time. You have very little to offer in any of the discussion because you continue to show that you know very little about the details of the issues. So again keep up the good work and show everyone how you think you're Boss Hogg. You have obviously spent years as a grommit in a powerless position so now that you think you have some power you think it's cool to let everyone know about it. Fedex would flush you down the toilet as fast as anyone else and it's truly sad that you don't realize that.
OK. I give. Who am I and what are my motives? If you insist on making this thread about me, then I'm game. Sorry MrFedex, I tried to re-direct.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
It never bothers me when topics go all over the place.....that's what "discussion and debate" are all about. Some other folks get real upset about it over on the Brown side. Have at it!!
 

FedEx courier

Well-Known Member
OK. I give. Who am I and what are my motives? If you insist on making this thread about me, then I'm game. Sorry MrFedex, I tried to re-direct.

You obviously like the negative attention. You always make it about yourself so there you go. You made a bunch of statements to the "silly little driver" that you obviously don't want to take responsibility for and now you act like you've been trying to stay on topic. It's completely obvious you re ready to bash a Union any chance you have because a Union would threaten your self admitted corrupt little operation you're running. Big fuzzy bollocks to you, I hope you take my advice and start running your mouth to fedex and ups drivers about how menial you feel that what they does is. Whenever you feel tough enough you should try that, you obviously don't feel tough anymore because your blubber mouth has started to backpedal.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I wasn't the one bashing the union, that would be MrFedex. He called them "weak and pathetic". I just think it's just as weak and pathetic for him and others to wait for the calvary to come riding in to unionize the company from the outside.

I only called one driver "silly little driver" and that was you. In response to your suggesting why it was that I waste my time here and produce such hideous posts. I believe my exact post went something like "Silly little driver. I waste time because I have time." Now somehow you have construed that to mean all drivers everywhere.

Fear the union? Anything but. I still don't see any movement toward it either from within or from without. I peruse this site and see the turmoil between company and union, union member and union member, and union officials and those who want to take their places and I am inclined to believe more and more that MrFedex is right to call them "weak and pathetic".

Here's the rub. The union needs to learn how to talk to a new generation. Reagan and the Republicans packaged a horrid trickle down de-regulated economic system that 30-somethings and younger have seen their entire lives. This is the norm. Talking of "making millions on the backs of the poor" doesn't resonate. Telling people that their getting screwed at $14/hr. doesn't mean crap to the guy got laid off at John Deere 6 months after his great union benefits kicked in. And you wonder why people would shun the union? After what's happened in Detroit? And no, that is not to say that it is the union's fault. It merely appears that when a union company hits the skids, the fall is that much harder. Where does a 50 year old auto builder go to make $30 an hour and keep the house he still has 10 years to pay on? Looking from the outside in, I think people are simply going to be happy to be employed. From that perspective I reiterate: The union needs to find a message to reach these people. I think MrFedex would concur. In fact I think he's right in that if someone doesn't make a move soon, the best opportunity for unionizing may be missed. Again, I don't see it happening.

And finally, I am who I say I am and my motivation is profit.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I wasn't the one bashing the union, that would be MrFedex. He called them "weak and pathetic". I just think it's just as weak and pathetic for him and others to wait for the calvary to come riding in to unionize the company from the outside.

I only called one driver "silly little driver" and that was you. In response to your suggesting why it was that I waste my time here and produce such hideous posts. I believe my exact post went something like "Silly little driver. I waste time because I have time." Now somehow you have construed that to mean all drivers everywhere.

Fear the union? Anything but. I still don't see any movement toward it either from within or from without. I peruse this site and see the turmoil between company and union, union member and union member, and union officials and those who want to take their places and I am inclined to believe more and more that MrFedex is right to call them "weak and pathetic".

Here's the rub. The union needs to learn how to talk to a new generation. Reagan and the Republicans packaged a horrid trickle down de-regulated economic system that 30-somethings and younger have seen their entire lives. This is the norm. Talking of "making millions on the backs of the poor" doesn't resonate. Telling people that their getting screwed at $14/hr. doesn't mean crap to the guy got laid off at John Deere 6 months after his great union benefits kicked in. And you wonder why people would shun the union? After what's happened in Detroit? And no, that is not to say that it is the union's fault. It merely appears that when a union company hits the skids, the fall is that much harder. Where does a 50 year old auto builder go to make $30 an hour and keep the house he still has 10 years to pay on? Looking from the outside in, I think people are simply going to be happy to be employed. From that perspective I reiterate: The union needs to find a message to reach these people. I think MrFedex would concur. In fact I think he's right in that if someone doesn't make a move soon, the best opportunity for unionizing may be missed. Again, I don't see it happening.

And finally, I am who I say I am and my motivation is profit.

You still don't get it, do you? The "cavalry" as you call it, must ride-in because FedEx has created an environment where so-called laws that protect those who advocate for unions are meaningless. If you try to exercise your legal right to organize, you either get fired or harassed out the door...and they are extremely good at it.

People aren't usually "simply happy to be employed". They want more...like opportunity for advancement, decent benefits, and a living wage that offers discretionary income rather than a paycheck-to-paycheck existence. Ground is already the former, and Express is almost there. The UPS driver, who makes about 40% more than I do for essentially the same job has discretionary income that he/she can invest, buy a new Camaro(!!)with or just save in their mattress if they want.

Guess what, my motivation is profit too, and Fred S has decided that my "profits" are going to be cut so his can rise. The union's message needs to be that they will actually fulfill their promise of advocating and providing a better life for the worker instead of being a dues-collecting organization that doesn't practice what they preach.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Unless you work for Express, there's no way you can understand the anti-union environment there. They've had 36 years to build a culture of fear and utter oppression and are still going strong. Anyone who openly talks of unions goes on the list. I know because I've been on it myself, had a copy of the list, and saw the name of the ops manager "assigned' to watch my actions and report back to the District Director on a weekly basis. This was back in 1996, and I imagine I'm still on a list somewhere even though I no longer advocate for the union except on sites like this one. It's simply too risky if you want to stay employed.

The Yellow/Roadway bankruptcy will be a topic at many workgroup meetings during the next few weeks and FedEx will attempt to win more small minds by making employees think that they'll lose their "retirement" if they vote for a union.

The problem is that the pension is already lost, and FedEx took it away, not the evil Teamsters. They did it both because they could, and because we let them, by laying-down and letting FedEx steamroller us over and over again.

I don't dislike bbsam, but he clearly doesn't understand the culture over at Express. Having "purple cajones" and openly standing-up to Smith is like playing Russian Roulette with a bullet in every chamber...you can't help but lose when the deck is completely stacked against you.

Ground is a big unknown, and maybe bbsam will have a fleet of Schwan's trucks someday. Or maybe he'll have his $13.00 per hour drivers delivering Express pkgs too. It isn't over.
I don't doubt for a moment that such "lists" exist. And my "purple cajones" comment was meant to suggest the futility of your situation. In a nut-shell: Fedex Express can't organize without fear of retaliation and the Union won't for whatever reason. So where do you go from here? Ground I think is not nearly the unknown you suggest. Unless the entire "contractor" guidelines are completely rewritten by the IRS Ground will continue to use contractors within those boundaries.
 

FedEx courier

Well-Known Member
"I only called one driver "silly little driver" and that was you. In response to your suggesting why it was that I waste my time here and produce such hideous posts. I believe my exact post went something like "Silly little driver. I waste time because I have time." Now somehow you have construed that to mean all drivers everywhere."

Sorry Bsam, it seemed like you were stereotyping all drivers by classifying me as a "silly little driver" I thought that meant people who are drivers are silly since you spend time bragging about how you are sitting at a country club while you have others busting their tails for peanuts. I thought you were talking about all drivers when you classified someone in a negative light only by what they do for a living.

Frankly it pisses me off when you get on here and mock a situation that you don't know very much about. I have a lot of friends I've worked with over the years who have been mistreated. Some of them have been like family to me. It was my mistake to let you do that. The entire point about fedex organizing from the inside is the main issue with the RLA vs. NLRA classification. It is virtually impossible for employees to organize under the RLA without massive funds and resources. As Mr. Fedex points out if you are pro-union or show any union involvement at all you are gone. That is what I meant by "committing suicide". You may as well quit on the spot because something will be doctored up to get you fired. You seem to be here just to piss people off and you admit getting pleasure out of that. Seems like you could find something a little more constructive to do with your time especially if you don't care about these issues. Maybe I'm naive but I like to believe that nobody likes to see people treated unfairly, even you. Everyone wants a better situation for themselves and that's what this issue is about. If fedex felt that employees wouldn't unionize then they wouldn't give a crap what classification was changed. It's that simple.

As far as your motives, that's a hard one. If you felt confident and assured that nothing was going to change your situation it seems you wouldn't worry about any of these issues. Maybe your motives are strictly for entertainment, you just like to antagonize people to try and get a rise out of them because you know this is an issue that some people feel strongly about.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Contrary to popular belief, I do get it. There is alot of frustration at Fedex. Employees don't like the employment situation and want to change it. The company doesn't want it changed and at this point in time holds all the cards. So what's the employee to do?

It's probably insensitive to mock the circumstance, but I don't apologize for it. It seems to me that as volatile as the situation is, people looking for a painless, easy, or quick solution are being unrealistic and time is not on their side. History has always shown that those in power don't easily give it up. Why would Express be any different? As "well connected" as Smith is, do you really think Washington is your ally? We could debate ad nauseum the fairness of it all and though interesting, the situation would not change. The reality would remain.

Here's how daunting your challenge is. Ground is covered under the NLRA already. No movement toward unionizing one bit from what I've see either from within or without. So Express is trying to get to get to where Ground is already. In fact years ago there were some RPS terminals that were unionized. So not only is Fedex and corporate America well versed in preventing union formation, but in breaking them as well. And no I'm not saying it's right, only that this is another part of the huge task that one is undertaking in looking to the teamsters.
 

FedEx courier

Well-Known Member
One big difference is Ground drivers don't actually work for fedex so they can't really unionize either when they work for individual contractors.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Contrary to popular belief, I do get it. There is alot of frustration at Fedex. Employees don't like the employment situation and want to change it. The company doesn't want it changed and at this point in time holds all the cards. So what's the employee to do?

It's probably insensitive to mock the circumstance, but I don't apologize for it. It seems to me that as volatile as the situation is, people looking for a painless, easy, or quick solution are being unrealistic and time is not on their side. History has always shown that those in power don't easily give it up. Why would Express be any different? As "well connected" as Smith is, do you really think Washington is your ally? We could debate ad nauseum the fairness of it all and though interesting, the situation would not change. The reality would remain.

Here's how daunting your challenge is. Ground is covered under the NLRA already. No movement toward unionizing one bit from what I've see either from within or without. So Express is trying to get to get to where Ground is already. In fact years ago there were some RPS terminals that were unionized. So not only is Fedex and corporate America well versed in preventing union formation, but in breaking them as well. And no I'm not saying it's right, only that this is another part of the huge task that one is undertaking in looking to the teamsters.

Ground is a different animal. How can drivers organize when they aren't even "employees"? Nobody thinks there is a fast and easy solution, and Smith doesn't hold all the cards, just most of them.

There are other ways Smith screws his people other than preventing unionization. One is the overabundance of part-time workers, most of whom have little chance of going FT. Another is extended top-out times, which are probably around 15 years at this point. The list goes on and on, but the main point remains...FedEx Express is an abusive employer with an equally abusive leader.

The healthcare mess has undoubtedly been a godsend for FedEx because it has put most other issues on the back burner. The 3-month extension of the FAA Reauthorization Act was recently trumpeted as a major victory for FedEx because no language changing the RLA was included.

Washington is a big question mark because UPS has also been pouring major money into the RLA issue. I would love to see Fred spend millions, and then have UPS "win" the whole shooting match.

Again, where are the Teamsters? Instead of getting out there to FedEx stations and educating people they are apparently conducting a stealth campaign that doesn't include active recruitment. Who knows...perhaps Smith has cut a deal with the union and is going to send a few billion their way so they don't push very hard to unionize Express. The IBT has pension problems, and they probably don't much care where the money comes from. Given the past history of the IBT colluding with employers, is this really a far-fetched idea? In the long run, it would be cheaper for Fred to pay-off the IBT now instead of getting the unionized workforce he fears so greatly.
 
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