Home
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Members
Current visitors
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe Community Center
Current Events
What Caused the Financial Meltdown?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 403719" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>With all due respect I completely disagree with that thinking. It fails only because you (general term, not you specifically) refuse to think outside old. worn out social planning economic models. I'm not taking about the welfare kinda social models specifically but the models of where gov't economic planners try and manipulate business and economic models that either benefit selected industries or benefit gov't based on driving tax revenues over what the citizen might do on their own if left on their own. </p><p> </p><p>These wonks come to Washington with their societal thesis in hand trying to prove they work and we end of being the guinea pig to suffer the fate whether it works or not. In the meantime, whoever the politically connected was that brought in the raschal, either made his/her money they wanted, positioned their interest into monopoly status or achieved some other means of power as a result and we the poor suckers are left with the debris and distruction all over the floor. </p><p> </p><p>Some maroon years ago locked us into a society of oil by building a tax model behind it to support roads for example and look where it has gotten us. Had we found another method of payment, say a toll for example, the market could bring forward any means of conveyance because how it durived it's energy to move would be meaningless from a tax policy standpoint. All that would matter then would be the market place itself and the relationship between buyers and sellers. At present when oil was $10 a barrel, federal gov't gave back money through production tax credits in order to keep the process going. T. Boone Pickens in testifying before Congress on his wind idea spoke about making those production tax credits apply to wind energy. Some argue doing this for business is smart of gov't and from one business model, that may be true but what effects downstream do you create with such market intervention? Had gov't not given oil tax credits when it was $10 a barrel, might they have turned off the pump and closed up supply a bit to raise the price per barrel and make it profitable. If gov't let that happen, people might have begun changing habits, driving less, not buying SUV's but buying smaller, higher mileage cars and this would effect their bottomline in tax revenues.</p><p> </p><p>If we all converted to electric cars today, the complete road system would go into chaos for lack of funding or if someone developed a 100 mpg car that got large scale use among the consuming public, the negative impact on tax revenues again would place fed. road funds in panic. I contend gov't tax revenues are as big a barrier to alternative energy and high efficency vehicles as the technology itself based purely on economic tax models of the federal gov't.</p><p> </p><p>People scream that de-regulation has caused the crisis and if you stay locked into the Keynesian/fiat economic model, that argument does hold some water I would grudgingly admit. But if you completely de-regulated even to the point of no central bank having monopoly on currency and currency creation and you let people decide medium of exchanges among themselves, this defangs the so-called fatcats of corporatism the left uses as a whipping boy and it kills the welfare state abuse that the right uses to it's own agendas. Gov't sits in the middle and swallows up more and more power and digs us economically deeper no matter which side rules in this process. </p><p> </p><p>Let's kill this whole endless circle of stupidity and let local folk decide among themselves how they want to do bidness and conduct life. If the plumber, hardware store owner, doctor and auto repairman understand the nature and need for an honest, fair economy and then you add in some factory workers, welder, electrician and local banker, you don't think between them and some more townsfolk that they couldn't come up with an honest and fair economy among themselves?</p><p> </p><p>Our founding fathers did it and look what we have to work with today that they didn't. Now tell me again it's impossible! BULLSCHITT! This is America and nothing is impossible when we put our minds to it and gov't stays out of the way.</p><p> </p><p>AV's right, gov't should stay out of the market. </p><p> </p><p>JMO.</p><p> </p><p>Audit the Fed!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 403719, member: 2189"] With all due respect I completely disagree with that thinking. It fails only because you (general term, not you specifically) refuse to think outside old. worn out social planning economic models. I'm not taking about the welfare kinda social models specifically but the models of where gov't economic planners try and manipulate business and economic models that either benefit selected industries or benefit gov't based on driving tax revenues over what the citizen might do on their own if left on their own. These wonks come to Washington with their societal thesis in hand trying to prove they work and we end of being the guinea pig to suffer the fate whether it works or not. In the meantime, whoever the politically connected was that brought in the raschal, either made his/her money they wanted, positioned their interest into monopoly status or achieved some other means of power as a result and we the poor suckers are left with the debris and distruction all over the floor. Some maroon years ago locked us into a society of oil by building a tax model behind it to support roads for example and look where it has gotten us. Had we found another method of payment, say a toll for example, the market could bring forward any means of conveyance because how it durived it's energy to move would be meaningless from a tax policy standpoint. All that would matter then would be the market place itself and the relationship between buyers and sellers. At present when oil was $10 a barrel, federal gov't gave back money through production tax credits in order to keep the process going. T. Boone Pickens in testifying before Congress on his wind idea spoke about making those production tax credits apply to wind energy. Some argue doing this for business is smart of gov't and from one business model, that may be true but what effects downstream do you create with such market intervention? Had gov't not given oil tax credits when it was $10 a barrel, might they have turned off the pump and closed up supply a bit to raise the price per barrel and make it profitable. If gov't let that happen, people might have begun changing habits, driving less, not buying SUV's but buying smaller, higher mileage cars and this would effect their bottomline in tax revenues. If we all converted to electric cars today, the complete road system would go into chaos for lack of funding or if someone developed a 100 mpg car that got large scale use among the consuming public, the negative impact on tax revenues again would place fed. road funds in panic. I contend gov't tax revenues are as big a barrier to alternative energy and high efficency vehicles as the technology itself based purely on economic tax models of the federal gov't. People scream that de-regulation has caused the crisis and if you stay locked into the Keynesian/fiat economic model, that argument does hold some water I would grudgingly admit. But if you completely de-regulated even to the point of no central bank having monopoly on currency and currency creation and you let people decide medium of exchanges among themselves, this defangs the so-called fatcats of corporatism the left uses as a whipping boy and it kills the welfare state abuse that the right uses to it's own agendas. Gov't sits in the middle and swallows up more and more power and digs us economically deeper no matter which side rules in this process. Let's kill this whole endless circle of stupidity and let local folk decide among themselves how they want to do bidness and conduct life. If the plumber, hardware store owner, doctor and auto repairman understand the nature and need for an honest, fair economy and then you add in some factory workers, welder, electrician and local banker, you don't think between them and some more townsfolk that they couldn't come up with an honest and fair economy among themselves? Our founding fathers did it and look what we have to work with today that they didn't. Now tell me again it's impossible! BULLSCHITT! This is America and nothing is impossible when we put our minds to it and gov't stays out of the way. AV's right, gov't should stay out of the market. JMO. Audit the Fed! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe Community Center
Current Events
What Caused the Financial Meltdown?
Top