Home
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Members
Current visitors
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe UPS Forum
UPS Partners
What do you like about the Union?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="curiousbrain" data-source="post: 936068" data-attributes="member: 31608"><p>I like that, even in my low "management" position, I can subtly use the contract to deflect extremely ridiculous demands from the higher ups; I will never actually tell them that I won't instruct people to work as directed, but let's just say that having the occasional shield benefits me as well as them. There is a synergy to be had, if used sparingly and properly.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Most people do many things very well; a few do everything very badly - even worse, a subset of the few do everything very badly and freely admit that they don't care, don't want to do anything, and that there is nothing you can do. That casts a large shadow over the rest who generally perform above and beyond what the average person can do.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I, for one, do; I like the fact that there is a well-defined, clear path of discipline. When dealing with a reasonable employee who had a bad day, or made some mistakes, I can say something to the effect of: this is what happened to cause this discipline, this is what this discipline means for you long term, and here is the real impact of this discipline. If the employee doesn't give a crap and has a history of absenteeism or whatever, I can paint it in a different light such that this is their second warning letter, blah blah blah.</p><p></p><p>It makes my life easier, which is a negligible benefit because I will deal with it regardless, but especially for those who care about their job and made honest mistakes, it allows me to soften the blow and deflect some of the vitriol that may be spewing out of the back office(s) with the reality that a verbal warning doesn't mean jack (in their case).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I actually wish I could push for raises for some employees - for the simple reason that I don't just feel that some do more than others, I know that some do more than others and they deserve something very tangible. On this point, I understand Upstate's concern about promoting mediocrity, and somewhat sympathize with it - if the compensation is the same across the board, then there is little incentive (beyond pride in doing a good job, etc) to perform at a level beyond the minimum acceptable standards.</p><p></p><p>That being said, I oscillate between disliking the Union for the aforementioned reason, and not really minding the Union because I am not in it anymore. And, when I was, on some days it really bothered me to kill myself and then watch someone push carts or whatever and make the same as I did.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See the previous section; sometimes I dislike the issue of seniority, other times I don't mind. Also, generally speaking, the folks with the most seniority will do a great job because they know all the tips and tricks that only comes with experience; however, I would like it if the guy who had a new wife and kid could maybe do the extra hour of work pre-shift because that hour might be the difference between paying the electric bill or not.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See the "structured discipline" part.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I understand the benefit, but if I had to work on the handful of days per year "we" get off, it would not bother me either way - granted, I understand that as someone with very little immediate family and no significant other or dependents, I am in the minority. Most people have such things, and they want time with their family - I understand that, and agree that they should have defined times when they don't have to work.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is a tricky one for me.</p><p></p><p>I don't want to steal labor from anyone; I really don't. However (and you knew there was going to be a "however), I will not watch a small egress issue spiral out of control into a full-blown pile of boxes; furthermore, I cannot watch a person doing their best, sweat pouring off their face, and simply stand there and watch them - that is not who I am. So, file on me if you must - I will clear egress and load a truck until the flow calms down and this person is not buried.</p><p></p><p>Maybe things work differently elsewhere, but when the flow really gets crazy in the building where I am employed, a preloader can barely walk between their three cars because there is crap being pushed off the belt - over 70's, ten foot boxes, pottery barn, everything. At the end of the belt (it is not circular, no recycle belt, etc), things stack up until they start getting thrown off the belt and then it is just a free for all until the unload decides "OK, we have done enough for the first hour". Then, we clean up on the belts, and they decide to hit their numbers for the second hour.</p><p></p><p>So, with that situation in mind, sometimes I work all day because there is a continual egress issue for hours at a time. On the other hand, if the flow is calm and manageable, I will not load a box. I will actually process missorts in a timely fashion, do any lookups, and other things.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not really; I use the fact that they all do an incredibly physical job, and if you happen to be light and some one else is blown out, go help them because you are a human being and they deserve it. If that is what it means to be in a Union, then great - but that is a secondary benefit, not the primary one.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Any verbal warning that is not of an immediate nature (such as "stop throwing boxes at 60mph" or whatever), is done in the presence of the steward because of the benefits it provides - both for me (as the low-rung representative of management, anything [including the presence of the steward] helps me out) and for them (in case they ever have to defend their case, it benefits them because the steward can say "I was there" or what not).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This might not be surprising, but UPS doesn't train me in the contract; don't know what Article 40 is. In an unpopular situation, though, if the "command" is entirely unavoidable and yet it falls to me to deliver it for some strange reason, I generally preface it with something akin to "... you know, I work as directed just like you do ..." Does it stink of CYA? Maybe a little; but it also allows me to add some comments that basically say "Look, I know this is bull<img src="http://*" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /><img src="http://*" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /><img src="http://*" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /><img src="http://*" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /> just like you do, but I have to do this."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No; or, never tried, rather. If I thought I could, and it was something that could benefit me, the building where I am employed, or those whom I supervise, I might. I would think long and hard about it before I tried to smack corporate over the head with the contract that I'm not really covered under, though.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>An employee, or more importantly, a friend, was having some problems with his dog - thought he may have had to put it down. I caught wind of it, and broached the conversation with him. I laid it out for him pretty simply: if you have to put the dog down, take the next day off, no questions asked; I will tell the "boss" to eat <img src="http://*" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /><img src="http://*" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /><img src="http://*" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /><img src="http://*" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /><img src="http://*" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" />, that you told me beforehand it was a discretionary day, and nothing will go on your file. I shook his hand, and walked away.</p><p></p><p>That is not strictly a contract benefit, but I knew that even if the bosses flipped out, I could simply point to the contract and despite all their pissing and moaning, nothing would happen.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="curiousbrain, post: 936068, member: 31608"] I like that, even in my low "management" position, I can subtly use the contract to deflect extremely ridiculous demands from the higher ups; I will never actually tell them that I won't instruct people to work as directed, but let's just say that having the occasional shield benefits me as well as them. There is a synergy to be had, if used sparingly and properly. Most people do many things very well; a few do everything very badly - even worse, a subset of the few do everything very badly and freely admit that they don't care, don't want to do anything, and that there is nothing you can do. That casts a large shadow over the rest who generally perform above and beyond what the average person can do. I, for one, do; I like the fact that there is a well-defined, clear path of discipline. When dealing with a reasonable employee who had a bad day, or made some mistakes, I can say something to the effect of: this is what happened to cause this discipline, this is what this discipline means for you long term, and here is the real impact of this discipline. If the employee doesn't give a crap and has a history of absenteeism or whatever, I can paint it in a different light such that this is their second warning letter, blah blah blah. It makes my life easier, which is a negligible benefit because I will deal with it regardless, but especially for those who care about their job and made honest mistakes, it allows me to soften the blow and deflect some of the vitriol that may be spewing out of the back office(s) with the reality that a verbal warning doesn't mean jack (in their case). I actually wish I could push for raises for some employees - for the simple reason that I don't just feel that some do more than others, I know that some do more than others and they deserve something very tangible. On this point, I understand Upstate's concern about promoting mediocrity, and somewhat sympathize with it - if the compensation is the same across the board, then there is little incentive (beyond pride in doing a good job, etc) to perform at a level beyond the minimum acceptable standards. That being said, I oscillate between disliking the Union for the aforementioned reason, and not really minding the Union because I am not in it anymore. And, when I was, on some days it really bothered me to kill myself and then watch someone push carts or whatever and make the same as I did. See the previous section; sometimes I dislike the issue of seniority, other times I don't mind. Also, generally speaking, the folks with the most seniority will do a great job because they know all the tips and tricks that only comes with experience; however, I would like it if the guy who had a new wife and kid could maybe do the extra hour of work pre-shift because that hour might be the difference between paying the electric bill or not. See the "structured discipline" part. I understand the benefit, but if I had to work on the handful of days per year "we" get off, it would not bother me either way - granted, I understand that as someone with very little immediate family and no significant other or dependents, I am in the minority. Most people have such things, and they want time with their family - I understand that, and agree that they should have defined times when they don't have to work. This is a tricky one for me. I don't want to steal labor from anyone; I really don't. However (and you knew there was going to be a "however), I will not watch a small egress issue spiral out of control into a full-blown pile of boxes; furthermore, I cannot watch a person doing their best, sweat pouring off their face, and simply stand there and watch them - that is not who I am. So, file on me if you must - I will clear egress and load a truck until the flow calms down and this person is not buried. Maybe things work differently elsewhere, but when the flow really gets crazy in the building where I am employed, a preloader can barely walk between their three cars because there is crap being pushed off the belt - over 70's, ten foot boxes, pottery barn, everything. At the end of the belt (it is not circular, no recycle belt, etc), things stack up until they start getting thrown off the belt and then it is just a free for all until the unload decides "OK, we have done enough for the first hour". Then, we clean up on the belts, and they decide to hit their numbers for the second hour. So, with that situation in mind, sometimes I work all day because there is a continual egress issue for hours at a time. On the other hand, if the flow is calm and manageable, I will not load a box. I will actually process missorts in a timely fashion, do any lookups, and other things. Not really; I use the fact that they all do an incredibly physical job, and if you happen to be light and some one else is blown out, go help them because you are a human being and they deserve it. If that is what it means to be in a Union, then great - but that is a secondary benefit, not the primary one. Any verbal warning that is not of an immediate nature (such as "stop throwing boxes at 60mph" or whatever), is done in the presence of the steward because of the benefits it provides - both for me (as the low-rung representative of management, anything [including the presence of the steward] helps me out) and for them (in case they ever have to defend their case, it benefits them because the steward can say "I was there" or what not). This might not be surprising, but UPS doesn't train me in the contract; don't know what Article 40 is. In an unpopular situation, though, if the "command" is entirely unavoidable and yet it falls to me to deliver it for some strange reason, I generally preface it with something akin to "... you know, I work as directed just like you do ..." Does it stink of CYA? Maybe a little; but it also allows me to add some comments that basically say "Look, I know this is bull[IMG]*[/IMG][IMG]*[/IMG][IMG]*[/IMG][IMG]*[/IMG] just like you do, but I have to do this." No; or, never tried, rather. If I thought I could, and it was something that could benefit me, the building where I am employed, or those whom I supervise, I might. I would think long and hard about it before I tried to smack corporate over the head with the contract that I'm not really covered under, though. An employee, or more importantly, a friend, was having some problems with his dog - thought he may have had to put it down. I caught wind of it, and broached the conversation with him. I laid it out for him pretty simply: if you have to put the dog down, take the next day off, no questions asked; I will tell the "boss" to eat [IMG]*[/IMG][IMG]*[/IMG][IMG]*[/IMG][IMG]*[/IMG][IMG]*[/IMG], that you told me beforehand it was a discretionary day, and nothing will go on your file. I shook his hand, and walked away. That is not strictly a contract benefit, but I knew that even if the bosses flipped out, I could simply point to the contract and despite all their pissing and moaning, nothing would happen. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe UPS Forum
UPS Partners
What do you like about the Union?
Top