What does the union do for UPS

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by tieguy, Apr 17, 2008.

  1. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Great question from impacted TSG. Whats the benifit to UPS. What does the union do for UPS that they would not be able to have without the union.
     
  2. freeloader

    freeloader geek

    Wal-mart is a non-union shop and from what I've heard, the grunt workers at their distribution centers start at around $11 an hour, which is more than the starting pay at UPS. The only difference would be the UPS benefits but there are no new hire benefits for 18 months under the new contract. So it looks like the score is:

    Non-Union 1
    Union 0
     
  3. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    The union isnt there for UPS... it's there for the workers... Now you may question how well the union does that, but that wasnt the question...

    Now it may be a strectch, but take this into consideration. I feel like the workers at UPS in comparison to others in our industry blows the competition out of the water. Im not talking about UPS the company, I mean the workers (drivers/feeders particularly. This is who the public see most). We are the best paid with the best benefits bar none. This in return, in my opinion, causes the workers to go that extra mile for the company. I know, I know some response will be is that UPS pays that wage, but the union is part of the negotiations (no way UPS pays the same wage w/o a union). I think that without being a union job, we would be just like every other delivery company. Just a thought to throw out
     
  4. ImpactedTSG

    ImpactedTSG New Member

    Thanks Tie! From what I saw here is what the union gives the company:

    Workers that get out of situations where they should clearly lose their jobs but don't because of the union. Basically workers are untouchable unless they are caught stealing and sometimes even then they keep their jobs.

    Money draining strikes and negotiations to prevent them. Money that could be better spent in other areas.

    Not being able to assign the best workers to the crucial positions. Certain jobs are more "attractive" than others and sups cannot assign a kick-butt lower seniority worker to them if a higher seniority worker want to do that job even if they aboslutely suck at it.

    I'll come up with more later. I do mean to sound anti-union, but when it comes down to it, I guess I am. I think the idea of a union to protect workers is a good idea, but like most other big govt. type entities, it is grossly misused.
     
  5. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    Wow, $11 an hour huh? That sounds great for those Wal-mart guys. So tell me, what do they make after they have been there for three years?
     
  6. ikoi62

    ikoi62 Member

    Hard to tell from this statement if you like Unions or not.

    The Union is there to protect all the employees yes even the ones who are not the best..people who bitch about unions always bring up the bad employee. what about the thousands of employees who bust their ass to get the job done? who if there were no union to protect them could and would be fired just because a supervisor didn't like the way they looked or the way they talked or the how they worked that day or didn't make the made up numbers for that day?

    I think that if TSG department were in the union you wouldn't be asking this question.

    Not being able to assign the best censored kisser to the crucial positions. Certain jobs are more "attractive" than others and sups cannot assign a censored kissing lower seniority worker to them if a higher seniority worker wants to do that job even if they absolutely suck at it (in your opinion) because your friend would do a better job.

    There i fixed that for you.

    Seniority
    So your saying that a person who has busted his **s at a back breaking job for 15 -20 years with the same company should not get treated a little better then the new guy who might just be a friend of the supervisor or kisses butt a lot more then the guy who is working to put food on his table.

    The union isn't there for UPS... it's there for the workers!
     
  7. MR_Vengeance

    MR_Vengeance United Parcel Survivor

    The Union is a condom, the company is
    John Holmes

    blank ____________________blank
     
  8. ImpactedTSG

    ImpactedTSG New Member

    Most of the sups I've known are worried about one thing. Production. They want their area wrapped up as fast as possible with the least amount of misloads or missorts. I doubt that they would put the slowest worker in a position to affect hir/her production numbers. If they would, then they would be sealing their own fate. The bottom line is union or no union, if you give 110%, do your job as directed and are a productive team member then you'll have nothing to worry about. As for TSG being union, it really wouldn't affect my feelings at all. I have been out of UPS for over two years. :peaceful:
     
  9. brownrodster

    brownrodster New Member

    The union is definately not there to benefit UPS. It is there soley for the workers.

    And as to your question in another thread, "why does UPS keep the union around." They really have no choice. With a labor force this large some union will organize them. Get rid of the teamsters and some other union steps in.

    As far as I know its the workers rights to unionize.
     
  10. 959Nanook

    959Nanook Member

    As much as I disagree with part-time wages at UPS (I took about a 40% pay cut before the union takes their cut), I also have health coverage. In my opinion, the initial lack of coverage for new hires under the new contract should have been compensated with higher wages. For my own personal reasons and the hiring conditions for my center, the situation was worth seeking employment with UPS rather than one of the other union skill trades where I could have made more money in the short run (at a sacrifice I was not willing to make for family and personal reasons).

    I also know that if I am patient, I will have an opportunity to give an honest day's work (as opposed to the honest hours' work I give now) for an income that surpasses anything I could have ever earned at Wal-mart or any of my previous civilian jobs. I know that I will go home every single night and weekends are mine. This was a career move that came with sacrifices and has rewards. Wal-mart never even showed up on the list of possible careers.
     
  11. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    There is a difference between 110% for a 50 year old and a 25 year old. Without seniority, the 50 year old veteran could be s.o.l. because he simply cant keep up with the young gun. And what are these so called "crucial" jobs you are talking about?
     
  12. Tony31yrs

    Tony31yrs New Member

    The relationship between UPS and the Teamsters benefited both sides over the years. UPS got a stable, hard-working workforce with guidelines to make the job bearable for both sides. Workers whose reputation helped build the biggest delivery service in the world.
    Workers got good pay, benefits and pension. As I used to tell customers who asked about the union at UPS, "If it wasn't for the union, you'd have a different immigrant with a green card in here every day!"
    The contract was negotiated by both sides and agreed to by both sides for mutual benefit. Is it sometimes abused by both sides?-definitely.
     
  13. Bad Gas!

    Bad Gas! Active Member

    The work force has made UPS a highly profitable company for many years.Since most workers are union employee's, I would have to say the union has made UPS a highly profitable company...There are poor employee's....and there are many, many poor managers that the slack has to be picked up from.....a better question for this thread...How can management communicate better with thier employee's?....It's a rareity to get good communication and feedback...They all run around with thier head cut off where I'm at..
     
  14. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    here's what I don't see and what really bothers me about the teamsters.

    Don't get me wrong. I think most of our people try to do a good job and are proud of the job they do. This is more about the teamsters union as a whole.


    My father in law was a construction type unionist. His union preached pride in workmanship. Union quality at all times. They would throw "brothers" off the job who did not provide quality workmanship.

    I don't hear the teamsters selling the same concepts. I see many teamsters selling the company working you too hard, screwing you over concepts to disrupt pride in workmanship and morale.

    I don't think I've ever heard the teamsters try to sell pride in workmanship and I don't understand why?

    Where other unions market this concept it seems the teamster mindset has always been much more combative. The teamster mindset seems to be much more anti-company give them as little as possible.
     
  15. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    shouldn't the union be for the company also. Doesn't the company doing well also mean the union does well?

    Why is it a union leader having a close working relationship with the company is often viewed as a suck up or sell out?
     
  16. rod

    rod retired and happy

    Maybe it has something to do with the "mindset" of the company they are dealing with. The "no job you do is good enough" attitude don't seem to carry over to other trades covered by union contracts. None of my union carpenter friends that I know of have been told that they should pound the same amout of nails on a day that is 20 below as they do on a nice summer day. Or that they will be fired if they don't memorize 10 pages of "methods".
     
  17. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Rod are you kidding? you think ups is the only company with that mindset?
     
  18. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    I also think that the relationship between UPS and the Teamsters has gotten worse for 2 other reasons. One: when Carey was Teamsters president he changed the way the two did business (good or bad? you decide) and Two: Ever since IE has started calling the shots instead of operations, it has changed the way UPS does things.

    Since you started the thread Tie I'll ask you (maybe this should be a new thread?): What is your opinion about IE running things?
     
  19. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member


    Ok, here, I'm only going to respond to things that I see and hear locally. Sure, I've seen news reports and horror stories from threads and posts on here but I don't personally witness them so can't comment.

    Locally, NOW, LISTEN PEOPLE, I'M SAYING RIGHT HERE IN MY LOCAL, we've seen our local be very supportive of the company. Tie, in your thread starter, you asked what the union has done for UPS. Well, I state this: The union has provided UPS with some of the best workers in the world. They've built this company up to be the largest package delivery company in the world. No, now don't jump down my throat and say the UNION didn't supply these workers. I know that! The union has negotiated wages and benefits so that has weeded out most (Note: MOST) slackers. And on that point, is it the union's job to screen employees? Is it the union's job to train employees? Is it the union's job to "crack the whip" every day over their heads? Union membership is open to almost everyone that gets hired. It's up to the company to mold them into a good worker, if they ain't already. It's merely the union's job to protect that worker from wrong practices. OK, that is open to interpretation so go ahead.

    Here, I attend most general membership meetings. For the past 10 or more yrs, the BAs have stood up and admonished all of us to DO OUR JOBS! DO NOT CHEAT. DO NOT LIE! DO NOT SKIP YOUR LUNCH! WORK AS DIRECTED! I haven't heard one word from any BA or steward (well, I take that back. There is one steward that tried to get me to pad a grievance I filed, but I refused) that said we should try to screw the company any chance we get! Not ONE time! In fact, with all I have seen in hearings (no, I'm not a steward but have been in lots o meetings), I'm surprised that they still take this stand.

    I have been with BAs that actually stood up for the company on many occasions. Yeah, maybe sometimes we get outta hand and file "frivolous grievances"? The local BAs have had to say "Back off this one pal".

    I could go on and on but I feel we have a great work force due to our bennies that the union has negotiated. I, for one, feel that I'll work my arse off for this kinda $. I'll go and HAVE gone the extra mile many times for service and for the company. Why? My "Baby Boomer" work ehtic? Maybe. But I feel that for what the company is paying (due, in part again, because of the union) I'll give an honest day's work for an honest day's pay.
     
  20. brownIEman

    brownIEman Active Member

    This is an interesting paragraph. Do you realize you are contradicting yourself here? You are claiming in the first half of the paragraph that it is the union negotiated pay and benefits that weeds out the slackers. Then later on, you ask is it the union's job to screen employees and train and crack the whip, as you say, to get the best work from the best workers. Of course we both realize the answer to these last questions is no, it is the company's responsibility. So, really, it is the company's responsibility to make sure it has the best workforce possible and get the most out of them. It then follows that it is the company (ie Management) that drove this company through that workforce to become the largest delivery company in the world. The union is there to make sure those workers are treated well and compensated justly for their considerable efforts.

    Anyway, sounds like things are running as they should be in your center, and that is a good thing. In order for this company to continue to be successful, there needs to be a more cooperative relationship between management and the bargaining unit workforce. That means less anti-company emotional rhetoric on the part of union folks, and better communications and adherance to the contract on the part of management. IMO.

    As to the original question, what does the union give to UPS. Simple, it gives a unified frameworke for negotiating compensation and work condition rules. I believe it was in the 50's that the Teamsters were invited in to represent UPS drivers by Jim Casey and co. Yes, invited. At the time UPS was expanding to different regions of the country, and smaller unions were organizing drivers in these different regions. The UPS leadership at the time saw the advantage of having one entity to negotiate with instead of who knows, 5, 10, 20 different smaller unions, so the Teamsters were invited to organize all the drivers.