What Happened To The Air Force?

[DriveInDriveOut]

You call it torturing, yet, that is the very technique that is used to drown proof our special ops forces as well as many of the conventional forces in our military .

Call it whatever you like, it is useless for gathering intelligence. Actually it's less than useless, as bad information is worse than no information at all.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Call it whatever you like, it is useless for gathering intelligence. Actually it's less than useless, as bad information is worse than no information at all.

Many in the military, CIA, NSA, and other agencies would disagree with you. Do you really think they are going to share just how affective it actually is (as in examples) with the general public just to appease a bunch of pansie liberals? LOL. NOOOOOPE!

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Many in the military, CIA, NSA, and other agencies would disagree with you. Do you really think they are going to share just how affective it actually is (as in examples) with the general public just to appease a bunch of pansie liberals? LOL. NOOOOOPE!

They're going to keep it a secret that something everyone already knows they do is actually working, for what purpose? They want everyone to think they're barbaric morons? Logic is not your strong suit is it?

Here you go champ, educate yourself a little bit:
Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA torture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

They're going to keep it a secret that something everyone already knows they do is actually working, for what purpose? They want everyone to think they're barbaric morons? Logic is not your strong suit is it?

Here you go champ, educate yourself a little bit:
Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA torture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now you're REALLY not making sense. So now your saying you agree it works? And the info in your link is so disputable it's hardly worth discussing. The report itself even says it's been called inaccurate by those they were involved. Annnnnnnd.......... the report doesn't target water boarding specifically. But nice try though. You really thought that link was proving something didn't you? LOL. How cute.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Now you're REALLY not making sense. So now your saying you agree it works? And the info in your link is so disputable it's hardly worth discussing. The report itself even says it's been called inaccurate by those they were involved. Annnnnnnd.......... the report doesn't target water boarding specifically. But nice try though. You really thought that link was proving something didn't you? LOL. How cute.

Like I said, logic isn't your strong suit.
The report speaks for itself, keep your head in the sand if it's what you need to do. Heaven forbid you actually have to question your government and military and hold them accountable, I'm sure they have your best interest in mind, lmao.

 

[Babagounj]

Oh PLease.... you would only vote for WEST because he is a deranged maniac.

Devoid of common sense, and useless as a leader of his troops under his command.

Had his troops not turned on him and testified against him, he would still be in the army today. But he isnt.

Today, he is a disgrace to the military and a hero in your mind. (says alot about you)

TOS.

And just how many of the troops in his old unit are still in ?

 

[The Other Side]

West actually retired from the Army and the indecent that he got in trouble for consisted of him firing a pistol next to a prisoner's head. Now i know that seems beyond harsh to you liberals but you people tend to feel that way regardless of the circumstances that leads to someone pulling a trigger.

Can you please point out to us all, where in the military manual that is says firing a gun near the ear of a prisoner is standard operating proceedure?

Then, ask yourself how you support a man who faced a court martial, then struck a deal to retire vs. being charged.

WEST was no military hero.

TOS.

 

[The Other Side]

And just how many of the troops in his old unit are still in ?

Still in what?

 

[Babagounj]

Can you please point out to us all, where in the military manual that is says firing a gun near the ear of a prisoner is standard operating proceedure?

Then, ask yourself how you support a man who faced a court martial, then struck a deal to retire vs. being charged.

WEST was no military hero.

TOS.

Oh, you think all wars are to be fought by following the rules set down it a book. Like tab A goes into slot A .
What if the enemy does not read from the a similar book?

The incident in question happened in 2003 August 20 at a military base in Taji, just north of Baghdad, when West was interrogating an Iraqi policeman, who was believed to have information about a plot to assassinate West with an ambush on a U.S. convoy.
In testimony at an Article 32 hearing West said the policeman, Yahya Jhrodi Hamoody, was not cooperating with interrogators, so he watched four of his soldiers from the 220th Field Artillery Battalion beat the detainee on the head and body.

West said he also threatened to kill Hamoody. Military prosecutors say West followed up on that threat by taking the suspect outside, put him on the ground near a weapons clearing barrel and fired his 9 mm pistol into the barrel.

Apparently not knowing where West's gun was aimed, Hamoody cracked and gave information about the planned ambush on West's convoy, thwarting the attack.

West said there were no further ambushes on U.S. forces in Taji until he was relieved of his leadership post on October 4.
After an Article 32 hearing was held , West accepted non-judicial punishment, was fined $5,000, and allowed to retire as a lieutenant colonel.

 

[Gear]

Here's a little tidbit for you, Gear.

My former Marine step-father landed on Iwo Jima in the seventh wave on the first day. He stood just below the men raising the flag.

Although he has been a registered Republican all his life, he is one of the most socially liberal people I have ever met.

He's still a Marine. I'd be willing to bet he would never change any Marine Corps traditions to agree with his personal views. Wars are won with discipline and obedience to orders. Not by being politically correct and concerns for others feelings.

God
Country
Corps

Personal views--This is something you can have after your enlistment is over.

 

[The Other Side]

Oh, you think all wars are to be fought by following the rules set down it a book. Like tab A goes into slot A .
What if the enemy does not read from the a similar book?

The incident in question happened in 2003 August 20 at a military base in Taji, just north of Baghdad, when West was interrogating an Iraqi policeman, who was believed to have information about a plot to assassinate West with an ambush on a U.S. convoy.
In testimony at an Article 32 hearing West said the policeman, Yahya Jhrodi Hamoody, was not cooperating with interrogators, so he watched four of his soldiers from the 220th Field Artillery Battalion beat the detainee on the head and body.

West said he also threatened to kill Hamoody. Military prosecutors say West followed up on that threat by taking the suspect outside, put him on the ground near a weapons clearing barrel and fired his 9 mm pistol into the barrel.

Apparently not knowing where West's gun was aimed, Hamoody cracked and gave information about the planned ambush on West's convoy, thwarting the attack.

West said there were no further ambushes on U.S. forces in Taji until he was relieved of his leadership post on October 4.
After an Article 32 hearing was held , West accepted non-judicial punishment, was fined $5,000, and allowed to retire as a lieutenant colonel.

Again, tell me where this is OK?

Where, do we train our soldiers to conduct themselves like this? WEST was worried about an ambush? And his actions somehow prevented other attacks??

Oh please. IS that really your intelligence level?

Our troops are under attack daily as we speak. WEST's actions solved nothing.

We are a partner to the geneva conventions, and by that, we have rules to follow. The enemy is not, but that doesnt mean "WE" become animals and uncivil.

WEST:

""Suddenly, on October 4, West was relieved of his command. On October 18th, two weeks to the day before he would become vested in his army retirement program, West was told he either had to resign or face court martial. Not wanting to lose his pension, West refused. His offer to resign after his benefits kicked in was rejected. An Article 32 hearing–the military equivalent of a grand jury–heard the charges against West in November. The results of that hearing are due any day, and may recommend felony charges against West.""

Non judicial punishment in simple words is "A PLEA BARGAIN" to avoid criminal charges being filed against him.

YOU, trying to make it sound like he did nothing wrong is laughable. West interfered with the interogation of a policeman because he felt the two WOMEN who were interrogating him were not handling the job properly. WEST was no fan of female soldiers.

WEST ordered some of his men to come with him, sat in front of the policeman with his pistol on his lap, WEST repeatedly THREATENED to kill the man while his soldiers beat on him under direct order, then when he wouldnt talk, WEST ordered the policeman taken outside. Again, WEST threatened the man and fired his weapon into the air and the man would not talk. At that point, WEST directed the man to be beaten again and eventually they took him to the ground near a discharge box.

They placed the mans head near the discharge box and WEST fired his weapon near the policemans head.

The man "alledgedly" talked naming names.

Nothing came of the "naming" as the base commander ordered WEST to remain out of sight. West told his commander of the incident when asked, and the commander did not report the incident. A cover up took place until one sgt reported the incident to JAG. After an investigation, WEST was arrested and charged.

The system worked and WEST was allowed to take the sissy way out and keep some of his dignity.

WEST was disgrace to his unit and to the Army.

In politics, he was also a giant disgrace.

TOS.

 

[bottomups]

He's still a Marine. I'd be willing to bet he would never change any Marine Corps traditions to agree with his personal views. Wars are won with discipline and obedience to orders. Not by being politically correct and concerns for others feelings.

God
Country
Corps

Personal views--This is something you can have after your enlistment is over.

Since there are many muslims in the Marines.

Allah
Country
Corps

 

[Gear]

Since there are many muslims in the Marines.

Allah
Country
Corps

Your statement in completely false. How did you come up with that?

Doesnt matter anyways, all Marines are green.

 

[Babagounj]

I value a leader by his actions , not by what is politically correct .

Do away with the ROE that states after an attack if the enemy is no longer firing at you and retreating , you are to stop firing at them .

That is no way to win .

The best winning policy is to make the other guy die for his beliefs .

 

[The Other Side]

I value a leader by his actions , not by what is politically correct .

Do away with the ROE that states after an attack if the enemy is no longer firing at you and retreating , you are to stop firing at them .

That is no way to win .

The best winning policy is to make the other guy die for his beliefs .

So genocide.

Ok, your the genius. Lets kill all the iraqis who neither kill americans on 9/11 or had anything to do with it. Then, lets give animals like allen west the freedom to torture people and have his way, because thats how wars are won.

TOS.

 

[Lineandinitial]

So genocide.

Ok, your the genius. Lets kill all the iraqis who neither kill americans on 9/11 or had anything to do with it. Then, lets give animals like allen west the freedom to torture people and have his way, because thats how wars are won.

TOS.

Yet ANOTHER subject you are an expert on!!

Unreal!!

Have you ever witnessed a field interrogation (by ANY methods)? Probably not.

Just STFU and stick to your liberal rants. You're out of your league on this subject.
I can ASSURE you, that interrogators are not armchair warriors like you that are "experts" on everything.

In your terms: people!

 

[The Other Side]

Yet ANOTHER subject you are an expert on!!

Unreal!!

Have you ever witnessed a field interrogation (by ANY methods)? Probably not.

Just STFU and stick to your liberal rants. You're out of your league on this subject.
I can ASSURE you, that interrogators are not armchair warriors like you that are "experts" on everything.

In your terms: people!

Oh geez, another arm chair general in our midst.

Of course, when an army officer faces an article 32 hearing, then strikes a deal to RESIGN versus face prosecution, in your minds, he is a hero.

This is whats wrong with republicans.

TOS.

 

[Babagounj]

So genocide.

Ok, your the genius. Lets kill all the iraqis who neither kill americans on 9/11 or had anything to do with it. Then, lets give animals like allen west the freedom to torture people and have his way, because thats how wars are won.

TOS.

Who said anything about genocide , oh you did .
Is that what you think happens ?
No, our ROEs allow these retreating soldiers to come back to kill again and again and again.

 

[The Other Side]

Who said anything about genocide , oh you did .
Is that what you think happens ?
No, our ROEs allow these retreating soldiers to come back to kill again and again and again.

How about we "WIN" by not invading a country that had done nothing to us? Rather than let loose the allen wests of the world to rape a country?

TOS.

 

[Lineandinitial]

Oh geez, another arm chair general in our midst.

Of course, when an army officer faces an article 32 hearing, then strikes a deal to RESIGN versus face prosecution, in your minds, he is a hero.

This is whats wrong with republicans.

TOS.

You don't know about me, so shut your ing mouth.
You're just a little man that never did anything but criticize. I bet you're a coward.