What is considered harassment by supervisors?

[tieguy]

Thank God that the above statement is only one management persons deluded fantasy and not the reality.

The company's interpretation of what constitutes a "fair days work" is, at best, an educated guess and at worst a deliberate, cynical attempt to intimidate its employees into taking unsafe shotcuts and working off of the clock in a desperate attempt to meet an impossible "standard."

I shudder to think of what life at UPS would be like if the idiots from I.E. who do our so-called "time studies" were actually allowed to define what constitutes a "fair day."

Sober don't be such a drama queen. The statement you quoted is a basic of any employer / employee relationship.

 

[tieguy]

I was referring to changing pay in a negative way to reflect less work being done.
I wonder how many drivers on bonus systems actually make bonus because they did more than a fair days work, and how many just have a good time study?

Union goon excuse number 19c - If someone does a better job then I do then he is either somehow cheating the system or the company has rigged the measurement in his favor.

 

[tieguy]

The standard of work is a common sense issue. It is obvious to everybody who the slackers are and I'll never understand why the union is so adamant about defending them.

The unions strongest support comes from those who are too weak to hold a job without the unions help.

 

[tieguy]

I have been wanting to see a copy of "job descriptions" for FIVE YEARS...

human resources can supply you with a description of the essential job functions. Your boss tells you his expectations every day through pcm and personal talk withs.

 

[tieguy]

Show me this person... and how many over 70s or irregs this person has... How many package cars are they loading and what is there amount of misloads.

Our person no longer handles those packages instead they accomadated the person by moving her to an easier keying positions where she still struggles.

 

[soberups]

Sober don't be such a drama queen. The statement you quoted is a basic of any employer / employee relationship.

When I first became a driver, I was told by my supervisor that "scratch" on the WOR was what constituted a fair day's work....and that anything less than that was unacceptable.

This is the same sup that was waiting for me behind the truck in the A.M. with a termination letter, threatening to fire me for being overallowed. Look up the term "drama queen" in the dictionary and his picture will probably be there.

I never got fired. I'm still here. He isn't.

 

[dannyboy]

all right, lets have at it. dannyboy's " pick your post apart cause your posting bs"

first i would like to know how tie pegged you for a "she/her"

I have a supervisor who's really riding me.... I'm too slow so he watches every single move I make and gives very annoying pointers and corrections to what I'm doing

lemme see here, watching every single move, but then you write

I don't get harassed all day every day, more like about 3 times every day for about 15 minutes at a time....... but enough for me to notice. Some other guys are telling me not to let him yell at me like that ...... and he does yell at the people lifting the boxes a lot too, but it still bothers me.

so you just posted that you exaggerate a lot to allow yourself to be a victim. some would call this lying.

two other things, he gives you pointers and corrections that you find very annoying??????? lol all over my self. we are so sorry, we will find a better way to train you so you dont get annoyed

also, now instead if all the time, its down to 3 times a day, for 15 minutes a day? and with you proven penchant for untruths, could be much less as well. less than 45 minutes of training a 5 hour day, when you are an under performing employee in a job where things get backed up when you dont do your job properly, cause you get very annoyed when they show you how.

btw, since he also screams (another untruth?) at the other workers like he does you, why didnt they file(like they told you to do?)

I'm a PAS clerk who can't really type all that fast and he's not really that understanding of that fact

yes sir, i would have a hard time dealing with that as well. i am trying to teach a %^$^ how to do one of the most simple jobs ups has, and the %^$^ has the gall to just get annoyed instead of learning the job. and the manager is not very understanding of your issue? maybe hi needs to take some sensitivity classes to be able to deal with your (not typed, trying to hold it together here)

What he's doing specifically is standing behind me while I work and commenting on how slow I'm going. Sometimes he'll correct some boxes himself saying "this is easy, this is easy, just do this"

again, this is called training. ups sups do it all the time, and all employees get taught this way........except those too very damned annoyed to learn

he'll call somebody (presumably the supervisor of the next shift where all my backlogged work is going) and say something like "I'm gonna send you extra work because I have this slow-ass PAS clerk" or something. You know, the basic stuff.

been there 4 months and you still dont know if the guy he is talking to is management or not? while i do realize their skin is not green, management should be pretty easy to pick out after 4 months.

as for the slow-assed comment, there you go again......

I know of some people in my building that flat out refuse to work and not get punished.

again with the lies. where in the world do you think that one will be believed?

I've already admitted that I'm slow at the job and was moved two times..... I've only been on the job 4 months, I haven't started anything with anyone, and I don't see why it is that I deserve to be screamed at just because I'm not performing to their standards, especially since I wasn't brought in as a PAS in the first place.

what can i say, its not that you are slow, its that you get very annoyed when someone tries to show you how to do your job (urgh, taking second blood pressure med today)

But I think I see what you guys are saying

problem is you dont see. cause unless we all form a circle around you, hold hands and say things to make you feel better, everything else just gets very annoying, doesnt it

and then of course the famous

I'll stop by his office tonight when I get in and try to explain my view.

who da hell cares about your view. the job is not about you, the issue is not about you, its about the job, and someone that is so slow, youve been shoved around to the easiest job there is (and you still bitch about that, cause you were not hired for that job), and you still screwed it up, you refuse that very annoying training that those paid to train you are attempting to do, and claim that is harassment?

its no wonder the steward told you that you do not have any grievance

and finally, i find it so interesting that you are so slow when it comes to typing at work, but yet there are no problems at the brown cafe......

folks, another reason BC is the ultimate site for upsers with problems. ms very annoyed came here with severe typing issues, and she has been healed. healed i tell you!

a miracle!!!!! NOW IF WE CAN GET HER TO QUIT LYING maybe if we all hold hands and make her feel better about herself.......

d

tie, please find out who the maroon is that is annoying this very sensitive pas clerk and either fire him, or make him take sensitivity training again and again, then fire him anyway for keeping something like this on the payroll

note to self, call 401k office and sell stock if this is what ups is reduced to putting on the payroll

 

[atatbl]

UPS is free to place whatever expectations it wishes upon me. If those expectations are realistic, I will live up to them. If they aren't realistic...then I wont.

I have done routes where bonus could be made while working safely and taking a lunch. I have also done routes with allowances that were so absurd that anything better than two hours overallowed was physically impossible.

I have shown up in the morning and been confronted by a supervisor holding a termination letter in his hand who told me that he would have my job if I failed to run a "scratch" day.

I didn't run a "scratch day"....and I'm still here.

I work in the real world. Sometimes my management chooses to join me there. Other times, they dont. I get paid the same either way. It is what it is.

I completely understand the frustration you are speaking about. Did this supervisor ever ride with you? Maybe even for three days?

 

[soberups]

I completely understand the frustration you are speaking about. Did this supervisor ever ride with you? Maybe even for three days?

No, the supervisor didnt ride with me because to do so would have forced him to confront the reality that the time allowance was not accurate.

Once a timestudy is done, the allowance might as well be chiseled in stone. It will not be changed. You cant appeal it. You cant argue with it.

My sup was feeling the heat from above, and reacting out of fear. He was just a scared little man who couldnt make his numbers come out, and the only solution he felt he had was to try and intimidate me into skipping my lunch and breaks in order to solve his problem for him.

I dont have a problem with UPS expecting a fair day's work from me. The key word is "fair."

 

[dillweed]

all right, lets have at it. dannyboy's " pick your post apart cause your posting bs"

first i would like to know how tie pegged you for a "she/her"

lemme see here, watching every single move, but then you write

so you just posted that you exaggerate a lot to allow yourself to be a victim. some would call this lying.

two other things, he gives you pointers and corrections that you find very annoying??????? lol all over my self. we are so sorry, we will find a better way to train you so you dont get annoyed

also, now instead if all the time, its down to 3 times a day, for 15 minutes a day? and with you proven penchant for untruths, could be much less as well. less than 45 minutes of training a 5 hour day, when you are an under performing employee in a job where things get backed up when you dont do your job properly, cause you get very annoyed when they show you how.

btw, since he also screams (another untruth?) at the other workers like he does you, why didnt they file(like they told you to do?)

yes sir, i would have a hard time dealing with that as well. i am trying to teach a %^$^ how to do one of the most simple jobs ups has, and the %^$^ has the gall to just get annoyed instead of learning the job. and the manager is not very understanding of your issue? maybe hi needs to take some sensitivity classes to be able to deal with your (not typed, trying to hold it together here)

again, this is called training. ups sups do it all the time, and all employees get taught this way........except those too very damned annoyed to learn


been there 4 months and you still dont know if the guy he is talking to is management or not? while i do realize their skin is not green, management should be pretty easy to pick out after 4 months.

as for the slow-assed comment, there you go again......



again with the lies. where in the world do you think that one will be believed?

what can i say, its not that you are slow, its that you get very annoyed when someone tries to show you how to do your job (urgh, taking second blood pressure med today)


problem is you dont see. cause unless we all form a circle around you, hold hands and say things to make you feel better, everything else just gets very annoying, doesnt it

and then of course the famous



who da hell cares about your view. the job is not about you, the issue is not about you, its about the job, and someone that is so slow, youve been shoved around to the easiest job there is (and you still bitch about that, cause you were not hired for that job), and you still screwed it up, you refuse that very annoying training that those paid to train you are attempting to do, and claim that is harassment?

its no wonder the steward told you that you do not have any grievance

and finally, i find it so interesting that you are so slow when it comes to typing at work, but yet there are no problems at the brown cafe......

folks, another reason BC is the ultimate site for upsers with problems. ms very annoyed came here with severe typing issues, and she has been healed. healed i tell you!

a miracle!!!!! NOW IF WE CAN GET HER TO QUIT LYING maybe if we all hold hands and make her feel better about herself.......

d

tie, please find out who the maroon is that is annoying this very sensitive pas clerk and either fire him, or make him take sensitivity training again and again, then fire him anyway for keeping something like this on the payroll

note to self, call 401k office and sell stock if this is what ups is reduced to putting on the payroll

Four smile post

 

[New Englander]

No, the supervisor didnt ride with me because to do so would have forced him to confront the reality that the time allowance was not accurate.

Once a timestudy is done, the allowance might as well be chiseled in stone. It will not be changed. You cant appeal it. You cant argue with it.

My sup was feeling the heat from above, and reacting out of fear. He was just a scared little man who couldnt make his numbers come out, and the only solution he felt he had was to try and intimidate me into skipping my lunch and breaks in order to solve his problem for him.

I dont have a problem with UPS expecting a fair day's work from me. The key word is "fair."

Who gets to decide "fair", you or the company?

In all honesty...in coming up on 6 years the only drivers I've seen talked to about performance are the real slackers. You know......the ones who every cover driver comes in with better numbers on their route.

We have several routes that have way to tight allowances but.....perhaps it's just my management team can figure the averages out and tell if he's doing fine or not.

 

[705red]

Well theres is a 70lb limit every UPSers is supposed to be able to lift repetively to hold their job, is that not a standard to base production off of, if i have to have 2 employees do the job of one, why have the one when the 2nd can do the job just fine?

You must be able to lift up to 70lbs, 70lbs and over requires a two (union) employee lift. But you being a supervisor knew this and you were just pulling my leg right?
The job description your handed when your hired determines a fair days work.
so if you cant do you job description you need to worked with, followed up with, warned and told you may need to find another job.

Whos ever been handed a job description? Your told what the job details are, but when it comes to pph hog wash! Those are meerly guidelines that management uses to boost productivity. And than you attempt to post these numbers to make others feel insecure and in an attempt to have them perform better. Which is a violation of the contract for your information.

where does it say the driver has to deliver all his airs on time in the contract?

It doesnt and not all the drivers do and they dont get into trouble for it! every day we have late air in my center and its acceptable. Its part of the cost for busting out routes which the company can live with, but not the drivers that goes out there the next day that his route is in to hear the customer complain.


Where does it say the loader has to check every package in the contract.

The contract does not set performance and service standards the company does.

You give the bonus to those that you want and thats fine im against the bonus system personally but i also run 2 hours over plan and thats something my management team must live with for short changing my time on my route.

Contact says fair days work for fair days pay , company decides what a fair days work equals.

really how many people have you fired for not giving a fair days work?

Just to clarify, then; My benefits are good (and they are) because the Union fights to keep an unqualified whiner in a position they cannot handle?

I am Union. I am union because I must be to be employed with UPS. I am a UPS employee. I am glad, thankful that my benefits, pay are above average. I do believe that Unions were very necessary back in the days of employee abuse. I have also recently seen a family member completely abandoned, ignored by a union that could not be bothered.

Sorry, I know this is gonna piss alot of people off, but as a human, look in your heart for a second; I am uncomfortable, embarassed even, at the thought of time, energy, and my union dues going towards a greivance because someone is being supervised because they cannot handle the second, more cushy job they have been given. This person would have been rightfully terminated at any non-union shop in the world, but instead of going to Staples to by Typing Tutor, they are gonna complain that they are being harassed? Personal responsibility, standards. Get some.

How do you know that this person isnt hurt, an ada, disabled etc. There are laws and even the evil brown empire must live upto. The point is ups has a probationary period and this is the time to weed out the people that dont make it. Now this person has a right to a fair trial period to get upto 40 words a minute and ups must accomodate.

human resources can supply you with a description of the essential job functions. Your boss tells you his expectations every day through pcm and personal talk withs.

Unless my boss wrote the description for all the buildings in my local his description is no good!

Who gets to decide "fair", you or the company?

In all honesty...in coming up on 6 years the only drivers I've seen talked to about performance are the real slackers. You know......the ones who every cover driver comes in with better numbers on their route.

We have several routes that have way to tight allowances but.....perhaps it's just my management team can figure the averages out and tell if he's doing fine or not.

I was a swing driver and i have busted my ass on some routes without a lunch and been an hour over and yet i have had 2 hour lunches an other routes and bonused 2 hours. Thats not fair but if you get caught up with whats fair or not at ups it will be a very long career. The only thing you can control is one stop at a time and keep the wheels moving and at the end of the day you have gotten paid for every minute that you have worked.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

We are supposed to pull the PAL placed near the Worldship Label to "properly load"

When a package is properly loaded the Worldship labels faes the front cab. We peel off the PAL so that it faces the outside - it can be seen when looking at the shelf... Loaded stop for stop...

Let me see if I got this right. Your SPA people take the time to scan, print and apply the PAL label just to have your preloader pull the PAL label and reapply it to the side of the package before he loads it. Is it just me or is that counter-productive? No, I have never worked on the inside and only found out what SPA stood for a couple of weeks ago but, even so, why doesn't the SPA person simply put the label on the side of the box, which would then save the preloader this extra step.

Maybe it's just me, but I just don't see the purpose of this extra step, especially when the preload is already rushed to get off the clock.

 

[hyena]

OMFG!!!!! You think because someone made their 30 days they can't be all that bad?
Do you even work for UPS?
Well obviously the sups wanted him then if not why did they give him senority
He did not come on here asking for advice about how to do his job better. He came on here to ask for advice on management hounding him for not working fast enough.

Ok and I told him FILE A ARTICLE 37! OMFG!

 

[New Englander]

Ok and I told him FILE A ARTICLE 37! OMFG!

Lol...you honestly think supervisors put the effort into doing the 30 day folder? Happens all the time. People who should not make it.....sneak through or the Union pushes them through - seen that as well.

My god...I honestly don't think you work for UPS.

 

[hyena]

Lol...you honestly think supervisors put the effort into doing the 30 day folder? Happens all the time. People who should not make it.....sneak through or the Union pushes them through - seen that as well.
All my god are you saying a sup didnt do his job? Maybe next time he will. Because he didnt do his job right to begin with doesnt mean he has the right to harass the employee.
My god...I honestly don't think you work for UPS.

I could care less what you think

 

[hyena]

Your saying this guy should be terminated for not being able to do his job. I think the sup should be terminated for not doing his!

 

[Mike Hawk]

Let me see if I got this right. Your SPA people take the time to scan, print and apply the PAL label just to have your preloader pull the PAL label and reapply it to the side of the package before he loads it. Is it just me or is that counter-productive? No, I have never worked on the inside and only found out what SPA stood for a couple of weeks ago but, even so, why doesn't the SPA person simply put the label on the side of the box, which would then save the preloader this extra step.

Maybe it's just me, but I just don't see the purpose of this extra step, especially when the preload is already rushed to get off the clock.

1. The spa person won't know what side of the box will be facing out when the loader loads it so they don't know what side to put it on. Also that side might be covered by another box next to it.
2. At max capacity SPA people scan packages at or faster than 1/second so it is not easy to stick the label anywhere else other than the top even if he knew what side the label should go on.
3. If the label is on the side the person splitting the belt must flip over every package scanned by the SPA person on the opposite side of the belt to check which side of the belt it goes on, at max belt capacity it is hard enough to keep up splitting the belt so putting labels on the top of the box is a must.
4. Easier to check for bad SPA labels when the shipping label is next to the SPA label.

 

[Mike Hawk]

Union goon excuse number 19c - If someone does a better job then I do then he is either somehow cheating the system or the company has rigged the measurement in his favor.

In your head every time study is 100% acurate, but the rest of us can see the truth.

 

[CRASH501]

drew were is this in the contract? You do know that the union does not recognize production standards. There is no quota someone needs to hit to keep his job.

A fair days work for a fair days pay.


It sounds like this rookie is in a newer job and will need some time to get used to typing.

.
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I so agree i give these s.o.b.'s a days work for a days pay nothing more nothing less