What is the UPS end game with the current health care proposal?

[Bagels]

This also may sound stupid or at the very least not practical, but really what needs to happen is a contract that is settled now. Get UPS and the teamsters stand together in the public to fight the FEDex contract model that is not only killing UPS and the teamsters, but also the American tax payers.

The public doesn't care. If you perform a Google search, you'll quickly discover that most people who are aware of driver's total compensation package believe they're overpaid. On our own forums, numerous drivers are quick to describe a floor minimum wage of $10/hour (no benefits) for fast food & retailer workers as "excessive," yet describe their own compensation as being inadequate. It's all about perception.

 

[kingOFchester]

The public doesn't care. If you perform a Google search, you'll quickly discover that most people who are aware of driver's total compensation package believe they're overpaid. On our own forums, numerous drivers are quick to describe a floor minimum wage of $10/hour (no benefits) for fast food & retailer workers as "excessive," yet describe their own compensation as being inadequate. It's all about perception.

You are cherry picking statements, while missing the entire point. Fred is bending laws. Fred is avoiding taxes. Fred is gaining market share. All the while we are all worried about ourselves, including UPS and the stock holders.

Illustration. You got two criminals trying to rob a bank. They have a good plan. They even have the keys to the vault. They have the funds and ability to get into the vault. But they are arguing over how to divvy up the cash. Who is going to do what. How they are going to do it. Fighting each other every step of the way. Meanwhile you got a guy, on his own, picking away at the back of the vault. Piece by piece. At some point he gets through and gets the mother load. Meanwhile the bumbling fools are out front with nothing. They had the keys, but couldn't work together.

AGAIN, no concessions. We should give nothing. Just pointing out that we are ALL (teamsters, UPS, stock holders) missing the main predator.

 

[Bagels]

The last contract, the one we are currently under, was the WEAKEST contract in the history of teamsters at UPS. It showed the least amount of improvements while letting inflation rise faster than our wages. It purposely took a vague approach on important issues like 9.5 language, so that UPS could "interpret" the language however they wanted.

If anything.. we need to be taking a bigger step forward with this new contract, to offset the lack of improvements from our last one!

That inflation is rising faster than driver's wages is simply untrue, and yet another popular fallacy on BrownCafe. When the current contract began, top rate was $28.17. Factoring/compounding the annual rate of inflation of 6.6%, that means that $28.17 on January 1, 2008 is worth $29.86 on January 1, 2013. Yet UPS drivers are earning well in excess of $32, thus receiving raises well ahead the rate of inflation. Various online inflation calculators will verify my math.

I do agree, however, that the last contract was a huge concessionary contract. But mostly for the PTers -- the deferment of benefits for 12/18 months made first-year employee costs dirt-cheap on paper, thus leading the company to increase its PT staffing. As a result, I wind up begging for my guarantee most days whereas in years past I worked 22-25. I made more money working Preload in the late 2000s than I have this decade, despite $4+/hour wage increase.

 

[Bagels]

You are cherry picking statements, while missing the entire point. Fred is bending laws. Fred is avoiding taxes. Fred is gaining market share. All the while we are all worried about ourselves, including UPS and the stock holders.

Illustration. You got two criminals trying to rob a bank. They have a good plan. They even have the keys to the vault. They have the funds and ability to get in to the jackpot. But they are arguing over how to divvy up the cash. Who is going to do what. How they are going to do it. Fighting each other every step of the way. Meanwhile you got a guy, on his own, picking away at the back of the vault. Piece by piece. At some point he gets through and gets the mother load. Meanwhile the bumbling fools are out front with nothing. They had the keys, but couldn't work together.

I am not cherry picking statements, and I fully agree with your assertions. But I'd easily bet my life that the public isn't going to sympathize with us. Over my lifetime, we've seen the heart of middle class ranks within this country nearly disintegrate; full-time retail employees who've been with their company long-term barely make $20,000 annually - often without benefits (sometimes not offered, sometimes too expensive). Even the average regional airline pilot, which operate more than half the commercial flights in this country under brands such as American Eagle, Delta Connection, earn about $25,000 annually, despite years of training often costing $100,000 or more. Meanwhile, the professional jobs that once formed the foundation of the upper middle-class now constitute the new middle class. Nobody is going to feel bad for UPS employees earning $32/hour, or flinching at FedEx's tax-cheating tactics We've come to accept mediocrity in this country.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

That inflation is rising faster than driver's wages is simply untrue, and yet another popular fallacy on BrownCafe. When the current contract began, top rate was $28.17. Factoring/compounding the annual rate of inflation of 6.6%, that means that $28.17 on January 1, 2008 is worth $29.86 on January 1, 2013. Yet UPS drivers are earning well in excess of $32, thus receiving raises well ahead the rate of inflation. Various online inflation calculators will verify my math. .........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Ups profit per hour is up waaaayyyy more than our raises per hour!!!Do the math on that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!They dont feel sorry for us....How can we feel sorry for them? Did you get an 8.8% raise in your pay check like the shareholders did?..NOT...I guess companies that do not make a profit can raise their dividend!!!Givebacks MY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!One of these days I may say whats really on my mind..LOL

 

[Bagels]

.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Ups profit per hour is up waaaayyyy more than our raises per hour!!!Do the math on that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!They dont feel sorry for us....How can we feel sorry for them? Did you get an 8.8% raise in your pay check like the shareholders did?..NOT...I guess companies that do not make a profit can raise their dividend!!!Givebacks MY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!One of these days I may say whats really on my mind..LOL

I'm certainly not advocating givebacks. I'm merely pointing out that UPS drivers have done well since the last strike, seeing their wages flourish well beyond the rate of inflation. Since the strike, most other workers have seen their purchasing power shrink -- either because their paycheck hasn't kept up with inflation, or because they've had to make steep contributions toward their benefits. But if you're in top management, you've done well for yourself as well, seeing you wages flourish well beyond the rate of inflation as well.

That's why unions are necessary, contrary to public perception.

 

[brown_trousers]

Understood. Still think its time UPS and teamsters take on the tax shelter that Fedex is using. They can beat us in price. As their network gets bigger, their cost will go even lower. As we loose market share, our cost will go up and or profit go down. lets stop fred, then the world will be ours. Short term loss for long term gain. Fundamentally, I feel this is what is wrong with most people. Gratification now, consequences later. Unfortunatelyy, the consequences come home. I am not saying we should give anything. Not saying we could ever work together with UPS to fight Fred. Just stating that if we excepted that current contract going forward and took on Fred, it could result in a better payday, or at the least a secure future. I do not think UPS and the teamsters could ever work together. UPS will always be out for theirs, as the Teamsters will always be out for their's too.

UPS and the Teamsters have the same goal. We also have the same enemy that could take the purse. We fight each other as Fred gets closer and closer. JMHO

It wouldn't matter if you gave UPS every concession they asked for, instead of addressing the FedEx issue you speak of, they would instead just divy up all the extra profits and give them to the shareholders and executives.

 

[kingOFchester]

It wouldn't matter if you gave UPS every concession they asked for, instead of addressing the FedEx issue you speak of, they would instead just divy up all the extra profits and give them to the shareholders and executives.

Oh and I agree. I guess my point is missed do to poor delivery. Just stating what I think needs to be done. Not what is in the realm of possibility.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I think it's pretty simple.

If the Teamsters want to eliminate excessive OT for drivers or anyone, "production standards" for workers, this will result in the need for more employees. If we think about UPS cutting routes and leaving numbers of drivers in the red, this is an effort to reduce H&W contributions and paid hours. The company probably saying: if you want us to add more routes and work more people, we're not going to pay for it.

Probably a gross oversimplification.

 

[brown_trousers]

Oh and I agree. I guess my point is missed do to poor delivery. Just stating what I think needs to be done. Not what is in the realm of possibility.

I understand your point. We need to address the FedEx issue. I agree. But unfortunately, If we gave UPS any help/concessions, they would just pay it out to their investors and executives instead of putting that extra cash flow towards destroying FedEx.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

somtimes saying less is more, You said it pretty good

 

[bbsam]

I understand your point. We need to address the FedEx issue. I agree. But unfortunately, If we gave UPS any help/concessions, they would just pay it out to their investors and executives instead of putting that extra cash flow towards destroying FedEx.

And how would you propose destroying FedEx? Hmmmm. Sounds like a thread.

 

[kingOFchester]

And how would you propose destroying FedEx? Hmmmm. Sounds like a thread.

Lobbying. UPS spent a little over 5million in '12. FedEx, close to 12 million in '12. Close down the contractor model.

Top issues lobbied bf Fedex :

1. Transportation
2. Aviation, Airlines & Airports
3. Labor, Antitrust & Workplace
4. Taxes
5. Postal

UPS top issues:

1. Health Issues
2. Trade
3. Taxes
4. Labor, Antitrust & Workplace
5. Transportation

FEDEX: "the company has been a major campaign contributor to both Democrats and Republicans and is famous for its unique lobbying tactics, including the fleet of private planes that it keeps on stand-by for lawmakers who need to jet off at a moment’s notice."

opensecrets.com

 

[kingOFchester]

How many drivers does UPS employ in the USA?

 

[jim50321]

Few things to keep in mind. If the health care premium would be in the contract, it will effectively wipe out any ability to keep up with inflation. For full time drivers it amounts to about a 7%-%10 pay decrease (I believe those premiums come out of your after tax take home pay). It would take them a couple of years to catch up. 15% for 22.3 jobs that are less pay and usually capped at 40 hours a week. Par timers the amount varies by seniority. For both part-time and 22.3 they would never catch up.

I recently talked to a driver I know who works in Omaha, NE. He has been talking to a couple of stewards who say part timers in the union with 10+ years wanting to go driving or get a 22.3 have told him they would ditch the union to use the dues money to pay for the benefits. Nebraska is a RTW state. How many part time dues paying members in such states would the union lose under such a contract?

Personally I see the writing on the wall for the company to dump part-time benefits in exchange for no health care premiums and sweetened pension for full time employees. The door was opened when benefits were deferred on the last contract.

We also need to be aware of the company trying to bargain away 22.3 jobs. I'don't think they will try to eliminate current jobs, but will try to have provisions that no new ones will be created and that as 22.3 jobs are vacated they convert back to 2 part-time jobs saving the company paying benefits for one full time employee.

 

[UnloadDrone]

How many drivers does UPS employ in the USA?

Not sure but the rough number of Teamsters at UPS is over 240,000.

 

[3 done 3 to go]

Us in upstate Ny. Are just over 30 an hr. Due to our local absorbing 4 raises this contract. I d love to get the 2 plus back. We will never see what rest of the country makes. Local has best pension in country.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

How many drivers does UPS employ in the USA?

Not as many as they should!!