What should be done when teamsters are found to be working for UPS off the clock?

[Integrity]

To All,

For discussion:

This behavior was addressed in another post.

What corrective action must be taken when your brother teamsters are found to be working off the clock for UPS?

I know many probably don't want the hassle that goes with reporting, or as some would say "ratting out", the guilty member, but who's the real rat in this instance.

I can't help but view a union member that would harm their union brothers by working for UPS for free as anything but a detriment to unionism in this country.

I think there is enough sympathy in our country for corporations against unions and the working class.

It is worse when the sypmathy is coming from the very working class the unions are protecting and the corporations are oppressing.

Sincerely,
I

 

[stink219]

To knowingly harm another member in ANY way is against the oath we took as Teamsters. But their penalty would be astronomical if they sustained an injury or accident while off the clock.

 

[packageguy]

To All,

For discussion:

This behavior was addressed in another post.

What corrective action must be taken when your brother teamsters are found to be working off the clock for UPS?

I know many probably don't want the hassle that goes with reporting, or as some would say "ratting out", the guilty member, but who's the real rat in this instance.

I can't help but view a union member that would harm their union brothers by working for UPS for free as anything but a detriment to unionism in this country.

I think there is enough sympathy in our country for corporations against unions and the working class.

It is worse when the sypmathy is coming from the very working class the unions are protecting and the corporations are oppressing.

Sincerely,
I

Working off the clock is a no no,
if he is injured or in a Accident that is not good for UPS, or for himself,
Falsifying records I could go on and on, as far as ratting out a driver, I don't believe in that, if I know of somebody doing I would take him to the side and explain what he is doing is wrong.

 

[packageguy]

To All,

For discussion:

This behavior was addressed in another post.

What corrective action must be taken when your brother teamsters are found to be working off the clock for UPS?

I know many probably don't want the hassle that goes with reporting, or as some would say "ratting out", the guilty member, but who's the real rat in this instance.

I can't help but view a union member that would harm their union brothers by working for UPS for free as anything but a detriment to unionism in this country.

I think there is enough sympathy in our country for corporations against unions and the working class.

It is worse when the sypmathy is coming from the very working class the unions are protecting and the corporations are oppressing.

Sincerely,
I

I know for sure, UPS would firer him with Integrity issue, cannot be trusted.

 

[rudy5150]

If you work off the clock your an idiot plain n simple. If your injured off the clock you can be fired. Why would you possibly wanna work off the clock anyways?

 

[UnconTROLLed]

File a grievance towards UPS for allowing the employee to work off the clock. That is my suggestion.

Our lead steward has filed and been paid for many Teamsters working off the clock, also for working paid breaks.

 

[kingOFchester]

If you work off the clock your an idiot plain n simple. If your injured off the clock you can be fired. Why would you possibly wanna work off the clock anyways?

Happened and may even still be happening in my center. They want drivers off by 19:00 (9.5). We are a bonus center. Driver does over 11 hours of work. He clocks out at 18:59 while driving back to building. Driver makes out on the bonus end (he wants as much work as he can get). Center team makes out because it helps them make "stops per car" and under 9.5's.

I could not imagine putting myself on the line like that........as a driver or as a manager. he gets into an accident and they find he was clocked out and then they dig deeper and see that he routinely clocked out while driving and everyone involved will be out on the streets.

 

[Brownslave688]

File a grievance towards UPS for allowing the employee to work off the clock. That is my suggestion.

Our lead steward has filed and been paid for many Teamsters working off the clock.

Yeah see this is what I see as the problem. Who do I report them to?

The company obviously doesn't care. The union is most cases (not saying its right) will probably just say well if he/she wants to work for free that's their problem.

I confront drivers all the time for working off the clock. I simply tell them its stupid to worn for free. If they get hurt they are screwed. They are cheating themselves and so on. I don't go any farther than that though.

 

[AZBrown]

I would keep it in house, and take it to the BA. I don't consider that ratting.
For all the listed reasons above that a driver could get nailed for, the BA could tell him how UPS will wash their hands of it once an accident happens.
The driver being warned, you can only lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

 

[Coldworld]

Damn you guys, this kind of thing is probably happening more than most people know....and when drivers do this behavior it validates poor allowance standards...as the norm....really not good

 

[UpsYours]

Talk to the guy and explain that you don`t work off the clock because if something bad happens like an injury or accident to you UPS will not feel bad for you.

 

[Integrity]

I have enjoyed many of these responses.

I think addressing the idea of what would happpen in the event of an accident or an injury while working off the clock is important but I think it is missing the real points.

In my opinion there 2 main points here:

The act by a teamster arguably is stealing money from other teamsters who could do the work or potential teamsters that may be required by reporting these unreported hours.

Point 2 is that working off the clock does not absolve UPS from having to pay for this work, in my opinion someone is entitled to it if the guilty party does not want it.

The union officials should see that someone is paid and this practice would most likely cease.

Sincerely,
I

 

[PiedmontSteward]

I have enjoyed many of these responses.

I think addressing the idea of what would happpen in the event of an accident or an injury while working off the clock is important but I think it is missing the real points.

In my opinion there 2 main points here:

The act by a teamster arguably is stealing money from other teamsters who could do the work or potential teamsters that may be required by reporting these unreported hours.

Point 2 is that working off the clock does not absolve UPS from having to pay for this work, in my opinion someone is entitled to it if the guilty party does not want it.

The union officials should see that someone is paid and this practice would most likely cease.

Sincerely,
I

You're actually raising a very important and valid issue, Integrity. Working off the clock is something within the culture of UPS - unfortunately - and we should do everything we can to curb it. I see it all the time in hub operations.. area setup guys working 15-20 minutes off the clock because they don't want to get yelled at for their belt not being ready to roll by start time. Hell, there are 4-5 employees in my own area that are guilty of this. Two are scabs and a lost cause. The other two have been doing it for at least a decade (way before my time) and are simply in the habit of doing that. I tell them it's wrong and inform them of the consequences, but they continue. Not to get all high and mighty, but I have a theory that production harassment actually causes psychological damage and these workers are behaving like an abused individual. One of the guys that's guilty of this in my area actually admits he does it because he "doesn't want to be fussed at when his numbers drop in the middle of the night."

 

[Integrity]

You're actually raising a very important and valid issue, Integrity. Working off the clock is something within the culture of UPS - unfortunately - and we should do everything we can to curb it. I see it all the time in hub operations.. area setup guys working 15-20 minutes off the clock because they don't want to get yelled at for their belt not being ready to roll by start time. Hell, there are 4-5 employees in my own area that are guilty of this. Two are scabs and a lost cause. The other two have been doing it for at least a decade (way before my time) and are simply in the habit of doing that. I tell them it's wrong and inform them of the consequences, but they continue. Not to get all high and mighty, but I have a theory that production harassment actually causes psychological damage and these workers are behaving like an abused individual. One of the guys that's guilty of this in my area actually admits he does it because he "doesn't want to be fussed at when his numbers drop in the middle of the night."

Piedmontsteward,

I strongly agree with the above theory!

What can be done to stop the abuse?

Sincerely,
I

 

[PiedmontSteward]

Piedmontsteward,

I strongly agree with the above theory!

What can be done to stop the abuse?

Sincerely,
I

One idea I have is to inform members how much money they're giving the company in free work every year and how they're basically giving a multibillion dollar company charity work. Tally up a rough estimate of how much they do for free daily, x5, x52, x estimated hourly rate. We used to have a guy (thankfully, he's retired now) that would come in and work off the clock for 2+ hours a day just to be away from his wife. He was part-time and a total lost-cause; he had been doing the same thing for 15+ years. It's better to catch the young guys and tell them what they're doing and the consequences of them getting hurt off the clock.

Drivers can encourage other drivers to get on the 9.5 list so they don't sort their truck for free or skip their lunch.

 

[superballs63]

We have a bunch of guys in my hub that do it, and one of them came to the PCM the other morning sweating already and when I asked him, he was like yeah, I got it all sorted.

He has been a driver longer than I have and it's shocking that he continues to work for free. You want me to start working earlier, then you should adjust my start time. I refuse to do ANY work off the clock, aside from grabbing my board and log and tossing my stuff in the truck.

 

[QKRSTKR]

I have enjoyed many of these responses.

I think addressing the idea of what would happpen in the event of an accident or an injury while working off the clock is important but I think it is missing the real points.

In my opinion there 2 main points here:

The act by a teamster arguably is stealing money from other teamsters who could do the work or potential teamsters that may be required by reporting these unreported hours.

Point 2 is that working off the clock does not absolve UPS from having to pay for this work, in my opinion someone is entitled to it if the guilty party does not want it.

The union officials should see that someone is paid and this practice would most likely cease.

Sincerely,
I

if your seeing this behavior going on, isn't it your responsibility to write a grievance and have a steward process it to be paid for the time worked? It's not the "union officials" job, if your a teamster, then it's yours.


Article 17 : the employer will not allow employees to work prior to their start time without appropriate compensation.

So u see I , its UPS s responsibility, and if they allow it and your a teamster, it's your job to enforce the contract. How can your "union officials" know there is a problem if they don't have a grievance on it? Get writing I.

Sincerely

Q

 

[Anonymous 10]

To All,

For discussion:

This behavior was addressed in another post.

What corrective action must be taken when your brother teamsters are found to be working off the clock for UPS?

I know many probably don't want the hassle that goes with reporting, or as some would say "ratting out", the guilty member, but who's the real rat in this instance.

I can't help but view a union member that would harm their union brothers by working for UPS for free as anything but a detriment to unionism in this country.

I think there is enough sympathy in our country for corporations against unions and the working class.

It is worse when the sypmathy is coming from the very working class the unions are protecting and the corporations are oppressing.

Sincerely,
I

grieve it under article 17. Ask that the violator be paid for working and this will start the progressive dicipline on the said employee. This will make them stop it.

 

[InsideUPS]

To knowingly harm another member in ANY way is against the oath we took as Teamsters. But their penalty would be astronomical if they sustained an injury or accident while off the clock.

Teamsters working off the clock are the same ones that would cross picket lines in the event of a strike. File Article 17 as mentioned and don't feel one ounce of shame for doing it. Simply put, these people are stealing from bargaining unit work, helping to falsify production numbers (dishonesty), and are putting themselves at jeopardy in the event of an injury... not to mention what they are doing to the production standards expected of other employees.

 

[Anonymous 10]

Teamsters working off the clock are the same ones that would cross picket lines in the event of a strike. File Article 17 as mentioned and don't feel one ounce of shame for doing it. Simply put, these people are stealing from bargaining unit work, helping to falsify production numbers (dishonesty), and are putting themselves at jeopardy in the event of an injury... not to mention what they are doing to the production standards expected of other employees.

Grieve it