What Should We Do If Fred Wins?

LTFedExer

Well-Known Member
If the RLA exemption were eliminated, how many stations would go union? If you believe FedEx Driver, LT FedExer and the rest, they'd say something like "a handful". How many is that? 3 or 4 stations full of bad-attitude "troublemakers" like me? So why not just drop the exemption and let FedEx deal with a couple of stations that choose to go union? FedEx could easily handle that. After all, aren't our pilots union? The company didn't fail, did it? That also begs this question. If the pilots were so happy, why did they vote for a union...twice? The first one was in-house, and the second one was ALPA. Simple logic should provide an answer. After all, these guys were already making good money and working for the best boss in the world. Why oh why would they want a union?

The reality is that an overwhelming number of locations would go union, and everyone knows it. Once again, what are all of you afraid of since the "overwhelming" majority of employees do not want a union. Are the rest of us going to force them to sign cards? Come on, Fred, just let it go and have us vote. Why can't you do that?
Again you try and put words in my mouth. I have no idea how many stations would go union. I wouldn't even try to guess. You sound like you're scared of a national vote (under current conditions)....yet you say a majority of stations would vote yes. Which means the majority of FedEx employees would vote yes.....no?
FedEx would never pay people off directly. They'd pressure people the same way they always have, through intimidation and harassment.
And exactly who would they intimidate and harass? How would they know which courier is voting which way?
But hasn't the RLA exemption been eliminated with the NMB rules change? We can now have a national vote with a simple majority of participating employees, not possible before. Now the issue is whether we'll do it that way or, if Congress approves it, be classified under the NLRA and have local elections. So no matter what Congress does now we can still vote in a union. FedEx certainly thought the new rules were unfair to them, challenging it, and losing, in court.
vantexan.....you don't seem to understand. MrFedEx is worried a national vote wouldn't vote in a union and that would be the end of it.


Just a little FYI......I have NO IDEA how I would vote. I've been in a union and have seen the pros and cons. The part that worries me is SOME people would vote FOR the union for the wrong reasons.
MrFedEx, you say you're not on Hoffa's payroll. Fine, I'll accept that. However, don't try and shove the union down my throat and accept it all as fact and the only way to be. You almost sound the religious fanatic trying to convert the world.
 

The Mayor

Well-Known Member
Not certain, but I believe it would have to be a simple majority of employees voting yes to get the union in. Are you sure you must sign a union card before being allowed to vote?

Yes, only those votes that will be counted are by those that sign cards...
 

The Mayor

Well-Known Member
I don't see them paying people off. First, they'd have to pay a very large number of people a substantial amount of money. I'm pretty certain that would be highly illegal and there are way too many loose ends involved. It's not like they can run down to skid row and recruit bums for $20. You'd have to have enough people willing to break the law and keep quiet about it. And they'd have to be employees. Just trying to recruit tens of thousands of people would set off rumors. And land people in jail. And I doubt those people are going to serve prison terms quietly out of loyalty to FedEx. Life isn't a nicely written movie script. Scandals like these are messy, and those at the top have too much to lose. Better to just scare people with the evils of unions, pretty easy to do in a bad economy. It's up to the union to educate employees about the realities of being in a union. I've heard opinions all over the map about what would happen if we unionized, and since I'm in an anti-union area the opinions are mostly negative. If a union gets in, it'll have to be in more friendly areas, assuming we're under the NLRA. I think the more conservative areas will come around when they realize they aren't getting better pay like the others. But if we have a national vote under the RLA that's a moot point.

I personally think a national vote under the RLA would be best. Local votes under the NLRA would mean union busting moves by FedEx at the local level, picking the stations off as they go union while the rest of the company has business as usual. Literally united we stand, divided we fall. What kind of measures might they employ? How about showing up to work one morning and finding yourself locked out by corporate security? People hired behind the scenes, getting the work done using the ROADS system for both sorting freight and delivering it with ROADS manifest. Has anyone here actually used the ROADS manifest to run their rts by? So why was it implemented? There it sits, ready to be used. I think the urgency to get ROADS up and running was part of a contingency plan if the NLRA language was voted in. Remember that Congress has dragged their feet on the FAA bill. It could have easily been voted on last year when FedEx was rolling out ROADS.

I don't think FedEx really wants to spend massive amounts of money to divert freight to Ground and screw 10's of thousands of employees. Not to mention the bad PR they'll get and goodwill lost when public realizes they aren't the funny guys in the commercials. My guess is that FedEx has another plan in place, and that may be what ROADS is for. Part-timers for the sort and P1 deliveries. FTers coming in later for SOS and pups. This would eliminate most overtime and save them a huge amount of money, improving profits. And if it's their intent to keep pay progression to a trickle, it will get very tough for alot of people if they can't count on OT to meet their obligations. FedEx is of course counting very much on a victory in Congress to implement these plans. But the NMB threw a big monkey wrench into the works with the RLA rules change. So all is not lost. Just remember, FedEx may make an offer to increase pay to prevent a RLA national vote. But if they then implement a plan to not only eliminate all OT or even hold FTers to 35-37 hrs, you may not be any better off than now. I'm just hoping I won't be worse off. My point on all this is that about the only leverage we'll have is a union, or at least the right to vote for one. FedEx still holds most of the cards, and they will do whatever it takes, legally, to make sure they maintain profit margins and a high stock price.

A lot of what you say here is your post is true. However, I don't know how familar you are with the Federal Unionization Laws. If the company wanted to get class action law suits, tampering law suits, etc... ( at the Federal Level I may add), then they could do so. Did you know that it is illegal for a Company representative to negatively voice their opinion about unionizing with out the other side their to counter their opinion? Meaning that for management to say they are against it and not to have a represesentative there of the union to talk about benefits or pros, this is not supposed to happen. Also, in my location it hasn't been discussed because of the 30 day count rule. What this means is that no member of management is allowed to discuss it because a vote is expected within a 30 day time period.
You can look up all of the union rules, laws, and regualtions under the Federal code. These are just a couple of them.........


Anyways, getting back to my point. Mr. Smith's biggest pet peeve is negative p.r. on the company. So, with that being said, how much more do you think he would get if even more lawsuits were brought up for union tampering?
 

The Mayor

Well-Known Member
But hasn't the RLA exemption been eliminated with the NMB rules change? We can now have a national vote with a simple majority of participating employees, not possible before. Now the issue is whether we'll do it that way or, if Congress approves it, be classified under the NLRA and have local elections. So no matter what Congress does now we can still vote in a union. FedEx certainly thought the new rules were unfair to them, challenging it, and losing, in court.

Vantexan, this is correct. Just a heck of a lot more involved...but possible. This might be what Jimmie Jr. was waiting for.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Again you try and put words in my mouth. I have no idea how many stations would go union. I wouldn't even try to guess. You sound like you're scared of a national vote (under current conditions)....yet you say a majority of stations would vote yes. Which means the majority of FedEx employees would vote yes.....no?

And exactly who would they intimidate and harass? How would they know which courier is voting which way

vantexan.....you don't seem to understand. MrFedEx is worried a national vote wouldn't vote in a union and that would be the end of it.


Just a little FYI......I have NO IDEA how I would vote. I've been in a union and have seen the pros and cons. The part that worries me is SOME people would vote FOR the union for the wrong reasons.
MrFedEx, you say you're not on Hoffa's payroll. Fine, I'll accept that. However, don't try and shove the union down my throat and accept it all as fact and the only way to be. You almost sound the religious fanatic trying to convert the world.[/QUOTE

Whatever. Just drop the RLA and let us vote. Then we'll all know how much "love" is out there for FedEx.
 

LTFedExer

Well-Known Member
Whatever. Just drop the RLA and let us vote. Then we'll all know how much "love" is out there for FedEx.
The only way to know 'how much love there is for FedEx' is to see if the MAJORITY votes the way you say they will, not just station by station. Even if 1/2 + 1 stations voted for union, that wouldn't mean the majority of workers for it.


P.S. Where can I get a position like yours where I can go online and post all day?
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
A lot of what you say here is your post is true. However, I don't know how familar you are with the Federal Unionization Laws. If the company wanted to get class action law suits, tampering law suits, etc... ( at the Federal Level I may add), then they could do so. Did you know that it is illegal for a Company representative to negatively voice their opinion about unionizing with out the other side their to counter their opinion? Meaning that for management to say they are against it and not to have a represesentative there of the union to talk about benefits or pros, this is not supposed to happen. Also, in my location it hasn't been discussed because of the 30 day count rule. What this means is that no member of management is allowed to discuss it because a vote is expected within a 30 day time period.
You can look up all of the union rules, laws, and regualtions under the Federal code. These are just a couple of them.........


Anyways, getting back to my point. Mr. Smith's biggest pet peeve is negative p.r. on the company. So, with that being said, how much more do you think he would get if even more lawsuits were brought up for union tampering?

Not certain but are you agreeing with me or correcting me? If you look at my post again you'll see I said the same thing. Bottom line, it ain't over if FedEx gets the NLRA language deleted from the final FAA bill.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Yes, only those votes that will be counted are by those that sign cards...

That seems strange to me. Before the rules change all employees had to participate in a vote under the RLA. If you chose not to vote you were counted as a no. It's my understanding now it's a simple majority of those who actually participate in the vote. If only 10,000 employees participate, and 5001 vote yes, then the union is in. Why would those who vote no be required to sign a union card first before being allowed to vote? You, I'm assuming, need to be a card carrying member to vote on union issues, but to get a union in or keep it out is a separate thing altogether. But I may be wrong.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
The only way to know 'how much love there is for FedEx' is to see if the MAJORITY votes the way you say they will, not just station by station. Even if 1/2 + 1 stations voted for union, that wouldn't mean the majority of workers for it.




P.S. Where can I get a position like yours where I can go online and post all day?

That's a matter of opinion isn't it? IMO, the vast majority of locations would choose to go union. Smith's all-out effort to keep the RLA exemption is proof-positive of this...otherwise, why spend all of those millions? That's Logic 101, a course you've never taken.

I monitor this site several times a day, and typically respond via mobile technology while waiting for a customer to get ready, on 28/29 or during my lunch. My usual reply takes me about a minute or two, and it doesn't disrupt my day or my productivity. Like I said, I'm a 7.0 employee for now, but that will change soon enough.

Sorry that you are glued to your Radio Shack desktop.
 

LTFedExer

Well-Known Member
That's a matter of opinion isn't it? IMO, the vast majority of locations would choose to go union. Smith's all-out effort to keep the RLA exemption is proof-positive of this...otherwise, why spend all of those millions? That's Logic 101, a course you've never taken.

I monitor this site several times a day, and typically respond via mobile technology while waiting for a customer to get ready, on 28/29 or during my lunch. My usual reply takes me about a minute or two, and it doesn't disrupt my day or my productivity. Like I said, I'm a 7.0 employee for now, but that will change soon enough.

Sorry that you are glued to your Radio Shack desktop.
I understand your point, but your argument is based on the assumption that most employees would vote for the union. If you are so sure the majority would vote for a union, let's take a vote now and find out.

Radio Shack, lol I don't think so. You're always good for a laugh or 2 a day. Funny how you resort to, what you consider, insulting comments when someone challenges you on a point.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I understand your point, but your argument is based on the assumption that most employees would vote for the union. If you are so sure the majority would vote for a union, let's take a vote now and find out.

Radio Shack, lol I don't think so. You're always good for a laugh or 2 a day. Funny how you resort to, what you consider, insulting comments when someone challenges you on a point.

Challenge away...I welcome it. Lets vote...right now. It doesn't even have to be binding. I'm confident that Fred's worst fears would be realized. I guess you haven't been listening, because making the RLA go away would allow us to vote terminal by terminal right now. Let's do it and give Fred that vote of "confidence" he needs.
 
That's a matter of opinion isn't it? IMO, the vast majority of locations would choose to go union.
Thats your problem.You think that every Fedex employee is just like you.How do you know the majority of employees think all over the country.Just because you want a union in your little station doesnt mean the rest of us do.Ive worked in many Fedex stations in my 11 years,from coast to coast and the majority of employees that i've met were happy with their job.I dont want a union and the majority of Fedex workers don't want one either.

Just accept it .
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
Thats your problem.You think that every Fedex employee is just like you.How do you know the majority of employees think all over the country.Just because you want a union in your little station doesnt mean the rest of us do.Ive worked in many Fedex stations in my 11 years,from coast to coast and the majority of employees that i've met were happy with their job.I dont want a union and the majority of Fedex workers don't want one either.

Just accept it .

You may not want a union and that's fine but you seem to be doing everybody else's thinking for them. Something like Fred would do ("our employees don't want a union, but I better pay off these lobbyists on Capitol Hill just in case") . You must be working at Station 1, Fantasyland or you're a management plug.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Thats your problem.You think that every Fedex employee is just like you.How do you know the majority of employees think all over the country.Just because you want a union in your little station doesnt mean the rest of us do.Ive worked in many Fedex stations in my 11 years,from coast to coast and the majority of employees that i've met were happy with their job.I dont want a union and the majority of Fedex workers don't want one either.

Just accept it .

If a union isn't voted in most likely it will be due to the bad economy. People are worried. If it was 2007 no doubt if given the opportunity most would vote yes. Why? Because FedEx was doing well but giving very little to us. I still think the majority will still vote yes given the chance. If you believe the opposite then let's settle it with a vote. And then we can just accept it.
 

LTFedExer

Well-Known Member
Challenge away...I welcome it. Lets vote...right now. It doesn't even have to be binding. I'm confident that Fred's worst fears would be realized. I guess you haven't been listening, because making the RLA go away would allow us to vote terminal by terminal right now. Let's do it and give Fred that vote of "confidence" he needs.
I have been listening/reading. What I'm saying is even if a majority of STATIONS vote for the union, that doesn't mean a majority of workers would want it. I would love a vote right now and I will happily live with the results, no matter which way it goes.
Thats your problem.You think that every Fedex employee is just like you.How do you know the majority of employees think all over the country.Just because you want a union in your little station doesnt mean the rest of us do.Ive worked in many Fedex stations in my 11 years,from coast to coast and the majority of employees that i've met were happy with their job.I dont want a union and the majority of Fedex workers don't want one either.

Just accept it .
I agree with the 1st, but we don't know the 2nd as a fact.
If a union isn't voted in most likely it will be due to the bad economy. People are worried. If it was 2007 no doubt if given the opportunity most would vote yes. Why? Because FedEx was doing well but giving very little to us. I still think the majority will still vote yes given the chance. If you believe the opposite then let's settle it with a vote. And then we can just accept it.
False. The IBT will promise you the world to get you to vote the union in, even if they know they can't deliver. The IBT just wants your money for their underfunded pension.....nothing more, nothing less.
That's an outright lie. We have never voted on a union at FedEx. Get your facts straight.
At least not in my 10 1/2 years.....
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I have been listening/reading. What I'm saying is even if a majority of STATIONS vote for the union, that doesn't mean a majority of workers would want it. I would love a vote right now and I will happily live with the results, no matter which way it goes.

I agree with the 1st, but we don't know the 2nd as a fact.

False. The IBT will promise you the world to get you to vote the union in, even if they know they can't deliver. The IBT just wants your money for their underfunded pension.....nothing more, nothing less.

At least not in my 10 1/2 years.....

Again, whatever. I don't trust the IBT either, but I already know what I've got with Fred S, and that's a big, fat ZERO. At least with Hoffa, I have a chance to get a better deal. I fully realize that there are no guarantees.

IMO, we already have a majority willing to go union. Everything Fred has done is common knowledge in the stations, and employees are starting to see what rancid little player he is.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
False. The IBT will promise you the world to get you to vote the union in, even if they know they can't deliver. The IBT just wants your money for their underfunded pension.....nothing more, nothing less.

What's false about "IF the union ISN'T voted in most likely it will be due to the bad economy. People are worried." What does my statement have to do with the IBT? Yeah, I know it's their union, but I was talking about employees' motivation for NOT voting for the union.
 
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