What'dyabringmetoday???
Well-Known Member
Never said they would. Never mentioned that. I said delivery and feeder work should be done only by full-time employees.
what would be most important about our next contract
- Thread starter packageguy
- Start date
Old International
Now driving a Sterling
The problem with starting early IS THE HUBS. UPS is processing so much volume thru the hubs that they just can't get the feeder runs out the door in time. The centers are also having problems getting the trls unloaded. In my center, between 0530 and 0730, they have to process over 400 percent, spread over 5 trls. Since our center can only unload a 100% trl in 38-42 minutes, guess what- The sort is going down around 0815 to 0845.
And I still think that protecting our benefits should be our #1 priority.
And I still think that protecting our benefits should be our #1 priority.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Crowbar, you are kidding, right? I mean, how many times do I get a free pass to coldcock you before UPS can fire me???? You want 20??? Man, you have to get a grip on yourself if you have issues like that.
Yes, the starting part time wage at UPS is a sin. IT does need to be addressed. But so do a lot of things as well.
I keep hearing about drivers being OK with wages stagnating, as long as benefits increase. Wont happen. Benefits have sky rocketed way faster than wages ever have. It is quickly becoming the largest cost past wages.
I attended a tax class to make sure I was charging tax on things I needed to, and learn about the exemptions. One of the classes was on unemployment insurance.
They told us we had to pay unemployment on even casual workers, even if we used them for only a few hours in a year. At my current rate, that is 3% of their wage.
Now, if I use this "employee" one day a month, and then dont need him again, I have to pay that 3% on his total wage. Problem is, that now he can go down and file a claim. Thats right, casual workers, after the first hour, can file an unemployment claim.
The result is that at the end of the year, the rate for my workers would be 24% of their gross wage. And that is just for unemployment tax.
The way things are getting, if I pay you $10 bucks an hour, it costs me almost $20 to have you working.
So it is getting way out of hand.
One thing that always was an issue is that of sups working. Someone else posted as well. They will keep doing it as long as there is no cost in relationship to the behavior. That needs to be changed.
d
Yes, the starting part time wage at UPS is a sin. IT does need to be addressed. But so do a lot of things as well.
I keep hearing about drivers being OK with wages stagnating, as long as benefits increase. Wont happen. Benefits have sky rocketed way faster than wages ever have. It is quickly becoming the largest cost past wages.
I attended a tax class to make sure I was charging tax on things I needed to, and learn about the exemptions. One of the classes was on unemployment insurance.
They told us we had to pay unemployment on even casual workers, even if we used them for only a few hours in a year. At my current rate, that is 3% of their wage.
Now, if I use this "employee" one day a month, and then dont need him again, I have to pay that 3% on his total wage. Problem is, that now he can go down and file a claim. Thats right, casual workers, after the first hour, can file an unemployment claim.
The result is that at the end of the year, the rate for my workers would be 24% of their gross wage. And that is just for unemployment tax.
The way things are getting, if I pay you $10 bucks an hour, it costs me almost $20 to have you working.
So it is getting way out of hand.
One thing that always was an issue is that of sups working. Someone else posted as well. They will keep doing it as long as there is no cost in relationship to the behavior. That needs to be changed.
d
UnconTROLLed
perfection
Delivery work = Part-timers art40 air work.
You said all delivery and feeder work should be done ONLY by FT employees.
For that to happen, the entire Article 40 would have to be rewritten and remove PT drivers. That's a fairy tale, sounds wonderful do not get me wrong, but not happening.
Yes ideally all PT driving work should be made FT. Heck, all PT jobs should be bid combined into FT. Also negotiate double time for OT, 10x for sups working grievances, $100/hr wages while we are at it...seems fair.
browniehound
Well-Known Member
I agree our ctr. manager would like us on road earlier and so would I. However, I don't think start times could be a negotiated item in the contract. In my humble opinion there are too many variables at play to make it a binding contract issue.
Still, they need to get us out on road earlier and I don't see why upper managment can't achieve that goal. I'm always told to "make it happen" when there is a question if I will make the air door or 9.5. I think upper management should just "make it happen" in this case. We used to start at 825 and now its 855. With all the improved technology, managment is getting worse at getting us out the door but they expect its drivers to do 10-20 more stops/day in the same amount of time because of the benefit of EDD/PAS. In other words they expect an improved performance from us because of technological and logistical improvements but can't actually improve themselves.
Who is looking at their numbers? Fed-Ex express is kicking our butt by showing up to every stop 20 minutes earlier than I do and our customers notice this. Forget about Fed-Ex Ground! They are delivering at 7 AM about the same time I'm rolling out of bed. Things like this really make believe its the drivers who make the company what it is. Can you imagine if every UPS driver was replaced by a Fed-Ex driver? HA! the company would be in real trouble THAT day! lol.
The system needs to be reset. They need to get the drivers back earlier so the sort can go down earlier among other things. To accomplish this they would have to add more routes and we all know this 'just ain't happenin'.
So we are stuck with an ever later start time, unfortunately.
At least thats the way I see it...
Anonymous 10
Guest
I wish we could get gold colored uniforms in the summer. That brown in July with 90+ and humidity is just out dated.
What'dyabringmetoday???
Well-Known Member
My point is this- we have part-timers working pre-load one day and then going out on the road the next. (not air, covering runs, not air) Also covering feeders under the same scenario. If they can do that, why not do it in reverse? The work is there and when part-timers continue to work 40 or more hours a week, how can that be considered part-time? I suppose you were being sarcastic about $100/hr wages, but I don't believe I suggested anything of the sort. Sorry to have (apparently) upset you with a few opinions. Typical of this forum.
browniehound
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you are trying to describe or predict in your post, but I can tell you not to hold your breath waiting for it to happen, because its never going to happen.
"Something ominous under foot"? LOL? Maybe its that load of crap you are trying to lay down, LOL??
PAS/EDD, automatic transmissions, telematics (not sure how this would assist a rookie driver but you said it), are not leading up to anything or plan to replace the current drivers and I'll tell you why. Our seasonal and summer vacation help is so babied and handled with kid gloves its not even funny. Our center management has no confidence in any outside help pulling a full route on their own. Instead, they are dispatched with 6 hours of work on routes that are mainly industrial on 2 or 3 streets and its been stripped entirely of its house calls.
If you think UPS is going to replace it entire driver ranks with these people, think again. They would have to dispatch 75% more routes than they currently do now.
They simply have no confidence in any outsiders because they know that each route is jacked to the point that its barely humanly possible. If the job was even a notch tougher, it couldn't be done by a human. So, obviously they can't put any shmoe off the street into a truck and say "go do the route" which is what you implied because of the benefits of EDD/PAS.
I'm still unclear on what happens after the 8th offense.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
That is a local supplement thing and not national contract. I thought we were collectively discussing the NTL contract.
I hear and understand what you are saying, we also have PT'ers working preload and THEN going on road eating hours/routes (supervisors as well).
The problem is that you cannot eliminate PT'ers from driving because of Art 40 and you never explained any reasonable solution around it. Article 40 is not changing .
The PT preload/ air drivers up here are the ones that come in and are asked to mop up the FT routes/shuttle work to keep routes as low as possible. It may be different where you are, but unless you are a steward and investigate the books you will never get a straight answer from either employee or employer.
One problem we have had lately are PT'ers coming in and stealing routes while FT covers (bid covers, 40 guar) are laid off, also stealing air work from FT 22.3s. These guys are making over 40 hours (in some cases 50-60).
Again, these issues CAN probably be resolved with some SUPPLEMENT language to each region that is affected. I agree with you there. However, "No more PT delivery/feeder work" nationally isn't reasonable IMO.
What'dyabringmetoday???
Well-Known Member
Again, Art. 40 has nothing to do with ground delivery and feeder work. My solution was clearly stated- full-timers perform this work. When there is not enough work, they perform pt work. The work load is not going to change, correct? I am simply saying that if you have part-timers working over 40 hrs., that is full-time, or rather, should be full-time.
I also understand, to an extent, your point about art.40. The company tends to hide behind much of the language in that article. IF we ALL stood together against the continuing abuses we might have a chance at changing some of these issues. I am sure you are well aware, it won't get solved by any of us typing some words on the internet.
I am really just looking out for the good of everyone. More full-time jobs, in my opinion, would be better than increasing the use of part-timers. Of course, this is an opinion.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
OH now you make that distinction
You had said delivery and feeder ; air operations are shuttle, delivering, meet points, airport runs, exception work ( grounds included) as you are probably aware. Most of that work, other than the airport shuttle work, is PT oriented.The use of PT and FT drivers for delivery of FT ROUTES, more like you were saying, are spelled out in supplements. Every region is different. Some regions have PT covers, some have PT or FT seasonal covers, some have FT bid area covers...then you have locals that negotiate their own deals (705 for ex)
It is difficult to stand together when each region is different, but I agree in principal.
Do you really think the company wants more FT jobs and less PT, throwaway high-turnover jobs? Do you believe the union wants more FT jobs? When the PTers contribute (at least here) more dues $49/mo versus $66/mo for FT. Also, the initiation fees from new hire turnover would be curtailed if the stability of mostly full time jobs entered the picture at UPS. Less jobs = less dues money. less turnover = less initiation fee. Seems like less money for union, unless pension/benefit monetary contributions were bumped up.
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All I can say is that I wish Canada UPSers had the balls of the Americans. I don't mean that as an insult, but we have no 9.5 language in our contract. All we have is the term excess overtime that really has no meaning. We also have no sick days.
Also, guaranteed 8. haha. 17 years and I think ive had maybe 3 days of less than 8, but still get paid 8. We get overtime shoved at us. The bottom 10 percent do not have a guarantee and are either laid off, or others voluntarely leave early or take the day off without pay.
Our contract sucks and are stuck with it for 6 years because Teamsters allowed a 500 dollar signing bonus to all employees so unknowledgable or inside workers such as admin or preloaders jumped all over that. We had some preloaders get their money with only being employeed for a couple of months. Fulltime drivers that don't want much overtime got the shaft.
We also do not have regional contracts.
Also, guaranteed 8. haha. 17 years and I think ive had maybe 3 days of less than 8, but still get paid 8. We get overtime shoved at us. The bottom 10 percent do not have a guarantee and are either laid off, or others voluntarely leave early or take the day off without pay.
Our contract sucks and are stuck with it for 6 years because Teamsters allowed a 500 dollar signing bonus to all employees so unknowledgable or inside workers such as admin or preloaders jumped all over that. We had some preloaders get their money with only being employeed for a couple of months. Fulltime drivers that don't want much overtime got the shaft.
We also do not have regional contracts.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
We do not have regional contracts (other than Local's 705 and 710)--we have supplements, which are addendums to the NMA and have language particular to the region covered by the supplement. For example, the supplement that I work under has an article dealing with emergency conditions due to snow storms. I would think that this article would not be in the supplement for Florida.
Signing bonuses can be both beneficial and detrimental.
Signing bonuses can be both beneficial and detrimental.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I see no benefit whatsoever to a one-time signing bonus.
A pay raise, on the other hand, basically lasts forever because it becomes the basis for all future increases.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
You are thinking from a FT hourly perspective and I agree with you. Think from the perspective of a PT hourly or from the company. They know that if you wave $500 in front of these kids they would agree to just about anything. These kids know that this is not their career and most could use the $500.
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
I don't think that starting earlier will help much with when you show up vs. FedEx express.
If you had an earlier start, you would deliver more ground while doing the air, right? The air commit would remain unchanged and more ground would be delivered on trace with the AIR???
If you delivered just air, then ground you would be right, but all that would do is increase miles and cost.
That would not be the intent of an earlier start.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
the fact that FedEx is delivering at 7am is a bit concerning, and not in a GOOD way, for FedEx. heh
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