Whats so Bad about this Contract?

[scratch]

Tieguy,

You might need to evaluate tooners over allowed, he is making way to much for pushing a wheelbarrow! LOL
Just kidding Tooner!! Get it while you can, RIGHT?

sawdusttv,
You stay on the Labor Forum too much. Tooner is a lady driver!!! And a darn fine one at that!!!

 

[TheVoice]

Wish that were true. many of the drivers running sleepers now make more then their onroad sups and close to the same as a manager. With the new increases in sleeper rates they will make more then their managers.

why do you feel my prescence here threatens your comfort zone? Are you afraid to hear a dissenting opinion. If so then famalirize yourself with the entire brown cafe community. You'll find quite a few distinctly different perspectives here. Somehow we all manage to appreciate each others views and opinions even when we get a little heated.

Some of my greatest insight here comes from the many fine posters that hang here and post here. If I closed my mind to their opinions due to their position or outlook then I would limit my ability to understand and learn from them.

We have a contract to debate now. that conversation promises to be pretty lively. When its finally said and done then we move on to other issues. Over the years the insight I recieve here has been a gold mine.

Thats why I sometimes chastise some of the single issue posters that come here. I'm not interested in keeping a fence up between me and the "other side". I would prefer we keep the sense of community we have built here over the years. If my prescence here somehow inhibits your ability to speak freely and to learn from this community then shame on you for letting me stifle you.

If you can move past that issue then grab a cup of coffee , pull up your favorite easy chair and join in.

You know, all our differences aside…I wish my manager talked and thought like this, we might get along better. Respect on that one suit

 

[sawdusttv]

sawdusttv,
You stay on the Labor Forum too much. Tooner is a lady driver!!! And a darn fine one at that!!!

My apologies (Ms.) Tooner!
Scratch, it was a joke, lighten up!!!!!

 

[scratch]

Scratch, it was a joke, lighten up!!!!!

I am lightened up! I understood you were kidding. Just covering my fellow Mod's back.

 

[BrownShark2]

This contract is bad for one simple reason, its a begining to an end.

While UPS continues to make record profits, it wants to take back from the very core of its operation. Without the hard work of the Teamster Employees over the many years, UPS would not be where it is today.

Look at Fedex, how many 25 year drivers can you count?? Fedex has an average turnover of 90 days for its drivers and sorters.

What about DHL? These guys barely speak english!

UPS seems bent on following this "model" for operations. Why? Who knows, it could only hurt the business not help it. Customers expect and demand a professional realtionship with their respective UPS driver and they would rebel if some non-english DHL type driver showed up with deliveries.

Reputation and consistency is what keeps our customers at UPS despite the higher prices of shipping. If price was the issue, we'd lose all of our volume to competition.

Lets remember that "our" hard work as employees makes this company what it is today and for that, we should and will demand a proper contract that gives nothing back.

I read alot of talk on this board from management types, yet, not one of them has taken an article and articulated anything positive about its construction or meaning.

So many threads on this board are filled with useless jibberish dancing around issues but yet , never really getting to the bone of the discussions.

While out here in So Cal., it looks like we have collectively shot down all three parts of the contract and we hope the rest of the country does the same.

Once shot down, our local better call a meeting of all of our members, listened carefully, re-establish what it is that bothers us and takes our suggestions and renegotiates aggressively until they bring us something worthy of a yes vote.

Peace.

 

[tieguy]

........and when one of "your" feeder drivers has an accident while he was off the feeder path trying to avoid the traffic, the question will be "....and what were you doing off the designated feeder path?".

The accident would be the issue not the path. If your boss is stupid enough to expect you to sit in traffic then do what they want. You'll find that out by having that cya conversation.

Point is communicate when you have something unusual to cya and you'll be fine.

 

[Cole]

My point is mainly for rookies who are out there panicking, and have wayyy more stops than they should, and don't have a clue whether they can get back, and once they do, it may be too late. Or they can't find the pkg at the time, only to find it later, and be accused of being dishonest.

I have seen it happen, even when logic shows that the act was unintentional, but the mngrs are doing some cya of their own, so the driver is out until they can have a hearing at whatever point they have it.

 

[satellitedriver]

You know, all our differences aside…I wish my manager talked and thought like this, we might get along better. Respect on that one suit

I have a center manager like that now.
A by the book iron ass.
Speak to him honestly and he will make the on rode sups make it happen.
He knows the rules I have to work by and knows the rules he has to work by, and enforces them equally.
That is all I can expect and ask from a manager.
PAX

 

[Cole]

Sat, everytime we get a center manager like that they find a way to get rid of them, and bring in someone totally incompetant,

 

[toonertoo]

Tieguy,

You might need to evaluate tooners over allowed, he is making way to much for pushing a wheelbarrow! LOL
Just kidding Tooner!! Get it while you can, RIGHT?

Well me and my little wheelbarrow clocked 11 hours today. It was of course the loaders fault, not dispatch, he only missed it by 20, we had late air, and misloads and air in the load, and tomorrow when Im 2 hrs late, they might want to come out and show me where I lost it..Not
As charming as I am no one wants to ride in the scary neighborhoods at night.....
Including me. Im getting sore from the darn wheelbarrow tho, but it pays well.

 

[satellitedriver]

Sat, everytime we get a center manager like that they find a way to get rid of them, and bring in someone totally incompetant,

He is my 13th center manager.
That's my lucky number.
PAX

 

[FLBROWN1973]

Good luck sups when you have to deal with all the misloads and no shows because all you get to work at one of the 100 top company's in the world is $8.50 an hour for busting your but for 4-5 hours in the morning. They will not stay and drivers will have very bad loads because all you will have working is a bunch of drunks and crack adits who do not care about anything beside a quick fix when they get paid.

As far as tieguy goes must be nice to sit and post on here when you should be on the floor making sure trucks are loaded and ready to go when your drivers get in. Instead you would rather sit in you nice little office and respond to post that were made before we have to get some sleep to make your #'s.

Its great for me to go to work knowing that are trucks are loaded and ready to go 30-45 minutes before are start time. We have some of the best sup's and onroads that any center could ask for as far as I'm concerned. Yes we have bad days but not because are center manager is in his office posting on this site.

This is my 1st contract I like it because I will move up faster alot of old timers in my Building. But I don't like what they will do to the partimers an I think the gps is for the birds. We don't have a 9-5 issue were I'm at so I can't really get into that.

 

[tieguy]

Good luck sups when you have to deal with all the misloads and no shows because all you get to work at one of the 100 top company's in the world is $8.50 an hour for busting your but for 4-5 hours in the morning. They will not stay and drivers will have very bad loads because all you will have working is a bunch of drunks and crack adits who do not care about anything beside a quick fix when they get paid.

In fairness to the issue I think the progression really raises the starting wage by a buck an hour which I personally don't think is high enough.

As far as tieguy goes must be nice to sit and post on here when you should be on the floor making sure trucks are loaded and ready to go when your drivers get in.

And i appreciate the fact that you stepped away from your duties sweeping up the fertilzer being dropped at the local stables to share your insight with us.

nstead you would rather sit in you nice little office and respond to post that were made before we have to get some sleep to make your #'s.

If you want I can leave my nice little office and hold the dust pan for you while you sweep up those horse pies just don't file a grievance on me.

Its great for me to go to work knowing that are trucks are loaded and ready to go 30-45 minutes before are start time. We have some of the best sup's and onroads that any center could ask for as far as I'm concerned. Yes we have bad days but not because are center manager is in his office posting on this site.

Great to know. You love your management crew just hate me. Why because I post on the brown cafe. Interesting point here. And here I thought you bid on the pie sweeper position. You must be the junior man.

This is my 1st contract I like it because I will move up faster alot of old timers in my Building. But I don't like what they will do to the partimers an I think the gps is for the birds. We don't have a 9-5 issue were I'm at so I can't really get into that.

 

[sawdusttv]

Good luck sups when you have to deal with all the misloads and no shows because all you get to work at one of the 100 top company's in the world is $8.50 an hour for busting your but for 4-5 hours in the morning. They will not stay and drivers will have very bad loads because all you will have working is a bunch of drunks and crack adits who do not care about anything beside a quick fix when they get paid.

As far as tieguy goes must be nice to sit and post on here when you should be on the floor making sure trucks are loaded and ready to go when your drivers get in. Instead you would rather sit in you nice little office and respond to post that were made before we have to get some sleep to make your #'s.

Its great for me to go to work knowing that are trucks are loaded and ready to go 30-45 minutes before are start time. We have some of the best sup's and onroads that any center could ask for as far as I'm concerned. Yes we have bad days but not because are center manager is in his office posting on this site.

This is my 1st contract I like it because I will move up faster alot of old timers in my Building. But I don't like what they will do to the partimers an I think the gps is for the birds. We don't have a 9-5 issue were I'm at so I can't really get into that.

I assume that by your avatar (tampa Bay) that you are in the CS pension plan, as am I.
I don't know were your info is coming from, but by your statement you are under the impression that there will be a lot of senior drivers retiring if this contract goes through. That is not the info that I am getting.
I have talked to a lot of senior drivers and every one of them have told me that they would have to stay at least a couple extra years, because the money is not there in this offer. So, you're fooling yourself if you think that there is going to be this mass exodus to allow you to move up. I have 25 years and I am 20th on the seniority list (feeders). From the people senior to me, I will be lucky to move up one spot if it passes, and that is no shoe in.

 

[BrownShark2]

All I hear is bad things about this contrac yet reading it I don't see all these so called givebacks? Lets see we still get a avarge of .75 raise, great insurance and pension with no preimiums, early retirement ages, 20,000 full time jobs.
It you don't like the 9.5 language just sign the 9.5 list, some people like the overtime and some do not, so if you don't want it, sign the list.
Remember UPS is not goverment welfare program,

Pasaholic,

I had to respond to you on this one.. I cant believe that you are a real UPS employee.

you wrote: "All I hear is bad things about this contrac yet reading it I don't see all these so called givebacks?"

Are you serious?? Do you really understand contractual obligations?

Now, I have taken alot of heat for coming after those who "I" believe are on this board only for starting trouble, but with this one, I think you brought up a subject that needs attention.

First, lets address the initial motivation of your question. Givebacks.

On August 1 2002 we started a new contract that was negotiated to end on July 31 2008.

All employees were ENTITLED to this contractual language for the duration of the 6 years, however, with this contract, the Teamters have agreed to GIVEBACK 8 MONTHS of the previous contract. This is the BIGGEST giveback of them all.

The question for YOU is to figure out how this affects THOUSANDS of employees.

With the "new" agreement begining on January 1 2008, ALL NEW employees will lose first year benefits that "they" would have been otherwise entitled to until July 31, 2008.

Think about what this means to the "new" employees. This is huge!

I am not sure if you really understand the ramifications of this giveback. Losing 8 months of our current contract will affect ALL new employees promoted to DRIVER by extending their probations to 60 days and extending their progressions to full pay to 36 months.

Current employees have the right to enforce negotiated language until July 31, 2008 and the Teamster Brass had no right & no authorization from its member/employers to give this back.

I hope you see just what a give back is and does for our brothers and sisters. Expand your perceptions beyond the sups that you seem to be in love with.

Peace.

 

[9c1]

Hi, I was doing some research on the proposed contract today and stumbled across this website. I'm a management employee in the Pacific Northwest (I won't say which hub, for fear of being fired) and I think the contract is a huge step in the wrong direction (toward a cliff.)

My main argument is that it does little or nothing for the part time employees. As everybody knows, the company's foundation is the part time hourlies. They represent over two thirds of the total number of people we employ.

$8.50/hour is a joke by anybody's standards. Do you think $8.50 is reasonable for somebody who is expected to load 350 boxes per hour and never get misloads? Being a part time loader is not an easy job. Sweating profusely for 4 or 5 hours and waking up sore every morning is worth much more than $8.50. People who do similar amounts of physical labor at other jobs would laugh at $8.50. On January 1st minimum wage in Washington State will be $8.07.

Turnover is a huge problem and it's getting worse. At my hub we can't find or keep quality employees. People can, in fact, make a better wage, get benefits, and get tuition reimbursement at a certain hamburger restaurant (although it's a small local chain.) The only reason people end up working here at all is because we'll hire ANYbody; we are desperate, and it's obvious.

By raising the starting wage to $11 or $12 I think most of the turnover problem would be solved. People would actually put in some effort, knowing that they will have to prove to us that they're worth keeping around.

For those that want to work for us to get benefits, the prospect of having to wait a year until they kick in is discouraging to say the least.

During a recent argument I was accused of being a union sympathizer. Not true (although I'm also not a union hater.) The reason I think this contract is garbage is that it's going to hurt the company. Turnover is going to become such a huge problem that we won't be able to staff our operations. There are PDs in my building where every employee is a cornerstone.

I was shocked about the brainwashing that goes on for the full time management employees (and to a lesser degree the part time sups.) Division managers have appeared in meetings 4 times in the past few weeks to sell the contract to us. Full time management people are either completely brainwashed or scared to death of saying anything contrary to what they're instructed to believe, because if the district manager catches wind of it they'll be gone in a heartbeat. And to let you in on what isn't really a secret, all the part time and most of the full time management people think this contract is garbage and that it's going to ruin the company.

Since we are all so well aware of how bad the contract is, I have a theory which could explain somewhat why upper management is so gung ho about it. (Other than because a strike will ruin us.) Loader assist is coming (hourlies won't have to check labels anymore, not that they do already anyway.) Misloads are the single most damaging thing to our reputation. Once loader assist is here, we'll throw any 2 bit employee into a trailer and tell them to just stack packages. There is no shortage of people who want to work for us. I think the plan is to just turn every operation into a revolving door. 9 out of 10 new hires are completely worthless and they will probably quit within a month or two. The one quality employee of the group will go on to be a driver or go into management.

So anyway, that's my 2 cents. I hope to have provided some interesting insight from a frustrated management perspective, and I also hope to engage in some good discussion as I'm sure people will take issue with what I've said. Vote no on the contract if you haven't already.

 

[GSO_Dave]

Hi, I was doing some research on the proposed contract today and stumbled across this website. I'm a management employee in the Pacific Northwest (I won't say which hub, for fear of being fired) and I think the contract is a huge step in the wrong direction (toward a cliff.)

My main argument is that it does little or nothing for the part time employees. As everybody knows, the company's foundation is the part time hourlies. They represent over two thirds of the total number of people we employ.

$8.50/hour is a joke by anybody's standards. Do you think $8.50 is reasonable for somebody who is expected to load 350 boxes per hour and never get misloads? Being a part time loader is not an easy job. Sweating profusely for 4 or 5 hours and waking up sore every morning is worth much more than $8.50. People who do similar amounts of physical labor at other jobs would laugh at $8.50. On January 1st minimum wage in Washington State will be $8.07.

Turnover is a huge problem and it's getting worse. At my hub we can't find or keep quality employees. People can, in fact, make a better wage, get benefits, and get tuition reimbursement at a certain hamburger restaurant (although it's a small local chain.) The only reason people end up working here at all is because we'll hire ANYbody; we are desperate, and it's obvious.

By raising the starting wage to $11 or $12 I think most of the turnover problem would be solved. People would actually put in some effort, knowing that they will have to prove to us that they're worth keeping around.

For those that want to work for us to get benefits, the prospect of having to wait a year until they kick in is discouraging to say the least.

During a recent argument I was accused of being a union sympathizer. Not true (although I'm also not a union hater.) The reason I think this contract is garbage is that it's going to hurt the company. Turnover is going to become such a huge problem that we won't be able to staff our operations. There are PDs in my building where every employee is a cornerstone.

I was shocked about the brainwashing that goes on for the full time management employees (and to a lesser degree the part time sups.) Division managers have appeared in meetings 4 times in the past few weeks to sell the contract to us. Full time management people are either completely brainwashed or scared to death of saying anything contrary to what they're instructed to believe, because if the district manager catches wind of it they'll be gone in a heartbeat. And to let you in on what isn't really a secret, all the part time and most of the full time management people think this contract is garbage and that it's going to ruin the company.

Since we are all so well aware of how bad the contract is, I have a theory which could explain somewhat why upper management is so gung ho about it. (Other than because a strike will ruin us.) Loader assist is coming (hourlies won't have to check labels anymore, not that they do already anyway.) Misloads are the single most damaging thing to our reputation. Once loader assist is here, we'll throw any 2 bit employee into a trailer and tell them to just stack packages. There is no shortage of people who want to work for us. I think the plan is to just turn every operation into a revolving door. 9 out of 10 new hires are completely worthless and they will probably quit within a month or two. The one quality employee of the group will go on to be a driver or go into management.

So anyway, that's my 2 cents. I hope to have provided some interesting insight from a frustrated management perspective, and I also hope to engage in some good discussion as I'm sure people will take issue with what I've said. Vote no on the contract if you haven't already.

Wow...a UPS supervisor, not a Stupidvisor...

Nice "essay" by the way...

 

[FromBluetoBrown]

Wow...a UPS supervisor, not a Stupidvisor...

Nice "essay" by the way...

Management going for a Yes vote? Did I wonder into the Twilight Zone?

 

[BrownShark2]

Hi, I was doing some research on the proposed contract today and stumbled across this website. I'm a management employee in the Pacific Northwest (I won't say which hub, for fear of being fired) and I think the contract is a huge step in the wrong direction (toward a cliff.)

My main argument is that it does little or nothing for the part time employees. As everybody knows, the company's foundation is the part time hourlies. They represent over two thirds of the total number of people we employ.

$8.50/hour is a joke by anybody's standards. Do you think $8.50 is reasonable for somebody who is expected to load 350 boxes per hour and never get misloads? Being a part time loader is not an easy job. Sweating profusely for 4 or 5 hours and waking up sore every morning is worth much more than $8.50. People who do similar amounts of physical labor at other jobs would laugh at $8.50. On January 1st minimum wage in Washington State will be $8.07.

Turnover is a huge problem and it's getting worse. At my hub we can't find or keep quality employees. People can, in fact, make a better wage, get benefits, and get tuition reimbursement at a certain hamburger restaurant (although it's a small local chain.) The only reason people end up working here at all is because we'll hire ANYbody; we are desperate, and it's obvious.

By raising the starting wage to $11 or $12 I think most of the turnover problem would be solved. People would actually put in some effort, knowing that they will have to prove to us that they're worth keeping around.

For those that want to work for us to get benefits, the prospect of having to wait a year until they kick in is discouraging to say the least.

During a recent argument I was accused of being a union sympathizer. Not true (although I'm also not a union hater.) The reason I think this contract is garbage is that it's going to hurt the company. Turnover is going to become such a huge problem that we won't be able to staff our operations. There are PDs in my building where every employee is a cornerstone.

I was shocked about the brainwashing that goes on for the full time management employees (and to a lesser degree the part time sups.) Division managers have appeared in meetings 4 times in the past few weeks to sell the contract to us. Full time management people are either completely brainwashed or scared to death of saying anything contrary to what they're instructed to believe, because if the district manager catches wind of it they'll be gone in a heartbeat. And to let you in on what isn't really a secret, all the part time and most of the full time management people think this contract is garbage and that it's going to ruin the company.

Since we are all so well aware of how bad the contract is, I have a theory which could explain somewhat why upper management is so gung ho about it. (Other than because a strike will ruin us.) Loader assist is coming (hourlies won't have to check labels anymore, not that they do already anyway.) Misloads are the single most damaging thing to our reputation. Once loader assist is here, we'll throw any 2 bit employee into a trailer and tell them to just stack packages. There is no shortage of people who want to work for us. I think the plan is to just turn every operation into a revolving door. 9 out of 10 new hires are completely worthless and they will probably quit within a month or two. The one quality employee of the group will go on to be a driver or go into management.

So anyway, that's my 2 cents. I hope to have provided some interesting insight from a frustrated management perspective, and I also hope to engage in some good discussion as I'm sure people will take issue with what I've said. Vote no on the contract if you haven't already.

9C1,

Now here's a view from outside the box. I think we can agree on your entire post, forward thinking is what this company lacks.

Indeed, the current new hires are well below the desirable employees. Turnover is a huge factor as the newbies coming in couldnt care less if they stay 1 month or 1 year.

The pay isnt enough to keep their attention on a career or turn them into "business partners".

In my area, the Division Manager has made the wonderful business decision to put "new hires" into the SPA clerk positions.

Here, these newbies have NO IDEA how the placement of the label affects the business.

What ends up happening is the PAS label ends up over the address or over the bar code or even better yet; over the C.O.D. amount and when you try and peel it off, it takes the cod amount with it..!

These positions are critical to the operation and yet, UPS keeps putting the least qualified into positions that jeopardize the ops.

9c1, great post and great insight. I admire your "forward looking" perspective.

Peace.

 

[diesel96]

So anyway, that's my 2 cents. I hope to have provided some interesting insight from a frustrated management perspective, and I also hope to engage in some good discussion as I'm sure people will take issue with what I've said. Vote no on the contract if you haven't already.

The only thing I take issue with is your status in Mngmt....
Although well written post..I'll give you that. Look at the other side of the coin, with a "no vote" you won't have to worry about "new hires" for a while with their extinction from a threat of a strike and a volume drop. Seems like a lose-lose situation for new hires anyway you look at it. Should I care? Yes, maybe more than I should, but many and myself included paid our dues way back when and after 20 back breaking years ended up in the driver seat of a Feeder Truck. Easy Money baby, but earned by commitment and resiliency.